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Value of: Ivan Provorov

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HockeyVirus said:
That's because as I said in that quote, you are a small market able to go under the radar. No one is paying attention to CBJ no offense. Go to a team like the Rangers in your example it will be in national headlines
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The Rangers aren't making national headlines unless they win the Stanley Cup. Everything that happens in the NHL is under the radar because that's the status of hockey in the US.
 
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majormajor said:
He took a big dip in his last couple years as a Flyer. He's been on the way up as a Jacket. Don't pretend to know better than people who still watch him.
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It's odd you're so combative on this, i came into this thread saying he had more value than most would give him credit for.

OK though, you're right. He's a #1 defenseman again like he was for a while with the Flyers.
 
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CBJ will have to take back equal salary in order to remain cap compliant for the lower limit.
 
biturbo19 said:
Yeah. I'd expect at 50% retention, it'd be Hoggy+1st. Figuring that out is probably the biggest stumbling block. The way Ruthervin do business though, i'd expect some else they want coming back from Columbus as well. Not sure what that is.

Kind of scared it'd be Zach Ass-Reese.
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ZAR has actually been very effective over here, so I don't think he'd be thrown in.
 
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Did CBJ release the extent of his injury yet?

Looked like broke his thumb/hand in Vancouver the other night.

Hoping for a speedy recovery. I like the player alot and would love to trade for him.
 
UrbanImpact said:
Did CBJ release the extent of his injury yet?

Looked like broke his thumb/hand in Vancouver the other night.

Hoping for a speedy recovery. I like the player alot and would love to trade for him.
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FWIW, team doctors cleared him from whatever undisclosed injury he had with the caveat that he couldn't make it any worse laying through it. It's all down to his ability to manage the pain.

"After reviewing X-rays of Provorov’s thumb, however, the Blue Jackets medical staff has cleared him to resume play as soon as he can tolerate the discomfort. Without getting into details, Waddell said Provorov couldn’t do further harm to the thumb by playing."

 
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Great example of someone who needed time in the AHL to round out his game, but a team pushed a kid because he showed he could play well in the NHL at a young age.

What happens with dmen who play too early, at least 90% of the time is, they end up just a little better version of what we see their rookie year. Only getting better with natural maturity and experience NOT working on any weaknesses they may have.

The NHL just isn’t a developmental league, and you just don’t have enough free time to work on your issues. When you put up 30 points as a 19 year old in the NHL, you think it’s all gonna come so easy and it usually doesn’t. For the ones it does, they’re a usually the elite of the elite.

Very few kids play early and keep getting better and better. Sergachev did, but Tampa sheltered him big time. Unfortunately the part of their game that never seems to evolve into being elite, is the defensive end of things. Provorov really is the same player he was at 19, except for he’s been around so long, every team knows how to play against him.

So let’s take Clarke and Edvinsson for example. Both over marinated a little last season.. they’re both better all-around dmen, then they would’ve been if LA and DET just threw them to the wolves last year. NJ got smart with Nemec this year, but they may want to worry a little about Hughes ever being a complete dman. The good thing with him is, he and his brothers are so competitive, he’s gonna find the time to work on his game each summer.

The worst part with Provorov is, we seen flashes of him being more of a complete dman. He just only got better with that experience and maturity, for 2-3 years and then flatlined, developmentally.

At this point, he is what he is. Maybe with the right partner, we see him excel with what he’s good at, while his partner shelters his faults. Not sure I’d let him carry a pairing for a good team though.

He’s likely to still get that late 1st, and the team that gives the best secondary item, probably lands him at the deadline.

If he’s traded in the next 45 days or so, it’ll be more of a hockey trade where the team will definitely want to re-sign him. In a trade like that, the value is probably close to the same but it might be a current NHLer in return, rather than that 1st Rounder.

He can still be a pretty productive player. His role has to be more of a support role though. He just never took those next steps great players do.
 
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Petes2424 said:
Great example of someone who needed time in the AHL to round out his game, but a team pushed a kid because he showed he could play well in the NHL at a young age.

What happens with dmen who play too early, at least 90% of the time is, they end up just a little better version of what we see their rookie year. Only getting better with natural maturity and experience NOT working on any weaknesses they may have.

The NHL just isn’t a developmental league, and you just don’t have enough free time to work on your issues. When you put up 30 points as a 19 year old in the NHL, you think it’s all gonna come so easy and it usually doesn’t. For the ones it does, they’re a usually the elite of the elite.

