Value of: Jacob Bernard Docker or Lassi Thomson

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Both players will require waivers next fall and neither guy is guaranteed a spot on the Sens blueline. JBD is turning 23 this summer and Lassi will turn 23 right before the season starts.

JBD is more of a stay-at-home, low-event DMan. He is a good skater and has some puck skills but plays a conservative game. He is the safer of the two to be an NHL player, and might be ready to be a 6 or 7 DMan this coming year. I would put his value higher and his chance of securing an NHL job in Ottawa higher than Lassi.

Lassi is a bit more of a dynamic player - good puck skills, big shot, some razzle dazzle, and a desire to make big hits. He doesnt always make the right decisions out there and hasn't shown an ability to be a high-end PP QB at the AHL level, which suggests his use on an NHL PP will be limited.

I suspect Ottawa will trade one of them and keep the other. I could see a swap for a forward in a similar position or a pick or two (say, in the 60-120 range). Any takers?

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[Ledge And Dairy]

I think Calgary would have interest in one of them as a #7 and replacement for Tanev if he goes down again. Would a deal around Vladar make any sense? Not sure if Ottawa is really planning to run with Forsberg Sogaard next year. Doesn't necessarily have to be one of these two but Calgary should definitely be thinking about their 24/25 blue line in the event more than a couple of their dmen walk

 

[SpezDispenser]

It really should be JBD going. Thomson has a nice upside as a 6th Dman soon enough.

I'm sure Ottawa would take a 3rd or so for JBD or an equivalent prospect.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

I think Calgary would have interest in one of them as a #7 and replacement for Tanev if he goes down again. Would a deal around Vladar make any sense? Not sure if Ottawa is really planning to run with Forsberg Sogaard next year. Doesn't necessarily have to be one of these two but Calgary should definitely be thinking about their 24/25 blue line in the event more than a couple of their dmen walk

I think Ottawa would jump at this

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I think Ottawa would jump at this

Personally I prefer JBD but either works. Would something around like JBD/Thomson + Gauthier for Vladar make any sense? Could use a 13th forward that's under 30 and has size imo

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Personally I prefer JBD but either works. Would something around like JBD/Thomson + Gauthier for Vladar make any sense? Could use a 13th forward that's under 30 and has size imo

Once again I think this would be a no-brainer for us. I'd prefer to keep Gauthier for ourselves in that role.... but G is more important & well worth the sacrifice.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Avs could also use a JBD if we had a 3rd round pick.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

Ottawa might keep both if Hamonic and Holden are not resigned.

Thomson and Bernard-Docker would have to split playing time as 6-7D, if that doesn’t work maybe Ottawa could sneak one of them though on waivers during training camp.

 

[Djp]

Both players will require waivers next fall and neither guy is guaranteed a spot on the Sens blueline. JBD is turning 23 this summer and Lassi will turn 23 right before the season starts.

JBD is more of a stay-at-home, low-event DMan. He is a good skater and has some puck skills but plays a conservative game. He is the safer of the two to be an NHL player, and might be ready to be a 6 or 7 DMan this coming year. I would put his value higher and his chance of securing an NHL job in Ottawa higher than Lassi.

Lassi is a bit more of a dynamic player - good puck skills, big shot, some razzle dazzle, and a desire to make big hits. He doesnt always make the right decisions out there and hasn't shown an ability to be a high-end PP QB at the AHL level, which suggests his use on an NHL PP will be limited.

I suspect Ottawa will trade one of them and keep the other. I could see a swap for a forward in a similar position or a pick or two (say, in the 60-120 range). Any takers?

. It will more likely be a player for player like D for F at same career point of being waiver eligible after ELC.

 

[jbeck5]

Ottawa might keep both if Hamonic and Holden are not resigned.

Thomson and Bernard-Docker would have to split playing time as 6-7D, if that doesn’t work maybe Ottawa could sneak one of them though on waivers during training camp.

I would actually be tempted to do that. Perhaps move on from brannstrom as he's had his chance.

Go with Chabot, Sanderson, Chychrun, Zub, kleven, JBD, Thomson.

Problem is that's a very green blue line despite being a very talented and deep Blueline.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

I would actually be tempted to do that. Perhaps move on from brannstrom as he's had his chance.

Go with Chabot, Sanderson, Chychrun, Zub, kleven, JBD, Thomson.

Problem is that's a very green blue line despite being a very talented and deep Blueline.

Brannstrom just had the best game of his career, trading him to make room for JBD or Thomson would be a big mistake imo. And I was almost certain this would be Branny's last year with us coming into the season.

