U18: Ivan Hlinka Memorial - Team Switzerland

[Speyer]

Really? I don't recall 2000 having exceptional depth. Two very good goalies but skaterwise it was nothing special. We got three NHLers out of the group but in terms of depth I'd say it was an average group at best. Certainly nothing like the 06 kids.

I think it was one of the deeper classes in recent memory. Certainly not as deep as 96/97 and probably not as deep as 06 either but deeper than a lot of the birth years in between. Maybe it doesn't look as good in retrospect as some of the prospects had disappointing careers. You have already mentioned the two good goalie prospects. On top of that there was Hollenstein at "number three". I know you are very low on him but he was still decent in his first WJC. So thats an above average goaltending group overall. Then on D you had a very good top 4 for our standards consisting of Moser, Berni, Aebischer and Gross. This group played very well together at the WJC. Aebischer looked just as good if not better than Moser at the time. Unfortunately he didn't develop nearly as well after that. Then there were some solid players in Henauer and Barandun to round out the D-group. The forwards weren't as good. But Nussbaumer still played at the WJC in his D-1 year and was considered a potential first rounder when he was the same age as Reber and Co. are now. Stephane Patry was also considered a big talent early on but dropped of the map rather soon. Then there were a few other pretty solid forwards for our standards. Guys like Gerber, Kohler, Verboon, Schmid, Weibel, Sopa, Wetter, Mettler etc.

 

[Hinterland]

I think it was one of the deeper classes in recent memory. Certainly not as deep as 96/97 and probably not as deep as 06 either but deeper than a lot of the birth years in between. Maybe it doesn't look as good in retrospect as some of the prospects had disappointing careers. You have already mentioned the two good goalie prospects. On top of that there was Hollenstein at "number three". I know you are very low on him but he was still decent in his first WJC. So thats an above average goaltending group overall. Then on D you had a very good top 4 for our standards consisting of Moser, Berni, Aebischer and Gross. This group played very well together at the WJC. Aebischer looked just as good if not better than Moser at the time. Unfortunately he didn't develop nearly as well after that. Then there were some solid players in Henauer and Barandun to round out the D-group. The forwards weren't as good. But Nussbaumer still played at the WJC in his D-1 year and was considered a potential first rounder when he was the same age as Reber and Co. are now. Stephane Patry was also considered a big talent early on but dropped of the map rather soon. Then there were a few other pretty solid forwards for our standards. Guys like Gerber, Kohler, Verboon, Schmid, Weibel, Sopa, Wetter, Mettler etc.

Nah, I was never a fan of the 2000 group. Hollenstein was always a poor goalie, should have never played over Charlin or Schmid. I actually even remember being upset about underagers like Pezzullo, Jobin or Salzgeber not getting enough ice time. I admit I was completely wrong on Moser but the rest of that group never got me excited. Besides the goalie duo I always liked Berni a lot and I was also relatively high on Aebischer and Verboon. That was about it though.

 

[Speyer]

Nah, I was never a fan of the 2000 group. Hollenstein was always a poor goalie, should have never played over Charlin or Schmid. I actually even remember being upset about underagers like Pezzullo, Jobin or Salzgeber not getting enough ice time. I admit I was completely wrong on Moser but the rest of that group never got me excited. Besides the goalie duo I always liked Berni a lot and I was also relatively high on Aebischer and Verboon. That was about it though.

Even if you completely ignore Hollenstein, Schmid and Charlin was still an above average duo. And every player of the trio Aebischer, Berni, Moser was better than any D men from 01,02,03 and 05. The forward group was also better or at least more or less on par with those of 01-05. Maybe 02 was better idk. I mean sure its fine if you don't get exited about this group but that just shows how much we have sucked lately as a hockey program. But depth wise it has still be the best birth year of the new millennium so far, that has been eligible for the draft already.

 

[Hinterland]

Even if you completely ignore Hollenstein, Schmid and Charlin was still an above average duo. And every player of the trio Aebischer, Berni, Moser was better than any D men from 01,02,03 and 05. The forward group was also better or at least more or less on par with those of 01-05. Maybe 02 was a little bit better idk. I mean sure its fine if you don't get exited about this group but that just shows how much we have sucked lately as a hockey program. But depth wise it has still be the best birth year so far of the new millenium, that has been eligible for the draft so far.

