Jagr vs Lidstrom vs Hasek?

[Felidae]

Hasek
Lidstrom
Jagr

Both in terms of career value (Hasek is the greatest goalie of all time) and in order of who I think gives my team the best chance to win. Jagr couldn't do much without Lemieux and I don't know that Lidstrom is thought of as highly if he was drafted by Washington or Winnipeg, rather than a HHOF factory. Hasek could drag an average team to the Finals on his back.

I don't disagree with your ranking but your reasoning.

Jagr won the bulk of his awards without Lemieux. Yes, his teams didn't pass the 2nd round with Lemieux absent. But Lemieux also "never did much" without Jagr. His teams only made the playoffs once before 1990 when Jagr and others entered the picture.

There's other legitimate arguments to have Jagr ranked after Hasek and Lidstrom. Playoff success isn't one of them for the most part, even if his overall postseason play is weaker than the other two.

 

[powerbomb]

I voted for "1) Jagr 2) Hasek Lidstrom" because the typo/omission allows for plausible deniability and I'm all about that life

 

[Nasti]

Jagr is the Lidstrom of forwards.
Hasek is the Jagr of goalies.
Lidstrom is the Hasek of defensemen.

 

[um]

I thought Jagr and Hasek were the best players in the world at certain points, never felt that way about Lidstrom

Hasek>Jagr>Lidstrom

Good poll

 

[I am not exposed]

1. Hasek
2. Jagr

3. Lidstrom

 

[Czechboy]

What a tremendous poll suggestion!

I couldn't vote... Too hard. Lidstrom is under rated often and I have no idea why.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Jagr is the Lidstrom of forwards.
Hasek is the Jagr of goalies.
Lidstrom is the Hasek of defensemen.

Jagr was the best player in the world and has arguably the best non Gretzky/Lemieux/Howe peak for forwards. Lidstrom was never the best player in the world and his peak was nothing special.

Sure.

Hasek is the GOAT goalie and has the best peak for a goalie ever. Lidstrom isn't close to being the GOAT D and his peak is nowhere close to the best ever.

 

[Nasti]

Jagr was the best player in the world and has arguably the best non Gretzky/Lemieux/Howe peak for forwards. Lidstrom was never the best player in the world and his peak was nothing special.

Sure.

Hasek is the GOAT goalie and has the best peak for a goalie ever. Lidstrom isn't close to being the GOAT D and his peak is nowhere close to the best ever.

My comment was meant more as a “they were all great“ type of comment rather than one to be overanalyzed.

 

[O6OG]

Lidstrom is probably the most chronically underrated top 5 player at his position of all time.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

4 cups, 6 finals, 7 Norris trophies, a conn smythe, and the only D to not play in the 80s to score 1000 points is being ranked 3rd on this list?

 

[MakeTheGoalsLarger]

That wasn't my experience of watching Hasek.

I still remember the 1998 game of Canada vs Czech Republic.

Canada shelled Hasek all game long.

Then 5 all stars in a shootout with any defense.

Hasek won the game pretty much single-handedly.

For me, he's the best goalie I've ever watched.

In my memory Canada sucked at the 1998 Olympics. Low percentage shots all game against Czech Republic.

 

[norrisnick]

Jagr was the best player in the world and has arguably the best non Gretzky/Lemieux/Howe peak for forwards. Lidstrom was never the best player in the world and his peak was nothing special.

Sure.

Hasek is the GOAT goalie and has the best peak for a goalie ever. Lidstrom isn't close to being the GOAT D and his peak is nowhere close to the best ever.

Lidstrom was the best player of the 2000s. His peak was 6 Norris trophies in 7 seasons, with 2 Cups (one as captain), Conn Smythe, and Olympic gold in that stretch. And his prime extends several seasons in either direction from there.

Lidstrom is as close to Orr as any forward is to Gretzky, so that's a silly argument. He has as strong an argument for #2 D as anyone.

Lidstrom is probably the most chronically underrated top 5 player at his position of all time.