Ottawa might keep both if Hamonic and Holden are not resigned.

Thomson and Bernard-Docker would have to split playing time as 6-7D, if that doesn’t work maybe Ottawa could sneak one of them though on waivers during training camp.

I think Ottawa will make a strong push to re-sign Hamonic and I think he is very motivated to stay. Not that anything is written in stone, but I would be shocked if that is not "Plan A".

. It will more likely be a player for player like D for F at same career point of being waiver eligible after ELC.

Haha, that's what I said!

 

[Brett44]

Avs could also use a JBD if we had a 3rd round pick.

Francouz for JBD
Macdermid for Thomson

 

[jbeck5]

Brannstrom just had the best game of his career, trading him to make room for JBD or Thomson would be a big mistake imo. And I was almost certain this would be Branny's last year with us coming into the season.

I think Ottawa will make a strong push to re-sign Hamonic and I think he is very motivated to stay. Not that anything is written in stone, but I would be shocked if that is not "Plan A".

Haha, that's what I said!

I've recorded the game as I'm at my GFs. I'll watch it today.

But my point was brannstrom has had plenty of opportunities to put up some numbers. While he hasn't done that, his defensive game has improved. My thinking is that hes producing more like a defensive defenseman...but if we're to have a defensive defenseman in the lineup, with only 6 spots available, I'd rather a kleven type on the third pair than a brannstrom who can't can't even put up 20 points a season while guys like Holden and Hamonic can.

 

[BondraTime]

Neither guy is worth much

JBD could be a competent bottom pairing/7th kind of guy for a team.

Thomson, can’t see any team wanting him in the lineup for extended periods. Too many brain dead plays.

 

[jbeck5]

Neither guy is worth much

JBD could be a competent bottom pairing/7th kind of guy for a team.

Thomson, can’t see any team wanting him in the lineup for extended periods. Too many brain dead plays.

Is he a player that makes more brain dead player in the AHL though?

Remember how many brain-dead plays weircioch did in the AHL? Not that he became a defensive defenseman, but at the NHL level they seemed to be cut in half.

Remember that whole "some players perform better in a NHL structure environment". As a first round draft pick with skill in a season where we're not making the playoffs, couldn't hurt to see if that's the case. JBD got his chance despite underwhelming play in the AHL. Why not Thomson?

 

[BondraTime]

Is he a player that makes more brain dead player in the AHL though?

Remember how many brain-dead plays weircioch did in the AHL? Not that he became a defensive defenseman, but at the NHL level they seemed to be cut in half.

Remember that whole "some players perform better in a NHL structure environment". As a first round draft pick with skill in a season where we're not making the playoffs, couldn't hurt to see if that's the case. JBD got his chance despite underwhelming play in the AHL. Why not Thomson?

Has made brain dead plays everywhere I’ve watched him, the largest issue with him since before the draft is decision making. Mann, prior to the firing, said the same. Lots of tools. No toolbox.

WHL
Liiga
AHL
NHL

JBD was our most consistent D in the AHL, by quite a bit. I’m all for calling up our youth, would have done that 5 games ago.

 

[jbeck5]

Has made brain dead plays everywhere I’ve watched him, it’s been the largest issue with him since before the draft. Lots of tools. No toolbox.

WHL
Liiga
AHL
NHL

JBD was our most consistent D in the AHL, by quite a bit. I’m all for calling up our youth, would have done that 5 games ago.

Sounds like plenty of players that have gotten many games with our senators over the years, including stronger teams that made the playoffs.

That's why I'm all for giving him a chance to see if he can play more structured at the NHL level. Maybe he will simplify his game instead of trying to do too much and looking stupid.

 

[BondraTime]

Sounds like plenty of players that have gotten many games with our senators over the years, including stronger teams that made the playoffs.

That's why I'm all for giving him a chance to see if he can play more structured at the NHL level. Maybe he will simplify his game instead of trying to do too much and looking stupid.

Let’s hope the NHL can fix it, has been 5 years with the same issues in 4 different leagues.

Has the skill.

 

[jbeck5]

Let’s hope the NHL can fix it, has been 5 years with the same issues in 4 different leagues.

Has the skill.

Sometimes it just takes humbling yourself. I'm assuming at every level except the NHL, he's probably expected to be a top line player with his skillset and former first round pick. Sometimes all it takes is realizing you're not as good as you think you are and settling into a lesser role.