I disagree. I agree the goalie duo was very good but roster depth was average at best. As I mentioned with this group, I always liked the underagers better than the 2000 kids. Salzgeber and Jobin were impact players, just never got enough ice time. Knak was better than all 2000 forwards at a pretty young age. I think I was even upset when Alessandro Villa didn't make the roster or didn't get significant ice time. Tells you everything you need to know.

 

[Kuracmugger]

I disagree. I agree the goalie duo was very good but roster depth was average at best. As I mentioned with this group, I always liked the underagers better than the 2000 kids. Salzgeber and Jobin were impact players, just never got enough ice time. Knak was better than all 2000 forwards at a pretty young age. I think I was even upset when Alessandro Villa didn't make the roster or didn't get significant ice time. Tells you everything you need to know.

Our 2019 team who had a lot of 2000 born overagers was 4th place in the WJC and our recent years mostly got trashed in the quarters so the 2000 group is the best in the millennial years IMO. The 2001 birth year is probably the worst along with 2005 with 0 draft picks in their respectable draft years and no success in the international tournaments, in 2019 the 01 even had to play relegation against slovakia and survived mostly because of the 02 underagers. Regarding Draft picks 02 has 1 03 has 1 04 has 2 and 00 has 5.

 

[Speyer]

I disagree. I agree the goalie duo was very good but roster depth was average at best. As I mentioned with this group, I always liked the underagers better than the 2000 kids. Salzgeber and Jobin were impact players, just never got enough ice time. Knak was better than all 2000 forwards at a pretty young age. I think I was even upset when Alessandro Villa didn't make the roster or didn't get significant ice time. Tells you everything you need to know.

Salzgeber and Jobin were decent. But the were not clearly ahead of the better 00 forwards. They were always very pedestrian prospects with limited upside. You could see that very clearly in their last WJC where they were completely neutered. Ok Salzgeber got hurt in that tournament but Jobin played every game and wasn't able to generate any offense. Its not an accident both of them are barely pro players right now while some 00 forwards are at least on track for a decent NL career. As far as Knak goes sure, you can make that argument but his impact wasn't that much above Nussbaumers either. He had a very good WJC in his draft year but disappointed in the tournaments after that.

I guess it really comes down on how you want to interpret the term depth. From the 06 class you could probably form two teams that could beat the 05 birth year. With 00's it was rather that you had like 5 players with NHL upside and the rest of the group was somewhat average.

 

[Speyer]

Our 2019 team who had a lot of 2000 born overagers was 4th place in the WJC and our recent years mostly got trashed in the quarters so the 2000 group is the best in the millennial years IMO. The 2001 birth year is probably the worst along with 2005 with 0 draft picks in their respectable draft years and no success in the international tournaments, in 2019 the 01 even had to play relegation against slovakia and survived mostly because of the 02 underagers. Regarding Draft picks 02 has 1 03 has 1 04 has 2 and 00 has 5.

Also the 2020 team, that was almost completely carried by the 00's, at least finished second in their group ahead of Finland and Slovakia. The 21 team that should have been carried by the 01's finished dead last and was the worst one in recent memory. And the best players on that team were arguably the 02's Knak and Allenspach. Sure there were some questionable roster and coaching decisions back then but that doesn't change the fact the 01 was a terrible birth year in regard to both high end talent and depth.

 

[Kuracmugger]

Also the 2020 team that was completely carried by the 00's at least finished second in their group ahead of Finland and Slovakia. The 21 team that should have been carried by the 01's finished dead last and was the worst in recent memory. And the best players on that team were arguably the 02's Knak and Allenspach. Sure there were some questionable roster and coaching decisions back then but that doesn't change the fact the 01 was a terrible birth year in both high end talent and depth.

I completely agree, i think the 2021 wjc was probably the worst year to watch. We even lost against team germany who only had stützle and pretty much nobody else and a not really strong team slovakia. The team was constructed poorly and players like ray fust and stefano bottini were selected as underagers who weren’t even a part of two of the teams in the next year with the summer wjc. Furthermore players like gaetan jobin played fourth line but you already mentioned coaching issues.

