Jacob Doty

[Renard]

I've seen a number of comments about Reaves being unimpressive this year, possibly playing with an injury.

This got me to thinking about who we have coming up as a tough guy. Its probably Jacob Doty.

Doty is with the Wolves. This is his first season, and he had a dandy fight in this first game. I saw the fight on the Wolves highlight clip. It looked like Doty was getting the worst of it, but after the fight, Doty looked fine and his opponent was bent over at the waste, holding is nose.

As I remember it, Doty was invited by the Blues to be on our Traverse City team a couple of years ago, and he won a contract by his play. He is a left hander and was previously listed as a center.

Can the guy play the game, or is he just a fighter?

Click to read more...

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

I've seen a number of comments about Reaves being unimpressive this year, possibly playing with an injury.

This got me to thinking about who we have coming up as a tough guy. Its probably Jacob Doty.

Doty is with the Wolves. This is his first season, and he had a dandy fight in this first game. I saw the fight on the Wolves highlight clip. It looked like Doty was getting the worst of it, but after the fight, Doty looked fine and his opponent was bent over at the waste, holding is nose.

As I remember it, Doty was invited by the Blues to be on our Traverse City team a couple of years ago, and he won a contract by his play. He is a left hander and was previously listed as a center.

Can the guy play the game, or is he just a fighter?

He actually isn't a bad player at all. Very good at tipping the puck and faceoffs as we found out in the preseason. Lost very few scraps and doesn't hurt you with his play. Toward the end of his junior days, he was having trouble finding a willing dance partner. I think he's being trained as Ott's replacement and just needs to play alot this year.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

He actually isn't a bad player at all. Very good at tipping the puck and faceoffs as we found out in the preseason. Lost very few scraps and doesn't hurt you with his play. Toward the end of his junior days, he was having trouble finding a willing dance partner. I think he's being trained as Ott's replacement and just needs to play alot this year.

I had really given up on the kid. Isn't he a STL native though?

I thought The Beach was our next ready tough guy? But maybe the NHL still isn't ready for him.

 

[KirkOut]

From what I've seen I don't think Doty's skating is nearly good enough to make it in the NHL.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

I had really given up on the kid. Isn't he a STL native though?

I thought The Beach was our next ready tough guy? But maybe the NHL still isn't ready for him.

You're thinking of Pochiro I believe.

 

[Renard]

I had really given up on the kid. Isn't he a STL native though?

I thought The Beach was our next ready tough guy? But maybe the NHL still isn't ready for him.

Beach has been in the minors for three years now (starting his fourth) and I haven't heard the current management talking about him much. He is 6' 5" tall, but under 200 pounds and he has been that way a couple of years. Is he heavy and strong enough to deal with NHL heavyweights? He is a very willing fighter, however.

I remember Davidson being enthusiastic about Beach, but I haven't heard anything good about Beach since JD left.

 

[BlueDream]

Beach won't be an NHL regular.

Doty seems possible. He needs to work on his skating but he's come a long way to get to where he is and I think he could be on the radar in the future, potentially. He does have 7 points in 16 AHL games so his skating doesn't seem to be holding him back from contributing. We'll see where the state of the game is though - if we even need a Reaves replacement in a couple years. But he's big and would certainly fit the criteria.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

You're thinking of Pochiro I believe.

Guilty. Thanks.

 

[yogintheaveragebears]

is he the one bill Armstrong referred to as a rat?

 

[Renard]

Beach won't be an NHL regular.

Doty seems possible. He needs to work on his skating but he's come a long way to get to where he is and I think he could be on the radar in the future, potentially. He does have 7 points in 16 AHL games so his skating doesn't seem to be holding him back from contributing. We'll see where the state of the game is though - if we even need a Reaves replacement in a couple years. But he's big and would certainly fit the criteria.

Maybe its Doty's fate to be the last Blues fighter. The league definitely seems to be bent on eliminating fighting from the game. If it happens, I'll still be a fan, but it was sure fun to see Bob Gassoff pounding guys back in the helmetless days.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

Maybe its Doty's fate to be the last Blues fighter. The league definitely seems to be bent on eliminating fighting from the game. If it happens, I'll still be a fan, but it was sure fun to see Bob Gassoff pounding guys back in the helmetless days.

