News Article: Jake Gardiner and the Toronto Maple Leafs blueline

[King85Kong]

Bozak is young tho

This made my day. Thanks for the laugh good sir.

 

[Pholus]

The player that fits this description is Jake, no one else on the Leafs.

No one else would benefit more from a longer leash on our defence than Jake.

Gardiner was the definition of a rover when this team collapsed. He was in the offensive zone just as much as the defensive zone, at times more.

Isn't this a good thing? It's not like he cherry-picked, he was in the offensive zone when the puck was also there. This seems like pretty good defense, even if the Leafs didn't have possession of the puck and were forechecking to try to win it back.

 

[Hockey Talker29]

Bozak is young tho

Nothing like catching someone in a clear contradiction. Well done!

 

[Menzinger]

Isn't this a good thing? It's not like he cherry-picked, he was in the offensive zone when the puck was also there. This seems like pretty good defense, even if the Leafs didn't have possession of the puck and were forechecking to try to win it back.

Exactly. Good teams win games by maintaining possession of the puck in the offensive zone - something that Jake Gardiner excels at.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Isn't this a good thing? It's not like he cherry-picked, he was in the offensive zone when the puck was also there. This seems like pretty good defense, even if the Leafs didn't have possession of the puck and were forechecking to try to win it back.

We were behind a lot during the collaspe, part of the reason why he and Rielly played a lot more down the stretch.

If we were protecting the lead, Gardiner would not be one of the first options to put out there. We know what happens when he and Franson are protecting a lead.

 

[King85Kong]

Exactly. Good teams win games by maintaining possession of the puck in the offensive zone - something that Jake Gardiner excels at.

Yes they do. Gardiner is a beast with the puck. The guy can clear the zone with ease. Just has to be careful with trying to do to much. But that will come with experience. Would be absolutely foolish to get rid of him.

 

[diceman934]

Thread is about Gardiner, one can claim if any of our D played more as a high forward last year it was him. And he is young, is this not true?

I'm not claiming anything.....I'm telling you....it was Franson Carlyle was talking about.

You have conveniently ignored everything except two words....young and rover. Franson is young.....his age and experience would support that. Otherwise he is a vet....I will do what you do: A veteran (from Latin vetus, meaning "old")[1] is a person who has had long service or experience in a particular occupation or field; " A veteran of ..." .[2] That is not Franson.

I provide proof of just who has a high opinion of themselves.....in his own words, which you have ignored.

Franson played like a high forward at the start of the season....pinching, standing still and leaving the D zone early as well as supporting the puck in the D zone above the puck. Carlyle called that playing like a rover.

 

[diceman934]

We were behind a lot during the collaspe, part of the reason why he and Rielly played a lot more down the stretch.

If we were protecting the lead, Gardiner would not be one of the first options to put out there. We know what happens when he and Franson are protecting a lead.

You would be right if his ice time only came late in games..however Gardiner was played a lot in all 3 periods...He was also moved to the top unit of the PP as well, something you do not do unless he is the better option.

You can not take it that Gardiner played good and as a person who does not like him, you are seen as grasping at straws to attack him.

 

[Purity*]

You would be right if his ice time only came late in games..however Gardiner was played a lot in all 3 periods...He was also moved to the top unit of the PP as well, something you do not do unless he is the better option.

You can not take it that Gardiner played good and as a person who does not like him, you are seen as grasping at straws to attack him.

He's clearly lost the argument and he just won't admit it. Pretty typical of him actually.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I'm not claiming anything.....I'm telling you....it was Franson Carlyle was talking about.

You have conveniently ignored everything except two words....young and rover. Franson is young.....his age and experience would support that. Otherwise he is a vet....I will do what you do: A veteran (from Latin vetus, meaning "old")[1] is a person who has had long service or experience in a particular occupation or field; " A veteran of ..." .[2] That is not Franson.

I provide proof of just who has a high opinion of themselves.....in his own words, which you have ignored.

Franson played like a high forward at the start of the season....pinching, standing still and leaving the D zone early as well as supporting the puck in the D zone above the puck. Carlyle called that playing like a rover.

Does this sound like a 26 year old Franson?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rover_(ice_hockey)

Rover(Ice Hockey)

The term is sometimes used to informally describe fast, rushing offensive defencemen, such as former NHL star Scott Niedermayer, as they often roam the ice creating offensive pressure instead of being simply "blueliners".