Very few kids play early and keep getting better and better. Sergachev did, but Tampa sheltered him big time. Unfortunately the part of their game that never seems to evolve into being elite, is the defensive end of things. Provorov really is the same player he was at 19, except for he’s been around so long, every team knows how to play against him.

So let’s take Clarke and Edvinsson for example. Both over marinated a little last season.. they’re both better all-around dmen, then they would’ve been if LA and DET just threw them to the wolves last year. NJ got smart with Nemec this year, but they may want to worry a little about Hughes ever being a complete dman. The good thing with him is, he and his brothers are so competitive, he’s gonna find the time to work on his game each summer.
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There's quite a few exceptions to your theory, and FWIW Devils fans are raving about L Hughes complete game.

Petes2424 said:
The worst part with Provorov is, we seen flashes of him being more of a complete dman. He just only got better with that experience and maturity, for 2-3 years and then flatlined, developmentally.

At this point, he is what he is. Maybe with the right partner, we see him excel with what he’s good at, while his partner shelters his faults. Not sure I’d let him carry a pairing for a good team though.
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I don't recognize the player from this description. He is a complete player and doesn't have a lot of faults. He doesn't have a lot of high end either.

So many comments in his thread are people getting stuck in his pedigree and of course obviously not watching him this year. He's like a regular boring #3 D-man. You wouldn't guess that he was supposed to be a star in his youth and you wouldn't guess that he was a bad player a few years ago. The actual Ivan Provorov, the current NHL player, is completely absent in your post.
 
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I really don't think the 3D on the 12th place team in the East should command a 1st+ as a rental.
And I assume the Blue Jackets want a blue chip D prospect. They have so, so many young forwards.

If you let Florida negotiate and extension, we could offer the 2026 1st and Gracyn Sawchyn, but I wouldn't blame you for turning that down.
 
alphafox said:
1st and a 3rd or a D prospect maybe like a Tom Willander (might require more coming back depending on how willing at team is to mortgage their future)? Waddell clearly wants to overhaul our Blueline and wants assets to make a deal for an impact player as he's already said that's his ideal plan for the MN pick. I assume DW's plan is primarily to add to the warchest so the draft assets are the primary target.
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He’s worth more than you think I’m afraid
 
kerrabria said:
I really don't think the 3D on the 12th place team in the East should command a 1st+ as a rental.
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He’s our #2D. 3D on contender.
kerrabria said:
And I assume the Blue Jackets want a blue chip D prospect. They have so, so many young forwards.

If you let Florida negotiate and extension, we could offer the 2026 1st and Gracyn Sawchyn, but I wouldn't blame you for turning that down.
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CBJ defenseman at the TDL:
2021 David Savard for 1st + 3rd
2023 Vlad Gavrikov for 1st + 3rd*
2024 Andrew Peeke for 3rd

He’s going to get retained and sold at 2.36mill and you don’t think that’s worth a first?

Not worth a first at the TDL, but you are willing to sign him to an extension and add to a first to do so?
 
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I.Provorov (41.8% retained) - 2.750

for

OTT 2nd
OTT 3rd (2026)
X.Bourgault
A.Forsberg (cap purposes) - 2.750

Probably gets beat but that would be my opening offer. I'm willing to pay more tbh, but not a 1st (OTT's pick will be too high), and we have a limited prospect pool. The 2nd would currently be a high 2nd FWIW.
 
KevinRedkey said:
I.Provorov (41.8% retained) - 2.750

for

OTT 2nd
OTT 3rd (2026)
X.Bourgault
A.Forsberg (cap purposes) - 2.750

Probably gets beat but that would be my opening offer. I'm willing to pay more tbh, but not a 1st (OTT's pick will be too high), and we have a limited prospect pool. The 2nd would currently be a high 2nd FWIW.
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Why does Columbus do this?

kerrabria said:
I really don't think the 3D on the 12th place team in the East should command a 1st+ as a rental.
And I assume the Blue Jackets want a blue chip D prospect. They have so, so many young forwards.
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What does where we're at in the standings have to do with an individual player? When has that ever mattered at the TDL? He's averaging more than 23 minutes a night, how is that a 3d? Nobodies asking for a blue chip prospect for him. This whole post is nonsense.
FrolikFan67 said:
Can he play the right side comfortably?
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He played the right side with Werenski for a stretch this year and did way better than anybody expected.
 
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Just a question, but is the pout still evident when he doesn’t get his way?

I like Ivan as a player but the pouting was killer to have to deal with.

He still has value and if they’ll be retention on him, the value even goes up.
 
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