Expect your stars to have short careers or skip to the KHL to prolong it. It's like Kelly Chase said last game. In days past, you didn't hit Gretzky or Yzerman without paying a dear price and the players understood it. Now the Tarasenkos and Petros are run at will. Bring it back. No one ever left for a beer, soda or bathroom break during a hockey fight.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Expect your stars to have short careers or skip to the KHL to prolong it. It's like Kelly Chase said last game. In days past, you didn't hit Gretzky or Yzerman without paying a dear price and the players understood it. Now the Tarasenkos and Petros are run at will. Bring it back. No one ever left for a beer, soda or bathroom break during a hockey fight.

Gretzky routinely had runs taken at him so I'm not sure where this idea that he was untouchable is coming from.

I find it very interesting that you're arguing for more goons to protect the stars when it's almost always goons throwing the cheapshots to begin with. Wouldn't we be better served getting rid of those talentless hacks to begin with? The argument basically becomes "we need goons to protect star players from the goons that we're employing to protect star players from goons."

Sorry but getting rocked by a clean hit doesn't need protecting from. Keep your head up and you won't get smoked.

 

[TK 421]

Expect your stars to have short careers or skip to the KHL to prolong it. It's like Kelly Chase said last game. In days past, you didn't hit Gretzky or Yzerman without paying a dear price and the players understood it. Now the Tarasenkos and Petros are run at will. Bring it back. No one ever left for a beer, soda or bathroom break during a hockey fight.

That would be great if that actually worked. You know what would be even better is if this poorly run dog and pony show would enforce it's own rules. That would go a long way to reducing players getting frustrated and taking justice with their fists.

Case in point, the most recent incident with Trouba targeting Brouwer's head. If Trouba gets a 1 game suspension, at least the league addressed it and he's on the radar. He'll know a worse suspension is coming if he does it again and THAT'S the deterrant. Meanwhile the Blues players will feel it was addressed and will be more likely to just focus on what's important, winning the game. But no...no that would make sense and well...the NHL can't have that. They would rather leave this for the players to work out amongst themselves. Cause as we all know, adrenaline fueled athletes engaged in a physical game against each other are perfect candidates to dispense justice in an appropriate manner.

 

[Chojin]

Expect your stars to have short careers or skip to the KHL to prolong it. It's like Kelly Chase said last game. In days past, you didn't hit Gretzky or Yzerman without paying a dear price and the players understood it. Now the Tarasenkos and Petros are run at will. Bring it back. No one ever left for a beer, soda or bathroom break during a hockey fight.

I don't understand why people think that enforcers were hockey's version of a nuclear deterrent, like they were only used in a defensive capacity. Even if enforcers did keep rats in check (and there's plenty of evidence to suggest otherwise), they perpetrated just as much dirty play as they would have prevented.

I would much rather the NHL start doling out serious punishments for dirty play, since every player wants to play and get paid, and no team likes paying money for a guy to sit out. That way, Doty would stay in the AHL and we could keep guys like Gomez or Upshall on our fourth line, which helps play a possession-based game.

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

I don't understand why people think that enforcers were hockey's version of a nuclear deterrent, like they were only used in a defensive capacity. Even if enforcers did keep rats in check (and there's plenty of evidence to suggest otherwise), they perpetrated just as much dirty play as they would have prevented.

I would much rather the NHL start doling out serious punishments for dirty play, since every player wants to play and get paid, and no team likes paying money for a guy to sit out. That way, Doty would stay in the AHL and we could keep guys like Gomez or Upshall on our fourth line, which helps play a possession-based game.

Watch this Brett Hull interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bg_jVad38ZI

He talks about how Momesso was basically on the team just to keep him safe. You're totally right, "enforcers" don't keep violence down, they propagate it... but they keep it away from the stars. If you want to fight, keep away from Mr. Hull and Mr. Tarasenko, and come fight me instead. Don't even breathe wrong around them, or else you're going to answer to me. That's what enforcers do. That's why we need our Edmundsons and Lindbohms and Bortuzzos on this team. Because the answer to 4 lines of possession hockey is to just smash everyone until they don't want to hold onto the puck anymore. You need that physicality and space creation in order for the fancy finesse stuff to work. You can't have one without the other.

