Player Discussion: Ivan Provorov

[ColumbusTrill]

I wouldn’t use “very good” to describe Provorov. Also, let’s not forget he is in a contract year. Don’t judge whether he should be extended only on this season.

To play devil's advocate I don't think it's fair to judge him based off of last year's coaching disaster. He's been quite good this year. If we go the FA route there will always be the question of if he's a good fit and if we overpayed. At least if we keep Provorov we know the fit is already good

 

[koteka]

To play devil's advocate I don't think it's fair to judge him based off of last year's coaching disaster. He's been quite good this year. If we go the FA route there will always be the question of if he's a good fit and if we overpayed. At least if we keep Provorov we know the fit is already good

I think you also need to consider his last couple of years in Philadelphia and how the Flyers defense improved when he left. Signing him based on one year (a contract year) is a huge gamble. Nobody in Philadelphia regrets that trade.

 

[ColumbusTrill]

I think you also need to consider his last couple of years in Philadelphia and how the Flyers defense improved when he left. Signing him based on one year (a contract year) is a huge gamble. Nobody in Philadelphia regrets that trade.

He was also their #1 D. Clearly he isn't a 1, but he is a legit Top 4 guy. I also don't think him leaving was the reason their defense improved. Torts getting their certainly has played an impact but even so it ranked 23rd (in Provorov's last and Tort's 1st year there), 18th last year, and now 27th. Not seeing much correlation.

 

[koteka]

He was also their #1 D. Clearly he isn't a 1, but he is a legit Top 4 guy. I also don't think him leaving was the reason their defense improved. Torts getting their certainly has played an impact but even so it ranked 23rd (in Provorov's last and Tort's 1st year there), 18th last year, and now 27th. Not seeing much correlation.

If you pay him as a middle of the pack left D and give him something like 3 x $4.25, I could live with that. But he’ll probably want 7 x $8 and he isn’t worth anywhere near that. We are at risk of being two years away from having a bottom pair with a $14 million cap hit.

 

[VT]

I wouldn’t use “very good” to describe Provorov. Also, let’s not forget he is in a contract year. Don’t judge whether he should be extended only on this season.

Although I agree with you in 99%, this belongs to 1%.

 

[ColumbusTrill]

If you pay him as a middle of the pack left D and give him something like 3 x $4.25, I could live with that. But he’ll probably want 7 x $8 and he isn’t worth anywhere near that. We are at risk of being two years away from having a bottom pair with a $14 million cap hit.

You think Severson and Provorov would be our bottom pair??? They have been our best unit in terms of xGF% (56%).

Sign Provorov to something like 6.5x6. Resign Fabbro to a modest deal. Have Mateychuck and Christiansen for cheap on the bottom pair. This wouldn't be a bad allocation of resources imo

 

[Nanabijou]

Kick the tires on an extension prior to the trade deadline. Despite his play this year, I'm not super comfortable with a contract north of 7x7, which is probably the floor to what it will take. But, it's worth having the discussion with his agent to see what they are thinking.

 

[koteka]

You think Severson and Provorov would be our bottom pair??? They have been our best unit in terms of xGF% (56%).

In two to three seasons, yes. Provorov might be there next year if the Mateychuk hype is real. Or if he starts playing crappy hockey again after signing a new contract.

 

[ColumbusTrill]

In two to three seasons, yes. Provorov might be there next year if the Mateychuk hype is real. Or if he starts playing crappy hockey again after signing a new contract.

Who would you rather us sign? I also think provorov has another 4ish seasons in his prime

 

[koteka]

Who would you rather us sign? I also think provorov has another 4ish seasons in his prime

If Mateychuk is a 2 LD, then nobody. Run ZW, Mateychuk, and Christiansen or someone else on the left side. Go looking for a right D. Don’t waste money on left D and middle six wings!!! Did we learn nothing from Jarmo?

If you think Provorov has 4 prime seasons left, and we are at least 2 years away from being ready to make a serious Cup run, Provorov seems like a stupid guy to sign for 6 or 7 years.

 

[ColumbusTrill]

If Mateychuk is a 2 LD, then nobody. Run ZW, Mateychuk, and Christiansen or someone else on the left side. Go looking for a right D. Don’t waste money on left D and middle six wings!!! Did we learn nothing from Jarmo?

If you think Provorov has 4 prime seasons left, and we are at least 2 years away from being ready to make a serious Cup run, Provorov seems like a stupid guy to sign for 6 or 7 years.

I’d like to se who you are thinking of so I can understand your viewpoint.