The term is also used to describe the extra attacker, who roams the ice instead of assuming their usual positions

Doesn't sound like Franson does it? Plus Franson is 26, 27 this year. He wouldn't be termed a young defenceman. Just as 26 year old Niklas Hjalmarsson would not be called a young rover.

Carlyle never said it was Franson, if you can provide a quote he did, I'd like to see it. Until then you can speculate all you want. Most know the only player that fits the description of benefitting from a longer leash, and a young player that played like rover last year is, Jake Gardiner.

 

[Hockey Talker29]

Lol @ quoting your own definition as evidence.

I'm surprised this topic has gone on so long.

We'll likely know the answer to this mid-way through the off-season. Odds are that the player Carlyle was actually referring to won't be back with us next season.

 

[diceman934]

Does this sound like a 26 year old Franson?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rover_(ice_hockey)

Rover(Ice Hockey)


Doesn't sound like Franson does it? Plus Franson is 26, 27 this year. He wouldn't be termed a young defenceman. Just as 26 year old Niklas Hjalmarsson would not be called a young rover.

Carlyle never said it was Franson, if you can provide a quote he did, I'd like to see it. Until then you can speculate all you want. Most know the only player that fits the description of benefitting from a longer leash, and a young player that played like rover last year is, Jake Gardiner.

Done....nothing more to add other then repeating my self

 

[Diatomic]

Bozak is young tho

 

[King85Kong]

This thread has turned into a pissing match, that neither side can prove. And honestly who cares. Isn't it better to talk about the player himself? Enough pro's and con's to discuss, rather then clouding it with a vague comment.

 

[pooleboy]

Can you provide a link that it was Gardiner.....no.
Also to be clear....I would prefer that you did not change the meaning of the words that Carlyle used to try and make it sound like you are right. Carlyle never said or inferred that the player in question would benefit from a longer leash....never. He stated the following: “One example,†he said. “A young defenceman playing a rover style of hockey at the start versus more conservative at the end of year, felt the leash afforded him early in the season was not as long as the one at the end. The coach said ‘if you’d have played longer (in the NHL), you would’ve had a longer leash’. It was a chicken-and-egg thing.

“It was kind of a surprise who he compared himself with in the league. That was shockingâ€.

Now just who was playing a more conservative style at the end? Also who had a long leash at the start of the year?

Neither of those are describing Gardiner...remember Gardiner was not playing as much at the start of the year as well as was healthy scratched, that is a short leash, not a long leash.

At seasons end Franson was not playing as much as he did at the start.....he played under his season average minutes 19 times in his last 25 games and substantial less in many.

Again I posted a link that clearly shows who had a high opinion about himself.....can you post a link that shows that Jake has a high opinion about him self....no, it does not exist!

dont waste ur time man, kadri and gardiner are the problem and bozak is a god

as far as im concerned the only players that shouldn't be traded are: jvr (contract unless u get a deal u cant refuse) rielly (unless were getting mackinnon/mcdavid back) and bernier (franchise goalie... do i need to explain)

kadri and gardiner shouldn't be traded as well as they are building pieces for long term success, unless we are getting the moon+ the stars they should grow and develop here..... people forget that it will take short-term pain for longterm success and all the leafs try and do is shortterm gain and it never pays off. ship out kessel/bozak/phaneuf/gunner/lupul and clarkson if u can and start from scratch let younger players make mistakes and grow and build ur franchise with some VETERANS i hate how nonis still calls this team the youngest in the league when its because they have no seasoned vets on it.

 

[diceman934]

dont waste ur time man, kadri and gardiner are the problem and bozak is a god

as far as im concerned the only players that shouldn't be traded are: jvr (contract unless u get a deal u cant refuse) rielly (unless were getting mackinnon/mcdavid back) and bernier (franchise goalie... do i need to explain)

kadri and gardiner shouldn't be traded as well as they are building pieces for long term success, unless we are getting the moon+ the stars they should grow and develop here..... people forget that it will take short-term pain for longterm success and all the leafs try and do is shortterm gain and it never pays off. ship out kessel/bozak/phaneuf/gunner/lupul and clarkson if u can and start from scratch let younger players make mistakes and grow and build ur franchise with some VETERANS i hate how nonis still calls this team the youngest in the league when its because they have no seasoned vets on it.

I deleted the above post, as I was for the most part repeating my self....I agree that we should build around our good young players who still have upside or have proven themselves......the rest can go and I would not miss them.....hell you can trade them all if we are getting a better return than we are giving up..I am a Leaf fan first and a fan of a certain player second!

