Jack Hughes vs Suzuki vs Stützle

[Samsquanch]

Fox is better defensively than he is offensively. He'd be a top pairing defenseman if he never scored a point lol.

First, thats simply not true. Chara was a 50pt dman that was better defensively than he was offensively. But if he was a 5pt Dman with same defensive acumen, his legacy would be ca lot closer to Hal Gills than it would be Bobby Orr's right now...So no, hes not that amazing defensively that he can overwrite having no production and still be a #1D...weird attempt at a flex but ok

Second, my point stands that there is a notably high amount of Dmen on weaker teams that burst onto the scene and have their best years offensively early into their careers/in their early-mid 20's.. Only to see them shortly after take a step back offensively and ultimately move down the lineup on a true contending team.

Again I personally believe in Fox, hes smart and he defends well. And the talent is clearly there in abundance. But things can change in a hurry on the blueline, and finding consistency from year to year as a dman who plays nearly 25mins per game (ie being under the constant microscope lens of the fans and media) is incredibly hard to do on a winning team. Its the hardest ask in pro hockey imo.

Stutzle, no question. The kid is going to be a special, special player.

Hes got a scary high ceiling, and literally no foreseeable roadblocks in his game that should stop him from sprinting his way up to it.

Suzuki is obviously a non starter, but even taking Hughes takes some serious mental gymnastics to ignore the fact that Stutzle is already better, and likely going to be a superstar in this league someday. Hughes will be a great player and most likely a 1st line player someday. But at this point its like hoping for a red dwarf star to go super nova before the unstable white dwarf right next to it....

 

[Big Empty]

Suzuki is so underrated

 

[Xspyrit]

Suzuki is so underrated

How is he underrated? His young guns sells for more than Stutzle and Hughes for example. There's been a lot of hype around him for a while (IMO too much because of market). He's a great 2-way center, not taking away anything from him and I have relatively "praised" him for a while.

But that goal is nothing special IMO. Hellebucyk just froze too early, he didn't look very good on that one. It's a 2 on 1 and you have to take the shooter. He anticipated a pass (or a shot?), gambled badly and lost. He took away his "mobility" right away.

I actually think Suzuki OT goal vs the Leafs on a 2 on 0 (lol) was better.

 

[Agent Zub]

How is he underrated? His young guns sells for more than Stutzle and Hughes for example. There's been a lot of hype around him for a while (IMO too much because of market). He's a great 2-way center, not taking away anything from him and I have relatively "praised" him for a while.

But that goal is nothing special IMO. Hellebucyk just froze too early, he didn't look very good on that one. It's a 2 on 1 and you have to take the shooter. He anticipated a pass (or a shot?), gambled badly and lost. He took away his "mobility" right away.

I actually think Suzuki OT goal vs the Leafs on a 2 on 0 (lol) was better.

Come on, his creativity, quick thinking, hands and execution on that goal were pretty special. If Brady ever did that I would be mind blown.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

To me this looks a lot like a "Who would you rather have"?
Crosby/Kopitar or Ovi

1: Playmaking center, decent defender, great hands, questionable shot
2: Better 2 way game but isn't close offensively
3: Scoring winger, biggest shot of the 3, questionable defensively

I understand these guys probably don't live up to these comparables, so don't freak out

 

[Goomba]

First, thats simply not true. Chara was a 50pt dman that was better defensively than he was offensively. But if he was a 5pt Dman with same defensive acumen, his legacy would be ca lot closer to Hal Gills than it would be Bobby Orr's right now...So no, hes not that amazing defensively that he can overwrite having no production and still be a #1D...weird attempt at a flex but ok

Second, my point stands that there is a notably high amount of Dmen on weaker teams that burst onto the scene and have their best years offensively early into their careers/in their early-mid 20's.. Only to see them shortly after take a step back offensively and ultimately move down the lineup on a true contending team.

Again I personally believe in Fox, hes smart and he defends well. And the talent is clearly there in abundance. But things can change in a hurry on the blueline, and finding consistency from year to year as a dman who plays nearly 25mins per game (ie being under the constant microscope lens of the fans and media) is incredibly hard to do on a winning team. Its the hardest ask in pro hockey imo.




Hes got a scary high ceiling, and literally no foreseeable roadblocks in his game that should stop him from sprinting his way up to it.

Suzuki is obviously a non starter, but even taking Hughes takes some serious mental gymnastics to ignore the fact that Stutzle is already better, and likely going to be a superstar in this league someday. Hughes will be a great player and most likely a 1st line player someday. But at this point its like hoping for a red dwarf star to go super nova before the unstable white dwarf right next to it....

Stuetzle is not better than Hughes

if you ignore their play on the ice and stat watch, then sure. Luckily thats not how it actually works, though

 

[Samsquanch]

Stuetzle is not better than Hughes

if you ignore their play on the ice and stat watch, then sure. Luckily thats not how it actually works, though

 

[Goomba]

When Stuetzle leads over Jack in any single category, let me know

 

[Samsquanch]

When Stuetzle leads over Jack in any single category, let me know

Like points? Goals? Assists? Hockey magazine/analysts rankings? Hfboards public polls? What do you need man lol?

But in all honesty my man, nobody but Devils fans really care about Hughes. Im happy for you that your so high on him. Bye now.

 

[Goomba]

Like points? Goals? Assists? Hockey magazine rankings? Hfboards public polls? What do you need man lol?

But in all honesty my man, nobody but Devils fans really care about Hughes. Im happy for you that your so high on him. Bye now.

