Value of: Ivan Demidov vs 2025 1oa

[Ford Prefect]

You are right, franchise d men are extremely rare to find I love Schaefer, he will be the top D guy for whichever team selects him at #1. What I don't agree with is how much people tend to overrate the amount of REAL offensive superstars. IMO they are rare to find than all-around number #1 defenseman. There are very few special players in this world who can change the course of games, carry teams on their backs, be dynamic nights and nights out, and reach 90 to 100 points a year in their prime. We can look at the 15 last drafts since 2010

2010 draft: No one
2011 draft: Kucherov
2012 draft: No one
2013 draft: Mackinnon
2014 draft: Draisaitl & Pastrnak
2015 draft: McDavid & Kaprizov
2016 draft: Matthews
2017 draft: Makar
2018 draft: Q. Hughes
2019 draft: J. Hughes
2020 draft: No one
2021 draft: No one
2022 draft: Maybe Hutson
2023 draft: No one so far
2024 draft: Celebrini & Demidov
2025 draft: Don't see anyone potentially reaching that level
2026 draft: Very likely McKenna

That's about 13 to 14 guys out of 3600 draftees. It illustrates how rare they are to find and if you're lucky like 2014 and 2015, you can find 2 at maximum

So... Eichel, Marner, Connor, Point, Hagel, Keller, RNH, Huberdeau, JT Miller, Gaudreau, Forsberg, Barkov, Nylander, Rantanen, M. Tkachuk, Pettersson, Robertson, and Stutzle all tell you to f*ck right off. And that doesn't even include players like Aho, Bratt, Suzuki or Thomas who are only a couple of points away from being 90-point players.

And I don't know how you include 4 players who don't have 90 points in their careers as that level player. Like it's not that you only lissted 6 out of 24 players who've actually done it, or the dozens who may (and selectively included 4 for some reason), it's that you're sooooo lazy. You could have taken 30 seconds and reviewed the NHL scoring leaders to see that. But hey, let's not let the facts get in the way of your argument.

 

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[Kiirin]

So... Eichel, Marner, Connor, Point, Hagel, Keller, RNH, Huberdeau, JT Miller, Gaudreau, Forsberg, Barkov, Nylander, Rantanen, M. Tkachuk, Pettersson, Robertson, and Stutzle all tell you to f*ck right off. And that doesn't even include players like Aho, Bratt, Suzuki or Thomas who are only a couple of points away from being 90-point players.

And I don't know how you include 4 players who don't have 90 points in their careers as that level player. Like it's not that you only lissted 6 out of 24 players who've actually done it, or the dozens who may (and selectively included 4 for some reason), it's that you're sooooo lazy. You could have taken 30 seconds and reviewed the NHL scoring leaders to see that. But hey, let's not let the facts get in the way of your argument.

You don't know the difference between an elite player and a superstar if you think Huberdeau, JT Miller, Gaudreau, Forsberg, Rantanen, RNH, Petterson, Suzuki, Stutzle, Robertson, Pattersson, Aho, Bratt and Thomas are at the same level to McDavid, Mackinnon, Matthews, Draisaitl, and Kucherov. Remove Kucherov from Point and see how he's doing, remove Mackinnon from Rantanen and he's not the same player. Being a superstar isn't simply about scoring points, anyone playing top-line minutes could get 70 to 85 points on any given year. It's about controlling the game and having the ability to carry one's team by themselves irrespective of their teammates. You see Pastrnak getting 106 points despite having 3rd liners as linemates, that's a superstar. That's what the kind of impact I project Demidov, Celebrini, McKenna, and Hutson to be from watching on the ice

 

[EquivalentStay]

I suggest you rewatch the Hawks vs Habs game because the impact of both players on their teams is night and day. Bedard outside of his nice PP assist to Bertuzzi was invisible the whole game and the Hawks had to be carried by players like Nazar and Foligno. It's the complete opposite for Demidov. He was the play driver carrying the Habs's offense, nearly gave Newhook a hat trick, and was by far the team's best player by being constantly dangerous and dynamic. He did all that in his first NHL game while shouldering an immense amount of pressure in a market like Montreal, playing through limited minutes and being jet-lagged

