Player Discussion Jake "Big Tuna" Virtanen | XVII Nikolaj Who...?

[M2Beezy]

Well, it wouldn't be the first time you are dead wrong about a player.

Hopefully

 

[rune74]

Another good writeup:

https://canucksarmy.com/2017/09/30/does-jake-virtanen-deserve-to-be-on-the-canucks-opening-roster/

 

[M2Beezy]

Another good writeup:

https://canucksarmy.com/2017/09/30/does-jake-virtanen-deserve-to-be-on-the-canucks-opening-roster/

Interesting article thanks for sharing. Im rooting for Jake that writeup is VERY encouraging

 

[Zarpan]

He just doesn't have the high-end hockey sense to ever be a top line player. Best case scenario is poor mans, Chris Kreider.

Kreider was knocked for having "terrible hockey sense" at 20, so it does seem possible to improve hockey sense by a fair bit. Probably will never be a great strength, but average to good hockey sense plus those tools would result in a pretty decent player.

 

[bossram]

Yeah, he's back to doing the stuff he was doing well a couple years ago, it's certainly an improvement relative to last season.

Unfortunately you just don't learn hockey sense at age 20 trying to make an NHL team. It doesn't work like that. But at least now he's working and hustling and looks like he might salvage an NHL career.

His rookie season was pretty encouraging. And it looks like has some confidence again. He has some very good tools. But it'll be up to him and the coaches to get the best out of those tools.

I think JV will be a solid NHLer. I actually wrote a blog post sometime after his rookie season about that...haha. And this is coming from someone who absolutely hated the pick at the time. He'll never live up to his draft status (or who we passed on), but I think his probably outcome is some kind of prime Torres/Booth hybrid, which wouldn't be too bad.

 

[Zaddy91]

I definitely don't agree. As much as it isn't necessarily nice to say, poster who have developed a reputation as good talent evaluators over years of posting (like orcatown and MS and others) have opinions that I take more seriously than most others.

All these posters have the same opinion, hockey is hockey a player plays a certain way and you identify with their description. certain fans don't write players off permanently real simple lol

 

[F A N]

He just doesn't have the high-end hockey sense to ever be a top line player. Best case scenario is poor mans, Chris Kreider.

The thing is traditionally, "nose for the net" was a popular description. If a player knows how to position himself to score garbage goals or be in position to score and that player does score a lot of goals, then no one cares whether his hockey sense is high end.

The type of game Green wants him to play can be taught. It's like what the recently linked articles stated. Virtanen is capable of having strong possession numbers. He works hard on the back check and you can teach him where to position himself and where to go on the ice to maximize his gifts. Take his rookie year here, his underlying numbers were good. Had he scored a few more goals his rookie year would have looked a whole lot more successful.

 

[BROCK HUGHES]

He just doesn't have the high-end hockey sense to ever be a top line player. Best case scenario is poor mans, Chris Kreider.

No he has enough hockey sense to make this team,has shown the hard work,and has had a great pre season,,6pts in 6 games.Its really funny all the haters are just so happy now..i have allways liked the pick,and have never given up on him.so happy for JV.Best case scenario,,15 goals this season to start.

 

[farshi]

No he has enough hockey sense to make this team,has shown the hard work,and has had a great pre season,,6pts in 6 games.Its really funny all the haters are just so happy now..i have allways liked the pick,and have never given up on him.so happy for JV.Best case scenario,,15 goals this season to start.

Though I think if you look at this pre season as a stand alone he has earned the right to be on the opening day roster but if you look at last year and his lack of production at the AHL level and how he hasn't produced at a high level in 3 years (since junior) I'd like to see him down in the AHL even if for a short period to show offensive production (in meaningful games not pre-season) whether that be 10 games, 20 games whatever as long as he not only is putting up numbers but also looking like a top prospect playing in the AHL (ex. Nylander).

 

[DL44]

No he has enough hockey sense to make this team,has shown the hard work,and has had a great pre season,,6pts in 6 games.Its really funny all the haters are just so happy now..i have allways liked the pick,and have never given up on him.so happy for JV.Best case scenario,,15 goals this season to start.

I see 20-20...
He’ll work his way up the lineup... unless the lines above him gel cohesively also... which .. well .. you know...

 

[Tv9924]

Played very well yesterday, hopefully his ice time increases. If he comes out for Boeser next game I'm going to f***ing scream.

