Player Discussion Jacob Trouba

[Edge]

Yeah, if Buff was still playing, Pionk is not on their top pairing.

Agreed. I'd take it a step further and say that if the Jets didn't trade Trouba for him, and Buff was still playing, he could play the exact same way he's playing right now and he'd on the Jets' third defensive unit.

So I think there's a bit of context that needs to be brought to the table when discussing Pionk's use on the first pair.

 

[rangersfansince08]

I get all that, and none of it’s false, but if he’s put on the power play, because that’s where his role allows him to put up points, then to some degree he’s viewed as an offensive defenseman.

That’s also a big reason why the first thing people point to with Pionk is his points. Whereas other defensemen, say Trouba, typically don’t see that happen, even if they actually have more points.

And that kind of segways into my point/takeaway that while some are pointing to Pionk’s season, and using offensive totals as a pillar, he’s still not even winning the “comparison” in that regard, despite it being a more fundamental component of his game, his utilization, and right or wrong, how his success is viewed.

It really wasn’t to debate how one defines an offensive defenseman or how Pionk’s usage either does or doesn’t make him a true offensive defenseman. I agree with what you’re saying and you’re overall assessment of Pionk. I just think he’s viewed the way he’s viewed and utilized a certain way accordingly.

And the only reason Trouba isn't getting more PP time is because Deangelo and Fox are so great in that role. Not a negative indictment on Trouba. The fact that Pionk gets so much PP time in Winnipeg says more about their other defenseman than anything.

 

[motopanekeku]

Something tells me he slides down the depth chart if they had other options.

So I think there's also an element of where he's playing vs. where he ideally belongs.

Someone would look at Brady Skjei right now, look at his stat line, and how we're using him, and proclaim him a first pairing defenseman. But that proclamation wouldn't necessarily make it so.

No I agree. I don't think Pionk will be amazing but probably a solid regular. I just think it was a good trade for both teams.

 

[motopanekeku]

But, he wasn’t going to be one with the Rangers. And, not only would he have been behind DeAngelo (which he was by the end of last year) and Fox, he was going to pushed by Keane and likely passed by Lundkvist.

That's exactly why he was traded. Van was willing to push him to the front of their lineup. The way we rode him last year showed that he can at least hang in there. We needed the known quantity of a Trouba in our lineup. Yay.

 

[Edge]

No I agree. I don't think Pionk will be amazing but probably a solid regular. I just think it was a good trade for both teams.

At the end of the day, I think Winnipeg got what they could, based on what was a somewhat limited market.

The challenge is that the deal also doesn't live in isolation, it's linked to their Hayes moves. So there's always going to be a mindset to view the deal as a Hayes rental and Pionk for Trouba and Lemieux, and the first having essentially only moved on paper for a few weeks.

Kind of like how some like to split the McD trade into two separate deals, fans will probably do the opposite here and roll everything into one package. And if Trouba hovers in the 10-15 goal, 40-50 point range, and Lemieux works his way into the 15-20 goal, 40 point range, that deal could look pretty ugly to the eyes.

 

[aufheben]

Well the Jets do and he plays for them

Pretty sure he plays on the 2nd pair—away from Morrissey. I think the group of forwards Winnipeg has are helping Pionk more than anything. And Hellebuyck. The Jets are a bad defensive team.

 

[Harbour Dog]

At the end of the day, I think Winnipeg got what they could, based on what was a somewhat limited market.

The challenge is that the deal also doesn't live in isolation, it's linked to their Hayes moves. So there's always going to be a mindset to view the deal as a Hayes rental and Pionk for Trouba and Lemieux, and the first having essentially only moved on paper for a few weeks.

Kind of like how some like to split the McD trade into two separate deals, fans will probably do the opposite here and roll everything into one package. And if Trouba hovers in the 10-15 goal, 40-50 point range, and Lemieux works his way into the 15-20 goal, 40 point range, that deal could look pretty ugly to the eyes.

It bugs me to no end when I hear the Hayes and Pionk trades getting lumped together.

Or that somehow the 1st we gave up for Trouba mattered less because we were just giving it back.