 

[Hinterland]

Salzgeber and Jobin were decent. But the were not clearly ahead of the better 00 forwards. They were always very pedestrian prospects with limited upside. You could see that very clearly in their last WJC where they were completely neutered. Ok Salzgeber got hurt in that tournament but Jobin played every game and wasn't able to generate any offense. Its not an accident both of them are barely pro players right now while some 00 forwards are at least on track for a decent NL career. As far as Knak goes sure, you can make that argument but his impact wasn't that much above Nussbaumers either. He had a very good WJC in his draft year but disappointed in the tournaments after that.

I guess it really comes down on how you want to interpret the term depth. From the 06 class you could probably form two teams that could beat the 05 birth year. With 00's it was rather that you had like 5 players with NHL upside and the rest of the group was somewhat average.

Jobin never really got any ice time. Defense of the 2000 group was very good. Berni was a beast, Gross and Moser were solid, Aebischer was skilled and dynamic. The rest was trash though. Pezzullo was way better. Even Guggenheim and Villa were. So no, no depth.
Upfront, depth was even worse. There were Nussbaumer and Verboon and that was it. The next best players were always underagers. Jobin and Salzgeber were never gonna be stars but they were better than all 2000 born forwards not named Nussbaumer or Verboon. Tells you everything you need to know about the age group. Solid average but not more. If anything, it was more frontloaded than deep.

 

[Speyer]

Jobin never really got any ice time. Defense of the 2000 group was very good. Berni was a beast, Gross and Moser were solid, Aebischer was skilled and dynamic. The rest was trash though. Pezzullo was way better. Even Guggenheim and Villa were. So no, no depth.
Upfront, depth was even worse. There were Nussbaumer and Verboon and that was it. The next best players were always underagers. Jobin and Salzgeber were never gonna be stars but they were better than all 2000 born forwards not named Nussbaumer or Verboon. Tells you everything you need to know about the age group. Solid average but not more. If anything, it was more frontloaded than deep.

No. Sopa and Schmid were significantly better than Salzgeber and Jobin. Sopa was just terrible in his lone WJC for some reason. But he was better at the U18's and much better in their respective leagues. Jobin didn't even cut it in the Q while Sopa was a good player in the better OHL. I am not even a big fan of Sopa neither now or then; the two 01's were just worse than him. Sandro Schmid on the other hand was doing quite good in Sweden and was later already established in the NL during his last WJC. As a GM I would also have taken Gerber over Salzgeber and Jobin any day of the week, even though he wasn't nearly as good at the U20 level as he was in the lower age groups. Pezzullo was definitely ahead of Barandun and Henauer back then, I give you that much. With Villa and Guggenheim its debatable. Especially the latter looked brutal for the U20 team at times. In the end all the 01 dmen you mentioned were physically mature early bloomers without much upside though. None of them developed much since their U20 days, unlike Henauer for example.

But I don't think its much use to discuss this any further. We have just differing oppinons on those players and on the application of the term "depth".

 

[Hinterland]

No. Sopa and Schmid were significantly better than Salzgeber and Jobin. Sopa was just terrible in his lone WJC for some reason. But he was better at the U18's and much better in their respective leagues. Jobin didn't even cut it in the Q while Sopa was a good player in the better OHL. I am not even a big fan of Sopa neither now or then; the two 01's were just worse than him. Sandro Schmid on the other hand was doing quite good in Sweden and was later already established in the NL during his last WJC. As a GM I would also have taken Gerber over Salzgeber and Jobin any day of the week, even though he wasn't nearly as good at the U20 level as he was in the lower age groups. Pezzullo was definitely ahead of Barandun and Henauer back then, I give you that much. With Villa and Guggenheim its debatable. Especially the latter looked brutal for the U20 team at times. In the end all the 01 dmen you mentioned were physically mature early bloomers without much upside though. None of them developed much since their U20 days, unlike Henauer for example.

But I don't think its much use to discuss this any further. We have just differing oppinons on those players and on the application of the term "depth".