 

[scorvat53]

Played very well yesterday, hopefully his ice time increases. If he comes out for Boeser next game I'm going to ****ing scream.

Thats whats probably going to happen lol.

 

[terrible dee]

Chosen? Not sure we should be characterizing these kids getting drafted, as them choosing a career. To be frank, he was a kid, playing a game he was damn good at when the NHL that came calling.

All I am saying is that there is a lot of pressure on these kids.. and yes they are kids... some have the maturity of a Sydney Crosby at an early age, and some never mature... from what we have seen from Jake over the last year, he looks like he used the time to develop as a young man. I am not suggesting that the kid is ready for the NHL yet, but I would hope that fans look at a different player in camp this year, one that appears to have learned a thing or two. What else can we ask of him at this point? It is a huge step in the right direction...

Good god,

The "Victim-think" mentality people have these days is nauseating.

JAKE MADE A CHOICE, IT WAS TO PURSUE HOCKEY......THE END

He was some sweet kid playing road hockey when Gary Bettman drove up and offered him candy if he'd get in the car? No

Sad thing is, that people who actually HAVE been victimized get a bad rep because of people trying to use it as a disingenuous excuse for their own bad decisions.

Jake deserves ALL The criticism he received up until this preseason.

Jake deserves ALL the credit for showing up ready to rock this year (He might credit others like his parents, but you'd have to ask him about that)

 

[terrible dee]

Played very well yesterday, hopefully his ice time increases. If he comes out for Boeser next game I'm going to ****ing scream.

Try some hot tea with honey to loosen your vocal cords

 

[LeftCoast]

I was a big fan of the pick at the time - although I would have been just as happy with Nylander or Ehlers. At the time, I figured Jake would make the team in a 3rd/4th line role and over the course of a couple of seasons would work his way up to the top line.

I think a lot of people forget that Jake's rookie season was pretty good in spite of the quirky, veteran heavy deployment the coach preferred. Last season was admittedly a disaster for Virtanen, but I never used the word bust and held out hope that he would figure it out because his skill level is very high. So I am really happy to see him showing so much progress. If he can play most nights the way he played on Saturday night the goals and promotion up the line up will come. But he's still young and inconsistency is a characteristic of players his age, and power forwards in particular.

 

[rune74]

Good god,

The "Victim-think" mentality people have these days is nauseating.

JAKE MADE A CHOICE, IT WAS TO PURSUE HOCKEY......THE END

He was some sweet kid playing road hockey when Gary Bettman drove up and offered him candy if he'd get in the car? No

Sad thing is, that people who actually HAVE been victimized get a bad rep because of people trying to use it as a disingenuous excuse for their own bad decisions.

Jake deserves ALL The criticism he received up until this preseason.

Jake deserves ALL the credit for showing up ready to rock this year (He might credit others like his parents, but you'd have to ask him about that)

What? What's all this?

Jake never said he was a victim.

 

[Hodgy]

I was a big fan of the pick at the time - although I would have been just as happy with Nylander or Ehlers. At the time, I figured Jake would make the team in a 3rd/4th line role and over the course of a couple of seasons would work his way up to the top line.

I think a lot of people forget that Jake's rookie season was pretty good in spite of the quirky, veteran heavy deployment the coach preferred. Last season was admittedly a disaster for Virtanen, but I never used the word bust and held out hope that he would figure it out because his skill level is very high. So I am really happy to see him showing so much progress. If he can play most nights the way he played on Saturday night the goals and promotion up the line up will come. But he's still young and inconsistency is a characteristic of players his age, and power forwards in particular.

Save and except for a two week stretch, his rookie season was an unmitigated disaster. He had an average to poor training camp that year and didn't deserve to make the team. Despite this, Benning forced him on the roster where he was abysmal outside of a couple weeks in the spring. Moreover, he had one of the worst performances by a Canadian top pick in the World Juniors that I have ever witnessed.

Virtanen may, against all odds, turn it around and be a decent player. But that won't change the fact that basically from being drafted, to now, he has been tracking extremely poorly.

 

[rune74]

Save and except for a two week stretch, his rookie season was an unmitigated disaster. He had an average to poor training camp that year and didn't deserve to make the team. Despite this, Benning forced him on the roster where he was abysmal outside of a couple weeks in the spring. Moreover, he had one of the worst performances by a Canadian top pick in the World Juniors that I have ever witnessed.