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Done....nothing more to add other then repeating my self

What did Franson say in this article that makes you think he has a high regard for himself?

Because he doesn't think he should be a healthy scratch? This is your whole premise of Franson having a high regard for himself?

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2011/10/12/frustrated-franson-grows-tired-of-waiting/

Is this your proof? What NHL player doesn't think he is good enough to be in the lineup 3 years ago by the way, under Ron Wilson

If you think I am wrong that it is almost 100% Carlyle was talking about Gardiner. I have a lot of reporters that think the same thing.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs...randy_carlyle_for_leafs_collapse_dimanno.html

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2014...afs-randy-carlyle-must-change-with-the-times/

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs...ch_randy_carlyle_picks_over_a_bad_season.html

BTW, you never answered my question, does rover by it's hockey definition fit Franson? All all these news paper reports conclude it was Gardiner Carlyle was talking about, not one points to Franson.

 

[Cor]

Most know it was Franson.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Most know it was Franson.

Define most?

 

[Cor]

Define most?

anyone who listened to what he said, and didn't just go "LOL CARLYLE HATES GARDINER!"

Tell me again how some writers said it was Gardiner. These are the same writers that shoved the "Free Gardiner" stuff down our throats and kept telling us how Carlyle hates Gardiner, yet Carlyle himself, along with a couple people around him has said it is the polar opposite and he loves the guy

 

[Duke Silver]

I'll just leave this here:

“There’s this perception that Randy doesn’t like Jake Gardiner, and it’s comical,†Gordon told The Globe and Mail in an interview. “I can’t tell you how many times that Randy has said that the thought of trading Jake can’t even be discussed until he’s played 300 games.â

 

[The Winter Soldier]

anyone who listened to what he said, and didn't just go "LOL CARLYLE HATES GARDINER!"

Tell me again how some writers said it was Gardiner. These are the same writers that shoved the "Free Gardiner" stuff down our throats and kept telling us how Carlyle hates Gardiner, yet Carlyle himself, along with a couple people around him has said it is the polar opposite and he loves the guy

Not everyone that listened came to the conclusion that you think is most.

Not one reporter or media person I have seen or read said it was anyone other than Gardiner, and some had a front row seat in that interview.

As for your last statement, Oates defended Ovie for his back checking, no coach is going to say they hate a player publicly, they only praise them.

Carlyle didn't even have a bad thing to say about Grabovski after the expletive rant. Did he? In 1 1/2 years of coaching him he had nothing but good things to say about Mikhail publicly.

In the back room, we know that was different when Nonis bought him out.

Which brings me to this similar point, maybe Jake's time is up too.

 

[King85Kong]

I'll just leave this here:
“There’s this perception that Randy doesn’t like Jake Gardiner, and it’s comical,†Gordon told The Globe and Mail in an interview. “I can’t tell you how many times that Randy has said that the thought of trading Jake can’t even be discussed until he’s played 300 games.â€

Well that settles that. Mods I think this thread has run its course.

 

[Cor]

Not everyone that listened came to the conclusion that you think is most.

Not one reporter or media person I have seen or read said it was anyone other than Gardiner, and some had a front row seat in that interview.

As for your last statement, Oates defended Ovie for his back checking, no coach is going to say they hate a player publicly but praise them. Carlyle didn't even have a bad thing to say about Grabovski after the expletive rant. Did he?

Again, these are the same reporters that threw the idea that Carlyle hates Gardiner down our throats, of course they will say it's Gardiner because it's a story. Where they were when it was said doesn't matter.

What does Oates, Ovie or Grabovski have to do with this? Why would Carlyle say anything about Grabo? He isn't his player, so he doesn't care what he says.

Like, the only argument for it being Gardiner is the word "rover" even though, it could loosely fit Franson as well.

 

[Teeder9]

Not everyone that listened came to the conclusion that you think is most.

Not one reporter or media person I have seen or read said it was anyone other than Gardiner, and some had a front row seat in that interview.

As for your last statement, Oates defended Ovie for his back checking, no coach is going to say they hate a player publicly but praise them. Carlyle didn't even have a bad thing to say about Grabovski after the expletive rant. Did he?

That's the difference between us and them. We can only hear the video of everything he said, whereas they hear something else because they're closer. Acoustic dynamics at play. if only there was a way to stop them from changing the words through sound and video at this distance. That way we could all be right, and not just the ones 10 feet away.