I really dont see Virtanen being a more than 25 to 30 points player. He may have a career season in the 40 points range but most seasons he will be in the 25 to 30 points range
Player Discussion Jake "Big Tuna" Virtanen | XVII Nikolaj Who...?
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Agreed 100%. The change in his play this year is definitely because Jake has been given a simple mandate which he actually gets. If this continues to work, he certainly has the tools to be an NHL player.
Botchford said:
Agreed 100%. The change in his play this year is definitely because Jake has been given a simple mandate which he actually gets. If this continues to work, he certainly has the tools to be an NHL player.
I watched the highlight of the goal he scored in Minny and he had his head up the whole way, looking pass and then took the shot. Thats a good sign of progress.
On the other hand, he could be tracking the same way as Shane Doan, another high WHL draft pick who got off to a slow start....couldn't crack 10 goals in his first few years in the league but then morphed into a 25-35 goal scorer and eventually all-world for the Coyotes....could happen.
DL44
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If he keeps playing like a bull, he'll lead our team this yr in scoring.
Got rewarded with a little taste of PP time already.. much more to be earned yet.
His first step is incredible.
From a stand still in front of the net to the corners for a loose puck is like... wow.
He's kept a lot of possessions alive for the team. His back check is disruptive. Kid is moving his feet nicely... and consistently.
Got rewarded with a little taste of PP time already.. much more to be earned yet.
His first step is incredible.
From a stand still in front of the net to the corners for a loose puck is like... wow.
He's kept a lot of possessions alive for the team. His back check is disruptive. Kid is moving his feet nicely... and consistently.
Hollywood Burrows
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He shot the puck directly into the dman's shinpads. 99% of the time the puck would deflect into the corner or end up in the other team's possession. It was a lucky play.
Jake is trying really hard and skating a lot. He's no longer the complete disaster he was 12 months ago. But he's still headed for a career as a bottom-6 grinder, at best. The talent is not there.
Wo Yorfat
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Pip
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This is also the way that I see him, and considering how poor he was tracking since being drafted, this has been quite the turnaround for him. Wrong pick obviously (and that's been beaten to death) but he has really improved drastically and could be an effective player for the Canucks going forward. I hope that he maintains a level of consistency throughout the season, especially in the forecheck and shot generation. He seems to be more a volume shooter, but could benefit from using his size and driving the middle more to get higher percentage shots.
Overall a very encouraging start to this season, considering his performance last year, and is much better than I expected.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion but why so definitive? There is a large range of possible outcomes still. He has an unique skill set and looks like a great complementary piece with two aging skilled players. Why would this skill set not be useful in the top 6. He may be in the top 6 5 on 5 in a few weeks the way he is going. He needs to be developed pp wise to breakout point wise but he could easily become better than Hansen who I guess could be considered a bottom six grinder but still a valuable player. I see great potential still with Virtanen he is only playing 10 minutes a game and having an impact. No reason he cannot play 15 minutes and put up more numbers.
Canucks LB
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What I like about him is his drive and push he is showing, especially the moment he has the puck.
He grabs it and just goes, confidence maybe? or just figured out a bit how to play in this league, who knows.
I am just enjoying watching him play, that is good enough for me atm.
Who knows what he becomes.
He grabs it and just goes, confidence maybe? or just figured out a bit how to play in this league, who knows.
I am just enjoying watching him play, that is good enough for me atm.
Who knows what he becomes.
rune74
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I think he will have to put up a lot of points for a few seasons before some here come around on him. He is doing well now, I'm hoping he keeps it going.
A lot of posters totally wrote him off last year, it will take time for that to change.
A lot of posters totally wrote him off last year, it will take time for that to change.
Addison Rae
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People rightfully wrote him off last year too, he looked awful and like a lost prospect. He looks like a completely differently player this year, but these "I told you so" posts are a bit premature don't you think?
rune74
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Where did you see a "I told you so" post?
The hoping he keeps going?
He was way to young to be completely written off last year. It was and still is a premature reaction to a prospect.