Like, no option is perfect. Signing a veteran player like provorov will probably be more expensive than anyone wants

Filling the D with cheaper stopgaps won’t make us much better

We’re also a small market team without any real historic success. We’re going to have to overpay whoever we get

Trading for a young stud D isn’t that realistic. Why would teams be looking to deal someone like that? Plus we’d be giving up huge assets

In the end Provorov helps us get to the next step - the playoffs - sooner. It also helps us develop a guy like Denton properly. Just because we are 2 years away from a cup run doesn’t mean we can try to field a good, competitive playoff team until then. Taking our lumps in the playoffs would be the best thing for this org

 

[Napoli]

I’d like to se who you are thinking of so I can understand your viewpoint.

Like, no option is perfect. Signing a veteran player like provorov will probably be more expensive than anyone wants

Filling the D with cheaper stopgaps won’t make us much better

We’re also a small market team without any real historic success. We’re going to have to overpay whoever we get

Trading for a young stud D isn’t that realistic. Why would teams be looking to deal someone like that? Plus we’d be giving up huge assets

In the end Provorov helps us get to the next step - the playoffs - sooner. It also helps us develop a guy like Denton properly. Just because we are 2 years away from a cup run doesn’t mean we can try to field a good, competitive playoff team until then. Taking our lumps in the playoffs would be the best thing for this org

People are trying to rush this rebuild. Count me out on signing an overpriced dman just to make the playoffs and get obliterated. Let the cup run be legitimate and do in a way where you aren't pigeon holed for 7 years

Do people really want another Severson?

 

[ColumbusTrill]

People are trying to rush this rebuild. Count me out on signing an overpriced dman just to make the playoffs and get obliterated. Let the cup run be legitimate and do in a way where you aren't pigeon holed for 7 years

Do people really want another Severson?

What is your suggestion then? I don't want to straight up replace Provorov with Mateychuk. That seems like a recipe for a step backwards

What does a legitimate cup run mean? Is that the only way to build a cup contender?

Severson has been good for us this year! And he's probably going to be good for us for the next 3-4 years.

I hope we're not only relying on prospects and waiver wire additions to round out our team going forward. We need good, established players to keep improving each season.

 

[koteka]

What is your suggestion then?

If we didn’t trade for Severson we could have outbid Washington for Matt Roy the following off season. That is the move we should have made. I don’t know who will be available in a year, but rushing to be a borderline playoff team is not how I think we build a Cup contender.

Provorov sucked at the end of his time in Philadelphia. Most of HF Flyers would have offered him to us for future considerations and been happy. They were over the moon that they got the return they did. Provorov started off ok last year and then sucked most of the season. Now that he is in a contract year, he actually is playing ok. Not very good. Ok. Like middle of the pack LD2. That is not special. He is much more likely to revert to 21-22, 22-23, or 23-24 Provorov than partial season 24-25 Provorov. Whoever gives him more than about 4 years of $16 million is stupid. That next contract is going to look bad. The one good thing about Provorov playing well in a contract season is that he has raised his trade value.

 

[Cowumbus]

What is your suggestion then? I don't want to straight up replace Provorov with Mateychuk.

funny because that’s exactly what I want

 

[MoeBartoli]

That was supposed to be Jiricek..

Until it wasn’t

 

[ColumbusTrill]

funny because that’s exactly what I want

Don't get me wrong I love him too but I don't want him stepping in and immediately playing 24 mpg

 

[thebus88]

Mateychuk > Provorov

It’s that simple. And that’s without taking money into account.

IMO

Don't get me wrong I love him too but I don't want him stepping in and immediately playing 24 mpg

Well, you should.

 

[Napoli]

What is your suggestion then? I don't want to straight up replace Provorov with Mateychuk. That seems like a recipe for a step backwards

What does a legitimate cup run mean? Is that the only way to build a cup contender?

Severson has been good for us this year! And he's probably going to be good for us for the next 3-4 years.

I hope we're not only relying on prospects and waiver wire additions to round out our team going forward. We need good, established players to keep improving each season.

Mateychuk has a pretty good chance of replacing Provorov well. Severson is a liability defensively and he's making pretty good money for it too.

I truly rather build the defense around good defensive dmen who can skate. Provorov is better than Severson but both of them together is going to take up a boat load of cap space for guys who just aren't that impressive. Neither of them are great defensively, shout out Jarmo.

This team still needs to draft elite talent, right now they have Mateychuk and Werenski. There could potentially be a trade option this off season if they trade Provorov but otherwise, the team still needs to keep building. Wonder what 3 1sts could bring back in a trade.

This can't be fast tracked and yes, building the right core and then going all in, is the proper way to contend for a Cup and do it for many years.