Probably? More like undoubtedly.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Lidstrom was the best player of the 2000s. His peak was 6 Norris trophies in 7 seasons, with 2 Cups (one as captain), Conn Smythe, and Olympic gold in that stretch. And his prime extends several seasons in either direction from there.

Lidstrom is as close to Orr as any forward is to Gretzky, so that's a silly argument. He has as strong an argument for #2 D as anyone.

Probably? More like undoubtedly.

Maybe? But the 2000s were an extremely weak time both at forward and defense in the NHL imo.

 

[norrisnick]

Maybe? But the 2000s were an extremely weak time both at forward and defense in the NHL imo.

Lidstrom can only operate in the time when he was born. And we can only judge people against whom they played not who could have been there.

 

[AvroArrow]

Lidstrom should be #3, Hasek and Jagr are interchangeable for me

 

[BraveCanadian]

Lidstrom can only operate in the time when he was born. And we can only judge people against whom they played not who could have been there.

I think we can compare him just fine with the other two and understand he didn't peak nearly as high as they did.

 

[norrisnick]

I think we can compare him just fine with the other two and understand he didn't peak nearly as high as they did.

I disagree. Rightly or wrongly (I lean wrongly) defensive players do not get credit for high peaks unless they score at an allstar winger's clip.

 

[SillyRabbit]

Lidstrom is probably the most chronically underrated top 5 player at his position of all time.

Actually, that’s Ray Bourque.

Lidstrom is actually overrated when you have people people try to claim that he’s the second or third best defenceman of all time.

As for this poll, Hasek-Jagr-Lidstrom.

All had legendary careers, but at their best, Hasek and Jagr had extended periods of time as the best player in the world. Lidstrom was never the consensus best player in the world.

 

[norrisnick]

Actually, that’s Ray Bourque.

Lidstrom is actually overrated when you have people people try to claim that he’s the second or third best defenceman of all time.

As for this poll, Hasek-Jagr-Lidstrom.

All had legendary careers, but at their best, Hasek and Jagr had extended periods of time as the best player in the world. Lidstrom was never the consensus best player in the world.

Because of the statement in the post you quoted.

Bourque has never been underrated.

 

[GettingYourMoms]

1. Jagr 2. Lindstrom 3. Lindstrom, because Hasek is idiot.

 

[sdf]

Genious question

 

[JAS 39 Gripen]

Hasek > Jagr > Lidström

 

[ZEBROA]

Lidstrom is defenitly the smartest. And most underrated among them. But i will not vote , it is not fair. Orr or Gretzky? And who would say Hazek or Jagr over Gretzky?

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

4 cups, 6 finals, 7 Norris trophies, a conn smythe, and the only D to not play in the 80s to score 1000 points is being ranked 3rd on this list?

Against a goalie with 6 Vezinas and 2 Harts.

A forward with 5 Ross, 1 Hart and is 2nd all time in points, 4th all time in goals and 5th all time in assists

yeah, that makes him 3rd. No slight against Lidstrom but he ain't on that level

 

[NordiquesForeva]

1. Hasek
2. Jagr
3. Lidstrom

Not to diminish Lidstrom, who I believe is a top-5 defenseman of all-time, but I see some separation between Hasek and Jagr, and even more of a gap between Jagr and Lidstrom. I found Hasek and Jagr to be the more uniquely-talented hockey players who consistently elevated themselves above their peers. Lidstrom's value lies in his consistency, durability, elite defensive play and ability to serve as the identity and foundational player for a perennial winning franchise (with all due respect to Yzerman and Fedorov). There's a difference there for me...Hasek was irreplaceable at the goaltender position (as much as I love Roy, I found Hasek to be more dominant over his peak/prime), and Jagr was the most productive offensive force in the NHL not named Gretzky or Lemieux. The gaps between Hasek and Jagr and their contemporaries and next goaltender/winger on the all-time list are much larger than they are for Lidstrom. Others may disagree.

If building a franchise, I would see Hasek and Jagr as the more unique and irreplaceable talents and plug any gaps at the defense position with someone that would be closer to Lidstrom than the next available goaltender/winger are to Hasek and Jagr.