Its a poll involving Hughes, or are you so self-absorbed you thought its a poll of Stuetzle vs Stuetzle vs Stuetzle?

Hughes led the league in takeaways, did Stuetzle lead the league in anything defensive? Any stat at all? No? Weird.

Hughes was third in entries and exits, and second in offensive zone carry-ins (Barzal McDavid Hughes top-3 in both), was Stuetzle top-3 in any transition categories? No? Weird.

Hughes had high advanced stats such as corsi, offensively and defensively; meanwhile Stuetzle hid behind safe usage and better linemates.

Oh and since this conversation seems a bit difficult for you, let me break down the simple stats: Hughes had more points, one less goal, more assists, a much better +/- (Stuetzle is a net negative defensively, hence he isnt a center, you know, the more important position)..

all while Jack is a whopping half year older.

'Bye', next time you stop by make sure to read up on the subject first; pop quiz will be on the schedule

 

[Albatros]

Hughes led the league in takeaways

Mark Stone did. Hughes led all forwards in giveaways.

 

[goonybird]

Its a poll involving Hughes, or are you so self-absorbed you thought its a poll of Stuetzle vs Stuetzle vs Stuetzle?

Hughes led the league in takeaways, did Stuetzle lead the league in anything defensive? Any stat at all? No? Weird.

Hughes was third in entries and exits, and second in offensive zone carry-ins (Barzal McDavid Hughes top-3 in both), was Stuetzle top-3 in any transition categories? No? Weird.

Hughes had high advanced stats such as corsi, offensively and defensively; meanwhile Stuetzle hid behind safe usage and better linemates.

Oh and since this conversation seems a bit difficult for you, let me break down the simple stats: Hughes had more points, one less goal, more assists, a much better +/- (Stuetzle is a net negative defensively, hence he isnt a center, you know, the more important position)..

all while Jack is a whopping half year older.

'Bye', next time you stop by make sure to read up on the subject first; pop quiz will be on the schedule

Hughes was 2nd in takeaways, not that it makes any difference.

 

[Big Empty]

 

[SotasicA]

Well, it's Stutzle or Hughes. I went with Hughes. Suzuki is a distant third.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Surprised Hughes is holding is own in this, thought it would the Stutzle by a HUGE margin, just because these boards love him soooo much and hate Jack Hughes

 

[Oneiro]

I love this thread because it is going to be comical inside of two years.

 

[Wierzbowski426]

Mark Stone did. Hughes led all forwards in giveaways.

Was gonna let this go but nah... you should stop posting this as if its a negative. Players who have the puck the most give the puck away the most usually. Look at the rest of the names leading the league in giveaways and then stop posting this about Jack to crap on him.

 

[Albatros]

How much is your sheltered possession worth if you play rather low minutes on even strength, have only few defensive zone starts, and still lead the league in giveaways?

 

[Goomba]

Mark Stone did. Hughes led all forwards in giveaways.

And every forward right behind Hughes in giveaways is an all star

or did you leave that part out on purpose?

 

[Samsquanch]

And every forward right behind Hughes in giveaways is an all star

or did you leave that part out on purpose?

Giveaways dont just become a good stat because those elite players also commit them. JFC...

Giveaways get overlooked as production goes up. And they are a bad thing, period. You dont want your name on the top of that list. Period.

A 0.5ppg giveaway leader is predictably playing in a mismatched role on a horrendously bad team.... oh my friggin lord lol.

 

[Galaxydoggystyle]

Not sure who is going to be better but Suzuki is getting a ton of playoff experience and hes just getting better and better every season. If anything Suzuki might be the most "important" player of the three since hes been playing in every situation in the playoffs at the age of 20 and doesn't really look out of place.

If the other two are on shit teams for years to come how are they going to rack up playoff experience to actually learn how to win? And I don't mean in the regular season I mean where it really matters the playoffs.

I think it really comes down to the teams themselves and if the Sens and the Devils can even make it into the playoffs so there young stars can start learning how to win when it really matters. Yes I know Suzuki is two years older then the others but do you guys see the Sens or the Devils making the playoffs in two years? and if they do actually play long enough for them to experience winning rounds?

Also I didn't vote. Cause I can be totally wrong on my assessment lol

 

[goonybird]

Giveaways dont just become a good stat because those elite players also commit them. JFC...

Giveaways get overlooked as production goes up. And they are a bad thing, period. You dont want your name on the top of that list. Period.

A 0.5ppg giveaway leader is predictably playing in a mismatched role on a horrendously bad team.... oh my friggin lord lol.

Doesn't make Hughes bad defensively though.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

https://twitter.com/hockeystatscz/status/1372659122303344643?s=21

 

[SensBrawler]

https://twitter.com/hockeystatscz/status/1372659122303344643?s=21

That's comparing a sophomore season to a rookie season though. There's often a huge adjustment period for players like Stutzle/Hughes in their rookie season, so an extra off-season can be very beneficial. If you compare their rookie seasons analytically, it's much more similar.

Breaking Down Jack Hughes' Disappointing Rookie Season - JFresh’s Newsletter (substack.com)

 

[Goomba]

That's comparing a sophomore season to a rookie season though. There's often a huge adjustment period for players like Stutzle/Hughes in their rookie season, so an extra off-season can be very beneficial. If you compare their rookie seasons analytically, it's much more similar.

Breaking Down Jack Hughes' Disappointing Rookie Season - JFresh’s Newsletter (substack.com)

Except Stuetzle was in a mens league prior; so in reality Jacks sophomore year, where theyre only six months apart, Is a more accurate representation of two guys in their second years of pro hockey