No. They were two completely separate trades, each made on their own merit. That 1st belonged to us, and we used it, along with Pionk, to acquire Trouba.

We won the Hayes trade and the Trouba one looks pretty even; not sure why we need to buoy it more by trying to make one justify the other.

 

[Edge]

It bugs me to no end when I hear the Hayes and Pionk trades getting lumped together.

Or that somehow the 1st we gave up for Trouba mattered less because we were just giving it back.

No. They were two completely separate trades, each made on their own merit. That 1st belonged to us, and we used it, along with Pionk, to acquire Trouba.

We won the Hayes trade and the Trouba one looks pretty even; not sure why we need to buoy it more by trying to make one justify the other.

And right or wrong, it's probably going to happen.

Personally, I don't feel like the Rangers would take Pionk and that pick for Trouba.

Similarly if Trouba didn't have one foot out the door, and was willing to stay in Winnpeg, I don't think the Jets would take Pionk and the first over him.

 

[bobbop]

And the only reason Trouba isn't getting more PP time is because Deangelo and Fox are so great in that role. Not a negative indictment on Trouba. The fact that Pionk gets so much PP time in Winnipeg says more about their other defenseman than anything.

I think the way the coaches are using Trouba as a fourth forward on the PP2 is brilliant. He’s better suited as a shooter that quarterback given the other talent available. Gives the Rangers another lethal right hand option.

Now if he would just hit the net more often.

 

[Harbour Dog]

And right or wrong, it's probably going to happen.

Personally, I don't feel like the Rangers would take Pionk and that pick for Trouba.

Similarly if Trouba didn't have one foot out the door, and was willing to stay in Winnpeg, I don't think the Jets would take Pionk and the first over him.

I think you're definitely right.

I should reiterate that "the trade looks pretty even" based on how much Winnipeg are utilizing Pionk right now, and that I had my eyes set on Heinola with the Jets pick, so I probably covet him a little more than a generic 20th overall pick.

 

[hi]

 

[Filthy Dangles]

I've been critical of Jake but that's a tough spot for him to be in, honestly. The right play there is probably for one of Kreider or Skjei to pass their guy off to him and take the trailer, Dillon instead. Skjei and Trouba have been a disaster though.

This play caught my eye watching the Condensed Game highlights. Skjei basically lets Kane bully him into the corner where he gets pinned against his own Dman, Trouba. Who serves up a nice turnover to Meier on the rim, forcing Zibanejad to be the only guy defending the net/middle.

Like I said, disaster pairing lots of times.

 

[SA16]

I've been critical of Jake but that's a tough spot for him to be in, honestly. The right play there is probably for one of Kreider or Skjei to pass their guy off to him and take the trailer, Dillon instead. Skjei and Trouba have been a disaster though.

This play caught my eye watching the Condensed Game highlights. Skjei basically lets Kane bully him into the corner where he gets pinned against his own Dman, Trouba. Who serves up a nice turnover to Meier on the rim, forcing Zibanejad to be the only guy defending the net/middle.

Like I said, disaster pairing lots of times.

Hard to blame the RD for a goal when the shooter is walking in on the right side of the ice. He could have got there and helped out but that was not his guy.

 

[mulli25]

I feel like Kreider should have gone right to Dillon, but I also don't love the spot Trouba put himself in coming off the bench.

 

[NYR Viper]

Yeah Dillon is clearly Kreider's guy

 

[McRanger]

Hard to blame the RD for a goal when the shooter is walking in on the right side of the ice. He could have got there and helped out but that was not his guy.

When Skjei took the puck carrier Labanc, Dillon and the center of the ice became Trouba's problem.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

When Skjei took the puck carrier Labanc, Dillon and the center of the ice became Trouba's problem.

Trouba was forced to back up and had no gap. The right read was for Skjei to pass off Labanc and take the trailer, imo. I mean its tough though in real game speed to recognize that, they gave the puck away and went for a line change, it happened fast.

Also Brady failed to get the puck deep and gave it away when the team was looking for that change so he's a reason for the rush to happen in the first place.

