Jake Allen

[Got One Cup]

This isn’t Allen’s fault. We have been playing poor defense since Yeo took over the team. We don’t just give scoring chances, we give prime scoring chances repeatedly and expect Allen to bail us out. Stop giving players ample time in the slot, breakaways, 2 on 1s. We made a lot of changes this offseason and still looks like the same problems. If we don’t see improvement soon only one option, change the coach.

 

[Itsnotatrap]

Watch Chad Johnson come in his first game and pitch a shutout, Carter Hutton/Brian Elliott style.

 

[BlueDream]

This isn’t Allen’s fault. We have been playing poor defense since Yeo took over the team. We don’t just give scoring chances, we give prime scoring chances repeatedly and expect Allen to bail us out. Stop giving players ample time in the slot, breakaways, 2 on 1s. We made a lot of changes this offseason and still looks like the same problems. If we don’t see improvement soon only one option, change the coach.

The thing is, while the defense is bad, giving up 5 goals a game isn't good no matter what situation you're in. Under no circumstances is it really acceptable. I mean look at a team like the Arizona Coyotes last year, who were really bad. But their starter Antii Raanta actually posted great stats. You have a job to do, and pointing the finger at your defense isn't the one.

Also, the goalie is SUPPOSED to bail his team out sometimes. It's not realistic to think the team defense can be perfect and go without giving up any prime scoring chances. It's going to happen, especially against good teams like the ones in our division.

These 2 games haven't changed my mind on Allen. I'm not a fan of him. While the defense has to improve, I'm sick of people making excuses for the goalie constantly. They act like the team in front of him played the worst game of all-time. Not even close to being true. While they need to clean things up, that was a winnable game. He's gotta make some saves. Period.

 

[Meatball]

Which one?

Sorry. I meant the OT winner.

The fact that you had to say "which one"...ouch.

Seriously, I'm definitely interested in how he sees the game mentally.

What is it mentally that prevents him from playing well?

 

[Tryblot]

This isn’t Allen’s fault. We have been playing poor defense since Yeo took over the team. We don’t just give scoring chances, we give prime scoring chances repeatedly and expect Allen to bail us out. Stop giving players ample time in the slot, breakaways, 2 on 1s. We made a lot of changes this offseason and still looks like the same problems. If we don’t see improvement soon only one option, change the coach.

As someone else just mentioned below you. Hutton and didn't have any problems with that same defense. In fact, Elliott completely changed his career around with the Blues, he signed a 2-way contract at league minimum and turned that into a starters job on two other teams. He may not be the best starter but he played very well here. Same with Hutton, he was shit on in Nashville and came here and turned that into a starters job in Buffalo. The only goalie who seems to struggle with this team is Allen. I wonder why that is? Maybe it's because he's just not very good.

 

[HighNote]

Allen needs to be better, but I don't feel right judging him on just two games, especially with how we've played defensively. I'm patiently awaiting the return of Edmundson (Thursday?) to get our defense back to where it's suppose to be. If we start defending well and Allen is still letting in 4-5+ goals, then I will be convinced he's not our guy.

Side note: never before have I seen a guy be so talented, yet be such a head case. I still have hope he can turn it around, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[TheDizee]

Allen needs to be better, but I don't feel right judging him on just two games, especially with how we've played defensively. I'm patiently awaiting the return of Edmundson (Thursday?) to get our defense back to where it's suppose to be. If we start defending well and Allen is still letting in 4-5+ goals, then I will be convinced he's not our guy.

Side note: never before have I seen a guy be so talented, yet be such a head case. I still have hope he can turn it around, but I'm not holding my breath.

chris stewart says hi

 

[PiggySmalls]

As someone else just mentioned below you. Hutton and didn't have any problems with that same defense. In fact, Elliott completely changed his career around with the Blues, he signed a 2-way contract at league minimum and turned that into a starters job on two other teams. He may not be the best starter but he played very well here. Same with Hutton, he was **** on in Nashville and came here and turned that into a starters job in Buffalo. The only goalie who seems to struggle with this team is Allen. I wonder why that is? Maybe it's because he's just not very good.

It really comes down to a stylistic problem. Elliott and Hutton are both technical goalie. Blues’ defense under hitch and at first with Yeo was setup to push attacking opponents into predetermined shooting lanes. Our goalies already had a good idea where to set up at and be ready for the shot. Jake doesn’t imply this technique, he did more so when Broduer made him do it. But Jake feels his athleticism is enough to overcome this. The problem he has got to realize is, other teams knows his vulnerabilities and will game play to exploit these. He needs to learn when to flip the switch between being technical and using his athleticism. i.e. Price, Holtby, Bobrovsky to name just a few.

That’s what makes me excited for Husso, he is a technical goalie but has very fast side to side movements. So on a defensive breakdown he has a high potential of making those big saves.

