Jacob Trouba

[Grind]

I'll say right now I'd go 5.5 to get the extra 2 years in a heartbeat but who knows if that's palpable to troubas camp.

I am also a huge fan of troubas and am convinced already he's a legit first pairing dman.

So I may not be the best barometer.

Even if he doesnt improve one lick he's already better then bogo and that's a sweeter deal then he got.

 

[JetsFan815]

I don't think it's unreasonable for Trouba to get more than Rielly, all things considered.

If it is for the same term than it absolutely is pretty unreasonable. Trouba is in the Maatta range anyways imo in terms of money, if he makes more than Reilly for the same term than he'll be the highest paid dman in his draft class despite not having done much to differentiate himself from the other dmen of his draft. If you are buying out more UFA years than Reilly then fine, he can be paid more I suppose. But for the same term there is no reasonable argument for him to make more than Reilly.

I agree with Mort, the market has been clearly set for a player of Trouba's age and quality, we only do ourselves a disservice by paying above it.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I don't think it's unreasonable for Trouba to get more than Rielly, all things considered.

Which things are you considering besides things like his scoring last year? I don't think Chevy is going to react positively to being told that Stu has held him back. The fact is that Rielly has outperformed Trouba and the bar has been set. I think that arguments to the contrary are what make a bridge deal more likely. If Trouba and his agent think he deserves more he will have the chance to prove it. I don't think a good GM hands out 8 year contracts based on faith. Chevy got burned by 5 years on Pav. The hope is that he has learned.

 

[SKODEN]

Hey guys been a long time lurker. I read everyday, I don't really have an excuse for not contributing but better late then never!

I really feel that Trouba hasn't really shown us much progression in the 3 years he has been a Jet. Of coarse an obvious and easy reason would be his points falling off every year. But I'm not going to pick on him the easy way.

Trouba has been light up defensively a lot this year. Many times I have watched Trouba every second he is on the ice. If its not losing his jockstrap to Jason Zucker 20 seconds into the Season. Or the last game in buffalo getting outmuscled and made to look like a grocery stick by a rookie in his first game. The kid just lifted his stick and pushed him out of the way and scored basically.

Im really hard on Trouba. I feel IMO he is a tad overrated. Im hoping he proves me wrong ! By the way first lost. Been a lurker for 5 years! Sorry for the penmanship !

 

[SKODEN]

I really feel that Trouba hasn't really shown us much progression in the 3 years he has been a Jet. Of coarse an obvious and easy reason would be his points falling off every year. But I'm not going to pick on him the easy way.

Trouba has been light up defensively a lot this year. Many times I have watched Trouba every second he is on the ice. If its not losing his jockstrap to Jason Zucker 20 seconds into the Season. Or the last game in buffalo getting outmuscled and made to look like a grocery stick by a rookie in his first game. The kid just lifted his stick and pushed him out of the way and scored basically.

Im really hard on Trouba. I feel IMO he is a tad overrated. Im hoping he proves me wrong ! By the way first lost. Been a lurker for 5 years! Sorry for the penmanship ![/QUOTE]

 

[Whileee]

Which things are you considering besides things like his scoring last year? I don't think Chevy is going to react positively to being told that Stu has held him back. The fact is that Rielly has outperformed Trouba and the bar has been set. I think that arguments to the contrary are what make a bridge deal more likely. If Trouba and his agent think he deserves more he will have the chance to prove it. I don't think a good GM hands out 8 year contracts based on faith. Chevy got burned by 5 years on Pav. The hope is that he has learned.

I look at the full 3 years. Rielly gave a bit of a discount, in my opinion. Trouba has a more complete defensive package. RHD.

 

[CorgisPer60]

I look at the full 3 years. Rielly gave a bit of a discount, in my opinion. Trouba has a more complete defensive package. RHD.

Good luck convincing Chevy that Reilly took a discount.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I look at the full 3 years. Rielly gave a bit of a discount, in my opinion. Trouba has a more complete defensive package. RHD.

When it comes to contracts I'm pretty sure that recency rules. It will always be 'what have you done for me lately'? That doesn't have to be the right way or the smart way to look at it but it is how it will be. Human nature. What supports a discount by Rielly? Negotiation is about trying to get the best deal possible. You will never see the day when a GM and agent agree on a number and then the GM says have some more money, your client is a more complete package. There are more LHD than RHD - unless the team is the Jets. Chevy is going to get the best deal he can based on comparing to other contracts from around the league. He'll choose comparables that favour the team and the agent will choose comps that favour the player. In the end it will come down to the relative strength of positions. What strength does Trouba have?

