DL44
Status quo
Ok... I look forward to checking who the best defensive forwards for other teams are based on that criteria. Or our 2011 team.
Player Discussion Jake "Big Tuna" Virtanen | XVII Nikolaj Who...?
- Thread starter ProstheticConscience
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Ok... I look forward to checking who the best defensive forwards for other teams are based on that criteria. Or our 2011 team.
VibinCanuck
No doubt about it, I am ready to get hurt again
And nothing will change that, take that up on the people who drafted him.
Having a reasonable expectation for Jake is fine and hoping he makes the NHL is fine too.
I hope he figures it out, he has the talent to be good. I don't think he has the hockey sense to become great in the NHL sadly.
DL44
Status quo
y2kcanucks
Better than you
With a GA/60 of 2.98, by far worst on the team? Absolutely not. Also, outside of the Sedins he took the fewest amount of defensive zone draws. But hey, feel free to ignore those key points. Who needs facts when we can make up our own narratives?
DL44
Status quo
I wasn't ignoring those key facts... I was looking at his "CA/60, his CARELTeam, his CF%RelTeam" like you specifically pointed to.... you know - the 'facts' behind your logic for why Gaunce was our best defensive forward. I just happened to notice Granlund is right there with him in every one of them.
Why you keep moving goalposts?
I think you need to ask yourself... how meaningful are cherrypicking those specific stats you did to make an argument for Gaunce, when someone as 'defensively sucky' as Granlund is right there with him. Try again.
This is at least a good lesson and great example for people on misusing and misinterpreting data/advanced stats.
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stampedingviking
Registered User
You're not the only one who thinks that.
Whether they will actually admit it is another thing, though.
me2
Go ahead foot
I'd like to see some of the posts where people want Virtanen to fail as opposed to expecting him to fail. Those are two completely different things. I'd first like to see if any actually exists and the context of they do.
NoRaise4Brackett
But Brackett!!!
I barely saw any of him in the AHL. I can't wait to see him at camp. I knew he was going to be a project at the time we drafted him, but was hoping he'd be able to develope in the NHL. Sadly it didn't happen, but I look at his last season like he was someone who had to completely change the way he plays and trains. In the NHL he floated too much, kind of shot from anywhere, and then showed up to the next camp in bad shape. I'm hoping he comes into camp in great shape and with a little more mature game, but I wouldn't be surprised if it took him another season or two, to really adapt to the pro game.
It does look as though he'll never have the highest hockey IQ, but the tools are still there and I think there is hope for him.
It does look as though he'll never have the highest hockey IQ, but the tools are still there and I think there is hope for him.
me2
Go ahead foot
Maybe I'll regret weighing in...
You know that is an impossible thing to prove definitively. Nobody can be in someone else's head. The interpretation, I'm guessing, is based on the fact that some posters will emphasize every negative point and either ignore every positive point or spin it into something negative. It certainly comes off as disingenuous, at the very least. And, because these points are subjective, there really is no arguing it except to do the eye roll.
That said, the opposite is also true. In some cases every positive point is emphasize and every negative ignored.
David Bruce Banner
Acid Raven Bed Burn
me2
Go ahead foot
y2kcanucks
Better than you
I'm not moving the goal posts at all. You're the one who's ignoring the facts. You conveniently ignore the goal based metrics that I mention, as well as deployment. Deployment adds context to these numbers, and you're conveniently choosing to ignore that.
DL44
Status quo
And you are ignoring how sheltered Gaunce was. Stop acting like he was used in a shut down role. It's ridiculous.
CloutierForVezina
Registered User
I don't know a single person who wants Virtanen to fail, only people who believe that's what will happen. Big difference.
I want nothing more than to eat a truckload of crow on Virtanen. I want him to become the 30/30 speedy power forward that his optimistic pre draft scouting reports pegged as his ceiling.
I've been wrong on lots of prospects before and I'll be wrong on lots more in the future. It does my ego no harm by adding one more to the pile and if I'm going to be wrong, I might as well be wrong in a way that helps the team I like.
I want nothing more than to eat a truckload of crow on Virtanen. I want him to become the 30/30 speedy power forward that his optimistic pre draft scouting reports pegged as his ceiling.
I've been wrong on lots of prospects before and I'll be wrong on lots more in the future. It does my ego no harm by adding one more to the pile and if I'm going to be wrong, I might as well be wrong in a way that helps the team I like.
y2kcanucks
Better than you
Gaunce was sheltered by playing with crappy linemates? Or was Gaunce sheltered by his 34.7% D-zone start (vs. 25.9% O-zone)?
Opposition CF% and Opposition CF/60 differences were negligible between the top and bottom on our team.
Was he facing the stiffest competition? No. But I wouldn't exactly say he was intentionally sheltered either. He was put on a 4th line role with crappy teammates, and he performed very well defensively relative to how poor his teammates were.
While it's nice to see Jake working his tail off in the gym, I wish he would find time for on ice skills training. He should have been doing a lot of both this summer IMO
Pavel96
Registered User
- Apr 7, 2015
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Is there a difference (im asking) between wanting someone to fail and being amused/making jokes when they do? I think if it's someone like Hutton who seems happy go lucky and just a nice goofy guy you'd feel a little bad to hear if they failed. But when it's someone who gives people a different vibe or an image of someone who in public opinion may not be as worthy of success - and you see those people fail - I think there is a good majority that seem to revel in the failure. But I guess that's the risk of marketing yourself etc.
DL44
Status quo
Enough to qualify him as the best defensive forward on the team last yr?
Get outta here.
y2kcanucks
Better than you
Best defensive C, but sure. Considering how poor defensively our other C's were, why not?
m9
m9
- Jan 23, 2010
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Agreed that the other centers were poor defensively, but how often did Gaunce even play center last year?
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