Watching all these podcasts with ex and current NHLers, you hear a lot of stories of players who had to reinvent their game at the NHL level because they couldn't get off on skill alone. I've heard both methot and Yorkie say "almost every NHLer was the best player on their teams growing up and when they get to the NHL they realize they aren't the best and many times it take a year or two to reinvent their role. Learn to play a more simple grinding game as they aren't the star of the show anymore. There's an adjustment period.

Maybe (let's hope) Thomson just needs to realize he's a bottom pair defenseman, so if he can play it very safe and simple, his skilled tools can naturally go on display from time to time and be a very competent and effective 3rd pair guy who brings a bit of offense like a Corvo or something.

 

[Big Muddy]

I would actually be tempted to do that. Perhaps move on from brannstrom as he's had his chance.

Go with Chabot, Sanderson, Chychrun, Zub, kleven, JBD, Thomson.

Problem is that's a very green blue line despite being a very talented and deep Blueline.

Brannstrom's has been playing pretty well in recent games. He's also inexpensive. Our blueline does have a lot of LDs now though. Brannstrom would be an alright bottom pairing defender that can play on the 2nd PP unit somewhere in the league you'd think even if it's not Ottawa.

 

[jbeck5]

Brannstrom's has been playing pretty well in recent games. He's also inexpensive. Our blueline does have a lot of LDs now though. Brannstrom would be an alright bottom pairing defender that can play on the 2nd PP unit somewhere in the league you'd think even if it's not Ottawa.

For sure. I just don't see his fit. He's not going to get pp time here. He's going to be stuck on the third pair. I'd rather have a couple big mobile defenseman on the bottom pair. I think you need those bigger d guys for a big playoff run.

 

[TheNewEra]

I think at max both have a value of a 3rd round pick (it might even be less considering waivers). In theory ottawa could have something like

Chabot-Chychrun
Sanderson-Zub
Bran-JBD/Lassi

but that leaves a bit of a question mark on our third pairing and if Bran is a regular then we need more size on the opposite side. So i am fully expecting ottawa to sign/trade for a veteran bottom pairing dman that has a physical element. It is probably Hamonic being brought back but i would want someone with a bit more foot speed

I think between JBD/Lassi we will end up trading Lassi as he is more of an offensive guy and the sens need a defensive element in that #6 slot.

Lassi+ for a cost control goalie or Lassi for a pick would be the move imo. Vladar is an interesting suggestion but his extension might make it a bit tough cap wise and it would tie up both goaltending slots for same number of years. I wouldnt be mad if that happens but may need to look elsewhere. Really depends on what happens extension wise with Cat and Pinto

 

[sennysensen]

To be honest, neither guy has much value.

Maybe 3rd or 4th round picks at the most. Probably less.

It doesn't matter, as the Sens have 6 D that are NHL defenders, or probably will be. In order: Sanderson, Chychrun, Chabot, Zub, Brannstrom, Kleven.

I also hope they bring back Hamonic, though he has declined, he is a warrior, all-heart, a leader, and loved by teammates. He won't cost much, and is an ideal bottom pairing defenseman.

If Kleven is good, I can see them trading Chabot in a year or 2 so they can resign Chychrun.

 

[Big Muddy]

For sure. I just don't see his fit. He's not going to get pp time here. He's going to be stuck on the third pair. I'd rather have a couple big mobile defenseman on the bottom pair. I think you need those bigger d guys for a big playoff run.

Brannstrom has filled in on the PP when there's an injury, but yes, he won't get much action there with the Senators. That specific comment was more directed to what he might do (his role) if he were traded to another team.

 

[jbeck5]

I think at max both have a value of a 3rd round pick (it might even be less considering waivers). In theory ottawa could have something like

Chabot-Chychrun
Sanderson-Zub
Bran-JBD/Lassi

but that leaves a bit of a question mark on our third pairing and if Bran is a regular then we need more size on the opposite side. So i am fully expecting ottawa to sign/trade for a veteran bottom pairing dman that has a physical element. It is probably Hamonic being brought back but i would want someone with a bit more foot speed

I think between JBD/Lassi we will end up trading Lassi as he is more of an offensive guy and the sens need a defensive element in that #6 slot.

Lassi+ for a cost control goalie or Lassi for a pick would be the move imo. Vladar is an interesting suggestion but his extension might make it a bit tough cap wise and it would tie up both goaltending slots for same number of years. I wouldnt be mad if that happens but may need to look elsewhere. Really depends on what happens extension wise with Cat and Pinto

I think kleven is on the team next year. They don't give him a $600,000 signing bonus and then stick him in the AHL for a year.

I originally thought he would start the year in Belleville but the way everything is being handled sounds like they see him as a blue chipper that goes straight to the NHL.