 

[stl76]

Allen needs to be better, but I don't feel right judging him on just two games, especially with how we've played defensively. I'm patiently awaiting the return of Edmundson (Thursday?) to get our defense back to where it's suppose to be. If we start defending well and Allen is still letting in 4-5+ goals, then I will be convinced he's not our guy.

Side note: never before have I seen a guy be so talented, yet be such a head case. I still have hope he can turn it around, but I'm not holding my breath.

Yeah, like you and others have pointed out...it’s two freaking games. Allen should probably have a shorter leash than past years given his body of work at this point. But it’s TWO games.

The bolded is also an excellent point that I think some folks may be overlooking. Remember last season when our defense fell apart down the stretch without Edmundson? Pepperidge farm remembers. Seriously tho, it’s hard to overstate just how big a part of our defense Edmundson has become.

 

[Majorityof1]

Yeah, like you and others have pointed out...it’s two freaking games. Allen should probably have a shorter leash than past years given his body of work at this point. But it’s TWO games.

The bolded is also an excellent point that I think some folks may be overlooking. Remember last season when our defense fell apart down the stretch without Edmundson? Pepperidge farm remembers. Seriously tho, it’s hard to overstate just how big a part of our defense Edmundson has become.

Yeah, Edmundson's loss is huge. Dunn is in a bit of a sophmore slump, and Butler is Butler. People are complaining about JBo's increased role, but who else do we have. Its not Pietrangelo/Parayko, where we have a borderline 1st pairing guy on the 2nd pair. Our left-side is weaker with everyone being border-line suited for their current role. Eddy is border-line first pairing, Dunn border-line top 4 due to youth. JBo and Gunnar are probably solid 2nd/3rd pairing when healthy, but Jbo is being bumped to 1st. When our best LHD drops, we are forced to push guys who are already being carried a bit by their D partner in their current role further up the roster.

As for goalie, for people who are supportive of Allen or waiting to see, who do we go with in net on Thursday? I originally wanted Husso to get a one-game call-up to get his first taste of the NHL. Home game, not a super-elite team, non-division game, potentially a roster spot with Edmundson coming back to call Husso up. But given how bad our team looks, I don't want to throw him in front of that. So I am torn between giving Jake the vote of confidence and seeing if the team can clean its act up, or trying a different guy and seeing how they play with Johnson. Given the long-break, its definitely a vote of no confidence to start Johnson over Allen. But can we wait much longer if Allen is part of the problem?

 

[TK 421]

Yeah, Edmundson's loss is huge. Dunn is in a bit of a sophmore slump, and Butler is Butler. People are complaining about JBo's increased role, but who else do we have. Its not Pietrangelo/Parayko, where we have a borderline 1st pairing guy on the 2nd pair. Our left-side is weaker with everyone being border-line suited for their current role. Eddy is border-line first pairing, Dunn border-line top 4 due to youth. JBo and Gunnar are probably solid 2nd/3rd pairing when healthy, but Jbo is being bumped to 1st. When our best LHD drops, we are forced to push guys who are already being carried a bit by their D partner in their current role further up the roster.

As for goalie, for people who are supportive of Allen or waiting to see, who do we go with in net on Thursday? I originally wanted Husso to get a one-game call-up to get his first taste of the NHL. Home game, not a super-elite team, non-division game, potentially a roster spot with Edmundson coming back to call Husso up. But given how bad our team looks, I don't want to throw him in front of that. So I am torn between giving Jake the vote of confidence and seeing if the team can clean its act up, or trying a different guy and seeing how they play with Johnson. Given the long-break, its definitely a vote of no confidence to start Johnson over Allen. But can we wait much longer if Allen is part of the problem?

For better or worse it has to be Jake on Thursday, going with Johnson after a 5 day layoff sends a message that they're not liking what they're seeing from Jake and I'd be worried about pissing off our starter this early in the season.

He's going to want a chance at redemption and if he can pick up the win on Thursday that boost could be exactly what he needs. I really don't think Husso will get a game till the 2nd half of this season.

 

[Dbrownss]

I'd say 5 games for Jake.

 

[BlueDream]

I'd say 5 games for Jake.

He's getting suspended for being bad?

 

[topshelf331]

The team definitely plays better in front of the goalies who dont rely on athleticism. That's why Elliott had better results than Allen or Halak. But it's almost pointless to debate as we are stuck against the cap, and you dont want to throw Husso out there until the defense figures out their issues. We are stuck with Allen for a while. He is capable of winning games. But if we wait too long, he could be the difference in making the playoffs or not. We waited too long last year. And his midseason meltdown was the difference. I'm not blaming the 1st 2 games on him. I think that was more of a coaching issue. But I dont think he is going to work as a starter on this team.