 

[KingBogo]

When it comes to contracts I'm pretty sure that recency rules. It will always be 'what have you done for me lately'? That doesn't have to be the right way or the smart way to look at it but it is how it will be. Human nature. What supports a discount by Rielly? Negotiation is about trying to get the best deal possible. You will never see the day when a GM and agent agree on a number and then the GM says have some more money, your client is a more complete package. There are more LHD than RHD - unless the team is the Jets. Chevy is going to get the best deal he can based on comparing to other contracts from around the league. He'll choose comparables that favour the team and the agent will choose comps that favour the player. In the end it will come down to the relative strength of positions. What strength does Trouba have?

As a starting point Rielly's deal was great for Chevy 6 X 5 is a fair number and will be very happy to see Trouba inked for the same contract. That being said IMO a player might take a little less off his ELC if they really like their situation and dig their feet in if they don't or they believe they are being under appreciated. Some guys sign quickly for contracts that seem very team friendly (Klingberg) others fight tooth and nail (ROR).

I don't think we should kid ourselves that Trouba doesn't have strength in his position. He might not have developed quite to the point we all imagined. But he is a 22 y/o top 4 defenseman which in itself gives him a lot of bargaining power. And while he doesn't have huge numbers he still has a very desirable skill set. Just Look how hard it is for most teams to fill out a lineup with 6 good defenseman. Our top D prospect is only year younger than Trouba an has 1 NHL game and still has big question marks. I'm just hoping Chevy and Trouba's camp find a nice friendly way to the middle and get something done. Even if that is for a shade more than Rielly. The difference would never make up for Rielly's position as the star defenseman in hockey's biggest market and the extra revenue that comes to him in that position.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

As a starting point Rielly's deal was great for Chevy 6 X 5 is a fair number and will be very happy to see Trouba inked for the same contract. That being said IMO a player might take a little less off his ELC if they really like their situation and dig their feet in if they don't or they believe they are being under appreciated. Some guys sign quickly for contracts that seem very team friendly (Klingberg) others fight tooth and nail (ROR).

I don't think we should kid ourselves that Trouba doesn't have strength in his position. He might not have developed quite to the point we all imagined. But he is a 22 y/o top 4 defenseman which in itself gives him a lot of bargaining power. And while he doesn't have huge numbers he still has a very desirable skill set. Just Look how hard it is for most teams to fill out a lineup with 6 good defenseman. Our top D prospect is only year younger than Trouba an has 1 NHL game and still has big question marks. I'm just hoping Chevy and Trouba's camp find a nice friendly way to the middle and get something done. Even if that is for a shade more than Rielly. The difference would never make up for Rielly's position as the star defenseman in hockey's biggest market and the extra revenue that comes to him in that position.

Yes Trouba has some nice points to make. Nice .... like My Little Pony is nice. I'm not suggesting The Jets go in and low ball him. This is a market. Players get paid according to their market value. Trouba is tied for 74th in scoring among D-men. Tied with 7 other men whose salaries range from .605 mil to 4.0 mil and avg 2.9 mil. Teams get "very desirable" skill sets for a lot less than what Rielly is making, not just a little less. Rielly tied for 34th in the league.

You are confusing arguing or debating power with bargaining power. Negotiation is not about debating points. It is a power struggle. Being a UFA gives a player a strong bargaining position. Coming off a strong season gives a player a strong position. Trouba is an RFA coming off a middling season. That is not a strong bargaining position.

Market value is determined by looking at recently signed contracts for players in a similar bargaining position. Rielly, 36 pts last year, 6x5. Maata, 19 pts, 6x4.083. Klingberg, 58 pts, 6x4.25. There is your market. You can argue that Rielly and Klingberg took discounts but that won't carry any weight at all. None. Are there any better comparables? Klinberg scored 58 points fer Pete's sake! That's 2.75 times what Trouba scored.

Am I overemphasizing scoring? No. It counts a lot at negotiation time and if I was overemphasizing it I would take Klingbergs salary and divide it by 2.75 and offer Trouba 6x1.55 or Rielly's 5 mil adjusted for pts = 6x2.92 mil. I'm not doing that. Rielly is at the top of the 3 recent contracts by a wide margin and I am suggesting Trouba comes in just a little below the top number. A number that his scoring doesn't support so I am not overemphasizing scoring.

There is no argument that I have seen or that I can imagine for paying Trouba MORE THAN any of these other players.

If his agent tries to get more and digs in on it you have to go to the bridge option or else trade him.

 

[Whileee]

Yes Trouba has some nice points to make. Nice .... like My Little Pony is nice. I'm not suggesting The Jets go in and low ball him. This is a market. Players get paid according to their market value. Trouba is tied for 74th in scoring among D-men. Tied with 7 other men whose salaries range from .605 mil to 4.0 mil and avg 2.9 mil. Teams get "very desirable" skill sets for a lot less than what Rielly is making, not just a little less. Rielly tied for 34th in the league.