Bro it's one game, calm down

 

[TheBeard]

You are right, franchise d men are extremely rare to find I love Schaefer, he will be the top D guy for whichever team selects him at #1. What I don't agree with is how much people tend to overrate the amount of REAL offensive superstars. IMO they are rare to find than all-around number #1 defenseman. There are very few special players in this world who can change the course of games, carry teams on their backs, be dynamic nights and nights out, and reach 90 to 100 points a year in their prime. We can look at the 15 last drafts since 2010

2010 draft: No one
2011 draft: Kucherov
2012 draft: No one
2013 draft: Mackinnon
2014 draft: Draisaitl & Pastrnak
2015 draft: McDavid & Kaprizov
2016 draft: Matthews
2017 draft: Makar
2018 draft: Q. Hughes
2019 draft: J. Hughes
2020 draft: No one
2021 draft: No one
2022 draft: Maybe Hutson
2023 draft: No one so far
2024 draft: Celebrini & Demidov
2025 draft: Don't see anyone potentially reaching that level
2026 draft: Very likely McKenna

That's about 13 to 14 guys out of 3600 draftees. It illustrates how rare they are to find and if you're lucky like 2014 and 2015, you can find 2 at maximum

I mean you’re creating unrealistic expectations for demidov and changing my argument. Sure a franchise altering offensive superstar is rare but that’s not what I meant. What you suggested and what you posted are two different things. Wyatt Johnson, for example, I would have on your list. Same with Rasmus Dahlin.

 

[kp61c]

demidov was drafted out of the mhl and didn't play in international tournaments. many teams were leary of that, didn't know what to expect and prefered to draft local talent. it is understandable.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Celebrini is good but Demidov should've been 1st overall last year and would easily be this year. The number of teams scared of drafting Russians just blows my mind. Still can't believe both Michkov and Demidov fell like they did.

ummmmm...... sorry but Demidov would still be selected behind Celebrini. Demidov isn't really close at the moment

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Demidov is significantly better than any player in the 2025 draft

little early to saying something like this. I know fandom takes it's toll here but we will see. in the end a Winger has about the lowest value out of all positions.

Demidov looks pretty impressive but pretty bold to just place him above everyone else already.

 

[landy]

1 goal > 0 goals. Easy answer

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I guess I'm a homer if I don't see Bedard as that generational talent comparable to McDavid or the future face of the league like the canadian media portrayed him to be.

No you are claiming you don't even see him as someone with offensive star potential despite having nearly 130 NHL points before he's even 20. Yet a guy with 1 NHL game is already a guaranteed superstar. You listed 14 players, I added 8. That is not a list of generational talents, only Makar and McDavid are clear cut generational talents from that list, maybe MacKinnon and Kucherov.

 

[General Fanager]

I had the Flams as a bottom 5 team going into this season. the Fact that Wolf may take the Flames into the playoffs is HUGE.
that said, Celebrini is the best rookie and it should be a walk in the park, with.

The exact thing can be said about The Habs and Hutson has a huge part in that.

ummmmm...... sorry but Demidov would still be selected behind Celebrini. Demidov isn't really close at the moment

little early to saying something like this. I know fandom takes it's toll here but we will see. in the end a Winger has about the lowest value out of all positions.

Demidov looks pretty impressive but pretty bold to just place him above everyone else already.

Seems to show your bias here. A Habs fan praises Demidov and you said its too early to say that but you say with such confidence that Demidov isn't close at the moment.

 

[mydnyte]

The exact thing can be said about The Habs and Hutson has a huge part in that.




Seems to show your bias here. A Habs fan praises Demidov and you said its too early to say that but you say with such confidence that Demidov isn't close at the moment.

No, its not even in the same realm of reality. a starting Goalie can make or break a team. if Hutson wasnt playing, I dont imagine there is a big difference in the standings, but the Flames would be a bottom 5 lottery team.

 

[General Fanager]

No, its not even in the same realm of reality. a starting Goalie can make or break a team. if Hutson wasnt playing, I dont imagine there is a big difference in the standings, but the Flames would be a bottom 5 lottery team.

what?!?