I just don't think the 2000 group was deep. On defense they had a very good top4 which isn't the case now where it's just a top duo but behind that there was just Henauer who just wasn't very good as a junior. The 06 group has 6-10 defenders of his quality. Doesn't mean they're all gonna develop the way he did but they're as good as he was six years ago.

Upfront it's even worse. I really like Matthew Verboon, always did but he was the team's 2nd best forward and it wasn't close. There wasn't much to be seen behind him. Antenen, Reber and Forget are clearly better than he was back then. Plus there are probably 6-8 06 forwards on a similar level.

So no, I don't think the 2000 group was deep. Front loaded yeah with lots of future NHLers and NLers but not deep. I'd say most groups since then have been at least as deep. Maybe not as good (though that remains to be seen) but of similar if not better depth.

 

[Hinterland]

Who’s 2025 eligible?

Everybody born mid september or later so Reber will be one of the youngest players in the 2024 draft. Neuenschwander, Giger, Mottard and Körbler are all not draft eligible until 2025. Some of the more interesting players of the Swiss 06 age group.

 

[Kuracmugger]

Everybody born mid september or later so Reber will be one of the youngest players in the 2024 draft. Neuenschwander, Giger, Mottard and Körbler are all not draft eligible until 2025. Some of the more interesting players of the Swiss 06 age group.

Thanks,how do you rate their draft chances?

 

[Kuracmugger]

Final roster:

 

[Speyer]

Surprised to see Lachat selected over Neuenschwander. Its merited based on the 3 preparation games but that is a small sample size. Its pretty harsh to ignore Neuenschwanders track record over the last two years. We will see if the gamble pays of, if Lachat actually gets any starts that is.

 

[Hinterland]

Surprised to see Lachat selected over Neuenschwander. Its merited based on the 3 preparation games but that is a small sample size. Its pretty harsh to ignore Neuenschwanders track record over the last two years. We will see if the gamble pays of, if Lachat actually gets any starts that is.

I fully understand that the 06 group has at least six very good goalies but you can't leave out your most talented goalie based on one friggen exhibition game. Neuenschwander better be sick or injured. Otherwise this is completely bonkers.

Leaving out Guignard is an interesting call as well. Not a righty but comfortable playing his off side. I hope they didn't leave him off the squad to play a lefty forward (Geisser) on his offside on defense like they did in some of the Czechia exhibitions. That would be downright insane. Having said that, with the selected team they can just move over Ustinkov and be fine with Ustinkov, Meier and Kurt holding down RD spots. Short tournament so I'm all for frontloading and leaning heavily on a Muggli/Ustinkov pairing for as long as the games are tight.

 

[Hinterland]

Thanks,how do you rate their draft chances?

Way too early to tell. Neuenschwander should be a lock to get drafted if he doesn't mess up completely. If he continues to develop the way he did over the last years he could even be a candidate for the top goalie of his draft class or the 1st round.

For the skaters, I like their chances. They're all among the more interesting prospects on the roster. As for the rest, we'll have to see. Like I said. Way too early.

 

[Kuracmugger]

Surprised to see Lachat selected over Neuenschwander. Its merited based on the 3 preparation games but that is a small sample size. Its pretty harsh to ignore Neuenschwanders track record over the last two years. We will see if the gamble pays of, if Lachat actually gets any starts that is.

Why do we take only 2 goalies anyway?

 

[Kuracmugger]

Final roster:View attachment 731640

Are there any 07‘s who would have been deserving of a spot in your opinion?

 

[Speyer]

A

Are there any 07‘s who would have been deserving of a spot in your opinion?

I haven't seen the 07's that much but based on my viewings, I'd have to say no. Maybe one of Schenk, Aeschlimann, Wagner or Mundy could grab a spot at the U18's next year, but only if they develop really well.

 

[TigersFan]

What happened to william Mcnutt i thought he was the best u17 goaltender this time around last year. I haven’t really followed the 06 players since then so i don’t know. But i thought he‘ll be the starter.

McNutt moved from Zug to Langnau last year and at the start of the season he was a bit inconsistent. The U17 team from Langnau progressed to the playoff final and McNutt was really solid in the playoffs.