You are confusing arguing or debating power with bargaining power. Negotiation is not about debating points. It is a power struggle. Being a UFA gives a player a strong bargaining position. Coming off a strong season gives a player a strong position. Trouba is an RFA coming off a middling season. That is not a strong bargaining position.

Market value is determined by looking at recently signed contracts for players in a similar bargaining position. Rielly, 36 pts last year, 6x5. Maata, 19 pts, 6x4.083. Klingberg, 58 pts, 6x4.25. There is your market. You can argue that Rielly and Klingberg took discounts but that won't carry any weight at all. None. Are there any better comparables? Klinberg scored 58 points fer Pete's sake! That's 2.75 times what Trouba scored.

Am I overemphasizing scoring? No. It counts a lot at negotiation time and if I was overemphasizing it I would take Klingbergs salary and divide it by 2.75 and offer Trouba 6x1.55 or Rielly's 5 mil adjusted for pts = 6x2.92 mil. I'm not doing that. Rielly is at the top of the 3 recent contracts by a wide margin and I am suggesting Trouba comes in just a little below the top number. A number that his scoring doesn't support so I am not overemphasizing scoring.

There is no argument that I have seen or that I can imagine for paying Trouba MORE THAN any of these other players.

If his agent tries to get more and digs in on it you have to go to the bridge option or else trade him.

Trouba doesn't have that much bargaining power, but he isn't powerless, especially if the Jets see him as a core piece. A 2-year bridge deal sounds fine now, but it brings Trouba closer to a time when he has ultimate bargaining power.

 

[KingBogo]

Yes Trouba has some nice points to make. Nice .... like My Little Pony is nice. I'm not suggesting The Jets go in and low ball him. This is a market. Players get paid according to their market value. Trouba is tied for 74th in scoring among D-men. Tied with 7 other men whose salaries range from .605 mil to 4.0 mil and avg 2.9 mil. Teams get "very desirable" skill sets for a lot less than what Rielly is making, not just a little less. Rielly tied for 34th in the league.

You are confusing arguing or debating power with bargaining power. Negotiation is not about debating points. It is a power struggle. Being a UFA gives a player a strong bargaining position. Coming off a strong season gives a player a strong position. Trouba is an RFA coming off a middling season. That is not a strong bargaining position.

Market value is determined by looking at recently signed contracts for players in a similar bargaining position. Rielly, 36 pts last year, 6x5. Maata, 19 pts, 6x4.083. Klingberg, 58 pts, 6x4.25. There is your market. You can argue that Rielly and Klingberg took discounts but that won't carry any weight at all. None. Are there any better comparables? Klinberg scored 58 points fer Pete's sake! That's 2.75 times what Trouba scored.

Am I overemphasizing scoring? No. It counts a lot at negotiation time and if I was overemphasizing it I would take Klingbergs salary and divide it by 2.75 and offer Trouba 6x1.55 or Rielly's 5 mil adjusted for pts = 6x2.92 mil. I'm not doing that. Rielly is at the top of the 3 recent contracts by a wide margin and I am suggesting Trouba comes in just a little below the top number. A number that his scoring doesn't support so I am not overemphasizing scoring.

There is no argument that I have seen or that I can imagine for paying Trouba MORE THAN any of these other players.

If his agent tries to get more and digs in on it you have to go to the bridge option or else trade him.

I don't believe I am. Trouba may be restricted but he is still a free agent. He will have some bargaining power. He can soon talk with any team he likes. A draft and develop team going all in on a youth movement can't be perceived as having their expiring ELC's there for the taking. At that point all it takes is 1 team willing to give him an offer sheet. Maybe Detroit is willing to pay a bit of a premium for a 22 y/o hometown boy with top pairing potential? Sure we can match any offer sheet but now you are likely overpaying even more. But my point is a player is not bound to fall quietly in line just because a comparable signed for X amount. Sure it helps but it doesn't lock things in stone especially if a player is not completely satisfied with his current situation. If things do start getting contentious we may be able to dictate terms now but that often sets the stage for less than ideal long term outcomes.

 

[surixon]

It's quite funny to see Oilers fans try to convince themselves and others that Nurse is remotely close in value to Trouba on the trade board.

 

[Whileee]

I don't believe I am. Trouba may be restricted but he is still a free agent. He will have some bargaining power. He can soon talk with any team he likes. A draft and develop team going all in on a youth movement can't be perceived as having their expiring ELC's there for the taking. At that point all it takes is 1 team willing to give him an offer sheet. Maybe Detroit is willing to pay a bit of a premium for a 22 y/o hometown boy with top pairing potential? Sure we can match any offer sheet but now you are likely overpaying even more. But my point is a player is not bound to fall quietly in line just because a comparable signed for X amount. Sure it helps but it doesn't lock things in stone especially if a player is not completely satisfied with his current situation. If things do start getting contentious we may be able to dictate terms now but that often sets the stage for less than ideal long term outcomes.