Virtanen may, against all odds, turn it around and be a decent player. But that won't change the fact that basically from being drafted, to now, he has been tracking extremely poorly.

You think he is tracking poorly right now?

Please.

 

[Hodgy]

You think he is tracking poorly right now?

Please.

If you don't think that Virtanen has being tracking extremely poorly since being drafted then one or more of the following apply:

1. you just recently started following Jake Virtanen and/or hockey;
2. you don't know where/when Jake Virtanen was drafted;
3. you don't know how a successful top ten pick should be tracking; and/or
4. you are an eternal optimist that has stuck his/her head in the proverbial sand each time Jake Virtanen has underperformed over the past few years (i.e., your head has been in the sand since 2014).

 

[Askel]

He is probably the worst forward picked in the top 15 of his draft year so hes not that good.

 

[rune74]

If you don't think that Virtanen has being tracking extremely poorly since being drafted then one or more of the following apply:

1. you just recently started following Jake Virtanen and/or hockey;
2. you don't know where/when Jake Virtanen was drafted;
3. you don't know how a successful top ten pick should be tracking; and/or
4. you are an eternal optimist that has stuck his/her head in the proverbial sand each time Jake Virtanen has underperformed over the past few years (i.e., your head has been in the sand since 2014).

Or, you know instead of the all that you wrote, I am looking at what he is currently doing and coming to the conclusion at the moment he is trending up. I'm not talking about overall from where he was drafted(doesn't even matter anymore, wrong pick at the time).

If he came into camp got cut and didn't play...I would say he is currently trending down.

I think it is totally fine to be optimistic by what I have seen this year. You can feel disappointed in that if you want.

 

[Askel]

So all that Virtanen has to do to be tracking well is make the NHL in his draft+4 season ?

 

[LeftCoast]

Save and except for a two week stretch, his rookie season was an unmitigated disaster. He had an average to poor training camp that year and didn't deserve to make the team. Despite this, Benning forced him on the roster where he was abysmal outside of a couple weeks in the spring. Moreover, he had one of the worst performances by a Canadian top pick in the World Juniors that I have ever witnessed.

Virtanen may, against all odds, turn it around and be a decent player. But that won't change the fact that basically from being drafted, to now, he has been tracking extremely poorly.

This is simply not true. In his rookie season he didn't score at a really high rate - 7 goals / 13 points in 55 games, but he was a positive possession player (corsi 53%, Fenwick 52%), he skated hard, back checked well, and in only 55 games, was first among forwards in hits. This despite averaging only 7:34 minutes of ice time and basically never playing in the 3rd period.

 

[Hodgy]

Or, you know instead of the all that you wrote, I am looking at what he is currently doing and coming to the conclusion at the moment he is trending up. I'm not talking about overall from where he was drafted(doesn't even matter anymore, wrong pick at the time).

If he came into camp got cut and didn't play...I would say he is currently trending down.

I think it is totally fine to be optimistic by what I have seen this year. You can feel disappointed in that if you want.

You took issue with my comment that he was "tracking poorly". Re-read my sentence for context: "Virtanen may, against all odds, turn it around and be a decent player. But that won't change the fact that basically from being drafted, to now, he has been tracking extremely poorly."

My criticism of Virtanen was clearly based on his play since being drafted opposed to his present play. These are two entirely different things which you seem to have conflated. The fact that he is currently doing well ignoring draft position and draft year (if that is even true) doesn't mean he hasn't tracked extremely poorly, and for you to act offended at my comment based on the foregoing is intellectually dishonest and a waste of my time.

 

[rune74]

You took issue with my comment that he was "tracking poorly". Re-read my sentence for context: "Virtanen may, against all odds, turn it around and be a decent player. But that won't change the fact that basically from being drafted, to now, he has been tracking extremely poorly."

My criticism of Virtanen was clearly based on his play since being drafted opposed to his present play. These are two entirely different things which you seem to have conflated. The fact that he is currently doing well ignoring draft position and draft year (if that is even true) doesn't mean he hasn't tracked extremely poorly, and for you to act offended at my comment based on the foregoing is intellectually dishonest and a waste of my time.

Sure, I guess we will both have to wait and see how he does. I'm very happy with his progress this year. I wasn't offended, I just didn't agree with you. I'm sorry you feel your time was wasted, I felt somewhat the same way.