 

[Dbrownss]

He's getting suspended for being bad?

Yes.

 

[Celtic Note]

I would like our defense playing better if/when Husso comes in. I want him in a position to succeed.

Our defense playing better would also provide a better read on Allen and Johnson, not that we necessarily need it for Allen.

 

[Grimlore]

I could buy that if we weren’t hanging our goalie out to dry at this high a rate.

There are also a few saves that our goalie bailed out this team throughout these past two games. How many bailout saves per game should we expect our goalies to make?

At least enough so we aren't talking about 'Is Jake Allen good enough?' every season.

Honestly, I've defended the guy in the past, but this is what? 4 seasons in and we are still talking about Allen and whether he has what it takes. 2 Backups have come in and played better, so why do we keep going back to this guy. I'll laugh when we start Johnson vs. Calgary and he gets the win.

 

[Stealth JD]

If nothing else, Jake is entertaining. Season could go very well, or very poorly and it's mostly going to be because of this guy and his team's ability to keep focused even when he himself cannot. He's got a hard job, and it's not his fault that Armstrong gave him that asinine contract extension, but he's got to feel that rope getting tighter around his neck...which makes his response to all this pressure all the more entertaining! The Blues are going to follow his cue and they'll play as well as he does. A few early leads would be great for his psyche. But a few more implosions by the team or even worse, Jake himself, are going to make for some high drama. I'm equally as fascinated about a potential response to a tire-fire as I am for them to rally and start climbing the standings. And if I had to bet how this is all going to play out, i'm honestly not sure which way i'd wager...I have that little confidence in Jake's ability not to collapse.

 

[Ranksu]

Heh, I put some bets over 100€ that Blues are going to Be ahead in the standings vs. Dallas and Minnesota end of regular season. Allen better to get his shit together.

 

[carter333167]

I don't think subjectively analyzing every goal scored as to whether it was stoppable is the proper barometer by which to judge a goaltender. This type of analysis misses the forest for the trees.

For example, the save Helle made on ROR would seem unstoppable if it had scored, yet he made the save. Additionally, some so called "unstoppable shots" are only unstoppable b/c of an error in positioning.

I believe the key is to judge the goalie vs his peers over time (referring to such stats as Easton posted).

Finally, as Easton underscored, it is no excuse for a goalie that a defense allows tough chances. Even the best defenses will allow some tough chances in every game. Moreover, the Blues have not, during Allen's tenure, been a sub-par defensive team in this area. This fact is supported statistically by advanced stats and anecdotally by Hutton's performance behind this defense when he posted the league's best save percentage last season.

 

[TruBlu]

I'm not expecting much from any goalie if the team continues to play the way they have the last two games. Toews stood on the doorstep for two easy putts into the net without any resistance, as well as, the breakaway to end the game. Several of the goals scored on us so far are on the pp and breakaways. Jake will have to find some consistency, but many of the people complaining that he has to save the team every once in a while forget about the other saves he made that night to even keep the game close e.g., the poke check on Debrincat after he'd broken through both defenders and the point blank save against Kane. No one here thinks Allen is elite, but the Blues fan base always chooses to pick out the bad and forget the good.

 

[Cotton McKnight]

I'm ready to move on to a system goalie, it's not a four letter word folks, it may just help us win some hockey games. That is if the boys decide to play the system, and the system can change based on our opponents.

 

[Celtic Note]

If nothing else, Jake is entertaining. Season could go very well, or very poorly and it's mostly going to be because of this guy and his team's ability to keep focused even when he himself cannot. He's got a hard job, and it's not his fault that Armstrong gave him that asinine contract extension, but he's got to feel that rope getting tighter around his neck...which makes his response to all this pressure all the more entertaining! The Blues are going to follow his cue and they'll play as well as he does. A few early leads would be great for his psyche. But a few more implosions by the team or even worse, Jake himself, are going to make for some high drama. I'm equally as fascinated about a potential response to a tire-fire as I am for them to rally and start climbing the standings. And if I had to bet how this is all going to play out, i'm honestly not sure which way i'd wager...I have that little confidence in Jake's ability not to collapse.

Armstrong giving him a long term contract that quickly was a bad idea before it was an idea.

 

[Celtic Note]

I'm ready to move on to a system goalie, it's not a four letter word folks, it may just help us win some hockey games. That is if the boys decide to play the system, and the system can change based on our opponents.

I would assume most everyone agrees about having a goalie that relies more on positioning.

 

[PiggySmalls]

I'm ready to move on to a system goalie, it's not a four letter word folks, it may just help us win some hockey games. That is if the boys decide to play the system, and the system can change based on our opponents.

Very true. It’s five letters each. V-i-l-l-e H-u-s-s-o. Haha. I kid.