The Rangers struggle with this every game. Partial rushes where you have to switch and pass a player off to a teammate, they fail to handle it. We know this, it's not suprising, they're not a good defensive team.

 

[Kovalev27]

Trouba is a beast and Pionk was the worst defender I’d seen on this team in a long time and that’s not saying much. I’m thrilled this happened. Still absolutely thrilled

 

[McRanger]

Trouba was forced to back up and had no gap. The right read was for Skjei to pass off Labanc and take the trailer, imo. I mean its tough though in real game speed to recognize that, they gave the puck away and went for a line change, it happened fast.

Also Brady failed to get the puck deep and gave it away when the team was looking for that change so he's a reason for the rush to happen in the first place.

The Rangers struggle with this every game. Partial rushes where you have to switch and pass a player off to a teammate, they fail to handle it. We know this, it's not suprising, they're not a good defensive team.

Eh releasing Labanc is dangerous, especially when they don't have numbers on you. You're leaving an open man behind you to cover the middle of the ice that Trouba is already covering.

Honestly the way a play like this usually unfolds was for Trouba to confront the puck carrier and instead of Skjei awkwardly racing over he covers the middle.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Though that play looked ugly on Trouba's part, I agree – it very much appeared like he thought the forward was supposed to have the shooter.

I put a lot more blame on him for the pass behind the net directly to Meier on the first goal. He made it blind, presuming that the opposing forward would go to the front of the net, got it wrong – and a quick glance was all that was needed to avoid the mistake.

That said, I remain a HUGE Trouba fan (he did a lot that was good last night, as well, even in what qualified as one of his worst games in a while), and remain thrilled with the deal (despite the fact that I was one of Pionk's few remaining supporters at the end).

 

[duhmetreE]

It's been a problem for too long. There's no communication and confusion. This was coming off a change. Trouba could have jumped up to challenge the defenseman on his off-sisw but is that not Kreiders guy? Kreider should have closed in and challenged IMO

 

[TorJet]

Interesting to read through this thread, with so much discussion being about Pionk vs Trouba. There’s no question that NYR won the trade in terms of player vs player. The Rangers certainly got the best player in the deal - due to Trouba’s willingness to only sign with a small handful of teams the Jets had zero leverage and were more-or-less forced into making a bad deal. That said, the deal isn’t nearly as lopsided as initially thought, as Heinola and Pionk both look like top 4 guys, either presently or down the road. The Jets are not a free agent destination, and their scouts keep them afloat - they clearly saw something they liked in Pionk and so far he looks far better than many feared.

I’ve always liked Trouba - he made everyone he played with better (Morrissey definitely misses him). He plays with an edge, he’s mobile and quite strong on the boards. That said, his hockey sense is below average (he makes strange decisions at key moments, takes some bad penalties, decision-making on the pp can be questionable), and he’s not an offensive difference maker. He has a hard but inaccurate shot, and his stats were inflated last year due to injuries to Byfuglien, Morrissey and Myers, all of whom were playing above him on the PP when they were healthy. Finally, he hasn’t really improved since he came into the league - his first couple of years he looked like a future perennial all-star, franchise Dman - but he “is what he is” at this point; a first pairing Dman on essentially any team in the league, but a player I doubt will ever make an all-star team or be a Norris candidate.

Without question he makes the NYR a better team - that said, he is being paid all the money and I don’t see his game evolving beyond where it currently is...

Who won the trade? The Rangers did. But under the circumstances, it’s closer than I think anyone expected it to be, particularly when factoring in salary cap numbers.

 

[hi]

This guy taking up eight million in cap space until 2026 is going to be a problem. Trade him before it's the Rangers problem

 

[EdJovanovski]

This guy taking up eight million in cap space until 2026 is going to be a problem. Trade him before it's the Rangers problem

Yup
Directly caused 3 goals against in like a 2 min span tonight, one of his most brutal games as a Ranger. Look how bad he is and this is the first year of his contract, we're supposed to be in the honeymoon stage. I can only imagine what that contract will look like in its final years.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

Funny how the Trouba haters come here after one of his worst games of the year. He and Skjei sucked big time especially late in the game but he has looked good in a lot of games as well.