Basically, I think that the Jets will be willing to pay full market value, and maybe a bit more, to sign Trouba long-term. But if they get a sense that he isn't really committed to being in Winnipeg long-term and his agent starts a bit of a dance to try to get him to UFA early, I think the Jets will trade him. I don't think they are going to put a huge amount of resources into players that aren't interested in being here. We'll probably have some indication before the draft, and if Trouba isn't on board, he might be an interesting trade chip on the draft floor.

 

[Gm0ney]

It's quite funny to see Oilers fans try to convince themselves and others that Nurse is remotely close in value to Trouba on the trade board.

Someone should post the WARRIOR chart of those two...it's Trouba-AINEC-City.

 

[bustamente]

Don't think that Trouba will sign for anything less than what Reilly got. I know i'm in the minority but i wouldn't trade Trouba straight up for Reilly.

 

[robertocarlos]

Trouba will be a training camp holdout. He might even miss some regular season games.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

Someone should post the WARRIOR chart of those two...it's Trouba-AINEC-City.

Ouch. That's a pretty ugly comparison. Nurse has him beat in TOI though!

 

[ps241]

Ouch. That's a pretty ugly comparison. Nurse has him beat in TOI though!

Even worse when you realize Nurse has had the better D partner to work with which seems impossible

 

[Huffer]

Basically, I think that the Jets will be willing to pay full market value, and maybe a bit more, to sign Trouba long-term. But if they get a sense that he isn't really committed to being in Winnipeg long-term and his agent starts a bit of a dance to try to get him to UFA early, I think the Jets will trade him. I don't think they are going to put a huge amount of resources into players that aren't interested in being here. We'll probably have some indication before the draft, and if Trouba isn't on board, he might be an interesting trade chip on the draft floor.

I agree with your sentiment. I think they will take this approach with all players.

In Trouba's case we haven't heard anything to the contrary of him not wanting to be here (I did hear him on H&L saying he wanted to be here long term, but I don't know what else he's going to say on the radio after they set him up and mention Scheifele wanting to be here).

(I'm not saying that you think he doesn't want to stay here, I just wanted to say I think they will have this approach to all players, and to date I don't think we really know which way Trouba is leaning).

It will be very nice when both Trouba and Scheifele are locked up....(to contracts that is...)

 

[JetsFan815]

Basically, I think that the Jets will be willing to pay full market value, and maybe a bit more, to sign Trouba long-term. But if they get a sense that he isn't really committed to being in Winnipeg long-term and his agent starts a bit of a dance to try to get him to UFA early, I think the Jets will trade him. I don't think they are going to put a huge amount of resources into players that aren't interested in being here. We'll probably have some indication before the draft, and if Trouba isn't on board, he might be an interesting trade chip on the draft floor.

Except that the market value has been clearly established and it is closer to Maatta than to Reilly, even being at the same value as Reilly is going over market value let alone paying him even more than Reilly (unless you get more term from him)

 

[SKODEN]

I said it once and I will say it again. Imo Trouba is Bogo-esque.

 

[Bob E]

Wonder if a team like the Red Wings would offer sheet Trouba with a $6+ million/yr on 4 year term?

Jets may not want to go 4 yrs, and risk him leaving at first opportunity as a UFA.

Detroit may risk it, thinking they could sign a local kid once the deal is up.

 

[KingBogo]

Except that the market value has been clearly established and it is closer to Maatta than to Reilly, even being at the same value as Reilly is going over market value let alone paying him even more than Reilly (unless you get more term from him)

And I'm sure that will be Chevy's position. Trouba and his agent on the other hand might see things differently. I'm guite glad the previous comparables have been signed. I just have a few doubts that Trouba will dutifully comply with what he is told his market price is. Especially with an agent known for playing hard ball.

 

[KingBogo]

Wonder if a team like the Red Wings would offer sheet Trouba with a $6+ million/yr on 4 year term?

Jets may not want to go 4 yrs, and risk him leaving at first opportunity as a UFA.

Detroit may risk it, thinking they could sign a local kid once the deal is up.

I've been thinking as well that Detroit might be a team willing to try and poach Trouba. Maybe all they have to do is go $5.475 X 4 to keep the compensation to a 1st and 3rd in case Winnipeg doesn't match, but in the process set in motion him signing with whoever he wants at 26 y/o. Anyway you slice it I don't see it as being as easy as telling Trouba his market price and him saying gee thanks where do I sign?