Addison Rae
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He looked like a lost prospect last year, and looks like a completely different player this year. It was 100% fine to call him a failure of a 6th overall pick last season, and by comparison to the guys picked around him he still is. That doesn't mean he can't be an effective NHL player going forward.
Have you been reading my posts from last season? Ha ha
It wasn't the criticism that was the issue IMO. He clearly didn't perform as hoped for a 6th overall pick. And those who promoted Ehlers and Nylander had every right to say I told you so. It was the "bust" label and the "no prospect who performs like he has in his draft+3 year has ever made it". It was incessant and way over the top. All before he turned 21.
To be fair, very few have succeeded with a development path like Jake’s.
A good (not elite) draft year.
A worse D+1 in junior.
An ok 1st WJC.
An up and down D+2 NHL season with limited deployment by his coach.
A poor 2nd WJC.
A poor D+3 training camp.
An unproductive AHL season.
Until this preseason every season of Jake’s was worse than the previous. The overwhelming outcome for a prospect with 3 consecutive years of poor play is to not become a good NHLer. If he goes on to become one he is the 1 in 100 unicorn that does so.
I think the narrative was biased...more group think than substantiated. All the things that you list are defensible. But there are counter arguments that didn't get nearly the play because they didn't fit the majority of the noise. A 10 goal pace at the NHL level as a 19 year old, for example, was reasonable, including a stretch that showed some significant promise. Did he take a step back? Absolutely. But the reasons were definable, out of shape, head issues. There certainly wasn't any guarantee he would "snap out of it" and there still is a chance this is as good as we'll see. I just refuse to write off players who are 20 years old and will always suggest caution when making dramatic assessments one way or the other.
That’s fine but your viewpoint is more irrational than the viewpoint of those who viewed his trajectory as being unlikely to lead to a good outcome. You ignored probability while others merely went with it.
And to be clear, I defended him vigorously through his D+1 and D+2 seasons but by his D+3 I couldn’t do so any more. I was guilty of too much optimism in my defense of him and in hindsight I should have been more critical earlier. Even with his recent bump in play factored in.
I disagree with your rationality assessment and I think you're too hard on yourself there CanaFan.
The fact is that Virtanen's NHL rookie season as a whole and especially post WJC was encouraging. His offensive production wasn't anything special, but his possession and defensive stats were surprisingly good. I mean for a player who wasn't particularly known for being good defensively or good on the boards, the underlying numbers he put up were surprising. Of course, last season, he was surprisingly bad. He put up the same goal and point totals as Wacey Hamilton, albeit in 2 less games. Nobody expected him to produce that little at the AHL level.
But the truth is that early NHL contributions or lack thereof is simply not that reliable of a predictor of how a player's NHL career will turn out. And for a player like Virtanen, who has displayed encouraging NHL ability before, it's unreasonable to write him off after a poor season. "Sophomore slump" has always existed.
Not really irrational. It's just not accepting conclusions based on statistically insignificant data. It's actually the definition of rational. Trends are interesting to talk about. That doesn't mean they are statistically relevant.
BROCK HUGHES
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I disagree. Yes his NHL rookie season had some good possession metrics but we are in a league where 18 and 19 year old players are stepping in and producing offense immediately. Look at Tkachuk, Keller, and Sergachev from 2016. Or Konecny, Werenski, Provorov, and Marner from 2015. It Ehlers and Nylander from 2014. “Good” rookie seasons are more than just a handful of points and some possession stats. It’s harsh maybe but that’s the standard, esp for a high pick.
But I’ll grant that if he had built off of that season then people would have viewed it as a decent starting point. But for him to fall flat at camp last year put his rookie season in a more negative light and really cast his entire NHL future into doubt.
Now I’m as glad as anyone that he’s shown as well as he has this year but any criticism or loss of faith that went his way last year was entirely rational and deserved. Now maybe it wasn’t generous or kind to do so - you seem to have more “faith” that things would work out - but I don’t blame anyone for their harsh opinions after last year.
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