 

[TK 421]

Watch this Brett Hull interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bg_jVad38ZI

He talks about how Momesso was basically on the team just to keep him safe. You're totally right, "enforcers" don't keep violence down, they propagate it... but they keep it away from the stars. If you want to fight, keep away from Mr. Hull and Mr. Tarasenko, and come fight me instead. Don't even breathe wrong around them, or else you're going to answer to me. That's what enforcers do. That's why we need our Edmundsons and Lindbohms and Bortuzzos on this team. Because the answer to 4 lines of possession hockey is to just smash everyone until they don't want to hold onto the puck anymore. You need that physicality and space creation in order for the fancy finesse stuff to work. You can't have one without the other.

Again, that's a lovely narrative but it's a fallacy IMO. Fighters aren't a deterrant to star players being targeted. I recall Buchburger having zero issue leveling Gretzky when the opportunity presented itself. There isn't enough time in most cases for a guy to pause and think about what retribution might come his way. I once said the same things about fighters being a deterrant because in theory, it sounds good and I wanted to believe that my team had some control over their own fate. My opinion has changed over the last bunch of years and now I think it's foolish to think that fighters have any where near that type of impact.

 

[KirkOut]

Watch this Brett Hull interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bg_jVad38ZI

He talks about how Momesso was basically on the team just to keep him safe. You're totally right, "enforcers" don't keep violence down, they propagate it... but they keep it away from the stars. If you want to fight, keep away from Mr. Hull and Mr. Tarasenko, and come fight me instead. Don't even breathe wrong around them, or else you're going to answer to me. That's what enforcers do. That's why we need our Edmundsons and Lindbohms and Bortuzzos on this team. Because the answer to 4 lines of possession hockey is to just smash everyone until they don't want to hold onto the puck anymore. You need that physicality and space creation in order for the fancy finesse stuff to work. You can't have one without the other.

Unfortunately it doesn't really work that way. If you're a heavy hitter, you know it's gonna charge up your team and the crowd way more of you level Vladimir Tarasenko than if you level Ryan Reaves. The physical game isn't just a back and forth between the enforcers

 

[Vladys Gumption]

In this day and age guys like John Scott are a detriment to the team. You're much better off having a guy that can actually play at an NHL level and who can fight as necessary, say like a Joel Edmundson.

 

[BlueDream]

Yeah that's why I put in my last post "if we even need a Reaves replacement in a few years". Enforcers are being phased out so Doty might not get a chance at all.

I like Reaves but his presence in the lineup has never stopped anyone from taking a run at one of our guys. It's just more important to have team toughness with guys who will see the ice regularly. That's why I like having Edmundson, Brodziak, Brouwer, and heck even Ott and Bortuzzo are playing pretty well. That's what you need.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

I like Reaves but his presence in the lineup has never stopped anyone from taking a run at one of our guys. It's just more important to have team toughness with guys who will see the ice regularly. That's why I like having Edmundson, Brodziak, Brouwer, and heck even Ott and Bortuzzo are playing pretty well. That's what you need.

This I can agree with. You guys know where I stand in the grit vs skill issue, but it is nice to have guys that can play that aren't afraid to get their noses dirty. I'm quite enjoying watching Edmundson so far.

 

[Renard]

Hockey players are human beings. Even NHL players can be intimidated. That's where the enforcers come into play.

Gretzky played most of his career with a goon on his wing. First it was Dave Semenko and then it was Marty McSorley. Neither of those latter two guy would have been in the NHL but for their fistic abilities. Gretzky could have been intimidated and his effectiveness greatly reduced without having one on those guys escort him up and down the ice.

 

[Renard]

This is slightly off topic, but I just remembered a time when Hull was our big star. The Blues were playing in Montreal, and Hull was checked hard into the boards by Vincent Damphousse. Hull was injured on the play and left the ice.

When the game resumed, they faced it off in the Montreal zone. Twist was on the ice for the Blues, and he chased our center out of the faceoff circle so he (Twist) could take the draw against Damphousse. When they dropped the puck, Twist dropped the gloves and pounded Damphousee.

I'll bet Damphousse was more delicate in his dealings with Hull after than.