The Habs were bottom 5 last year and have largely the same lineup this year except for Hutson. Go back and check the early season predictions. Most thought The Habs would be better but nowhere near a playoff team.

 

[mydnyte]

what?!?

The Habs were bottom 5 last year and have largely the same lineup this year except for Hutson. Go back and check the early season predictions. Most thought The Habs would be better but nowhere near a playoff team.

playing far better than i expected, but, last season they really underperformed. i expected close to and just missing the playoffs for this season ...and i'm a point either way to being correct or wrong.

 

[Ezpz]

playing far better than i expected, but, last season they really underperformed. i expected close to and just missing the playoffs for this season ...and i'm a point either way to being correct or wrong.

Habs did not underperform last year. That's just an insane take. They were -53. They weren't even close to the teams above them in goal differential. If anything the number of times they tied the game and lost in OT inflated their point totals.

 

[MoneyManny]

ummmmm...... sorry but Demidov would still be selected behind Celebrini. Demidov isn't really close at the moment

I agree. Let's not get ahead of ourselves, one has played 1 game the other is runner up for the Calder. That kind of take is embarassing. We can have that discussion after next season is over.

 

[General Fanager]

playing far better than i expected, but, last season they really underperformed. i expected close to and just missing the playoffs for this season ...and i'm a point either way to being correct or wrong.

Who knows, either way no one saw thing coming.

 

[Rob Sense]

ummmmm...... sorry but Demidov would still be selected behind Celebrini. Demidov isn't really close at the moment

Not close because he dominated the KHL as a 19 year old? What is your comparison metric. Pretty sure Demidov is the favorite for the Calder next year and Celebrini wasn't able to beat 2nd rounder Hutson. Be careful of bold statements.

 

[Garbageyuk]

I would have taken Leonard

Me too.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

The exact thing can be said about The Habs and Hutson has a huge part in that.




Seems to show your bias here. A Habs fan praises Demidov and you said its too early to say that but you say with such confidence that Demidov isn't close at the moment.

how am I being biased? I actually like Demidov alot, search though my history, find one thing bad I said about him.

but he right now would place behind Celebrini. for what Celebrini has done in the NHL compared to Demidov who has 1 game under his belt.... its not really close.

if anything people who think he is better than Celebrini already are being biased

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Not close because he dominated the KHL as a 19 year old? What is your comparison metric. Pretty sure Demidov is the favorite for the Calder next year and Celebrini wasn't able to beat 2nd rounder Hutson. Be careful of bold statements.

well we can talk again when Demidov has more than 1 gameplayed. right now he's not really close to the young C who already broke 60 points as a rookie

what does Hutson have anything to do with this? no need to get upset there champ

 

[MoneyManny]

Not close because he dominated the KHL as a 19 year old? What is your comparison metric. Pretty sure Demidov is the favorite for the Calder next year and Celebrini wasn't able to beat 2nd rounder Hutson. Be careful of bold statements.

You gotta compare oranges to oranges. Dominating the KHL, as impressive as it is, still leaves a lot more question marks unanswered than Celebrini having a stellar season in the NHL that would get him the Calder most years.

I'm very confident Ivan will have a great rookie season in the NHL next year and the discussion will be valid then.

 

[malcb33]

right now he's (Demidov) not really close to the young C who already broke 60 points as a rookie

You gotta compare oranges to oranges.

Exactly you do need to compare oranges to oranges, which is a fair point. But conversely, you can't say definitively that Demidov isn't close to Celebrini because you don't have the data to compare them yet.

 

[Rob Sense]

You gotta compare oranges to oranges. Dominating the KHL, as impressive as it is, still leaves a lot more question marks unanswered than Celebrini having a stellar season in the NHL that would get him the Calder most years.

I'm very confident Ivan will have a great rookie season in the NHL next year and the discussion will be valid then.

right so surpassing Kaprisov, Michkov, Kucherov and all the other OVs is a bad orange. This post of yours will not stand the test of time.

 

[Rob Sense]

well we can talk again when Demidov has more than 1 gameplayed. right now he's not really close to the young C who already broke 60 points as a rookie

what does Hutson have anything to do with this? no need to get upset there champ

not upset...quite pleased.