Salary Cap: It Must Be Done.

[King'sPawn]

Nm, not worth arguing

 

[Rorschach]

How about we start with just competently developing our top prospects and go from there?

You ask the impossible, given our front office.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

This is all completely disingenuous considered you are defending these exploits, meaning you too don't doubt he could have played earlier than the moment his cap hit no longer became an issue.

Neither of us have any clue when Stone could've come back from his injury. Full stop. You made a direct accusation that he was deliberately held back from returning to game the LTIR system. You've provided zero actual evidence for this claim.

My point is that even if we do agree that Stone was deliberately held back, it's still a moot complaint, because every team has gamed the cap in one way or another, including our own.

 

[King'sPawn]

Neither of us have any clue when Stone could've come back from his injury. Full stop. You made a direct accusation that he was deliberately held back from returning to game the LTIR system. You've provided zero actual evidence for this claim.

I said it was arguable. Considering he was cleared to go as soon as the cap hit doesn't matter, it's a fair argument. But whatever, I'm done arguing. Other dumb shit will get looped in by someone else I'm sure.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

I said it was arguable. Considering he was cleared to go as soon as the cap hit doesn't matter, it's a fair argument. But whatever, I'm done arguing. Other dumb shit will get looped in by someone else I'm sure.

Obviously the optics appear suspicious. I don't contend that. But if even one doctor says, "yeah, not playing until playoffs will help Stone's recovery" then VGK has done nothing wrong. And if every team is engaging in some kind of marginally shady cap circumvention, then does it really matter?

I think the NHL's hard cap system is poorly implemented overall. I would much rather see them reward teams for drafting and developing their own stars like the NBA and NFL does. Instead we have just have one blunt edge cap across the board that has only stifled player movement and created a cap Cayman Islands in Phoenix. It's a very poor system.

 

[johnjm22]

I don't think it's a totally black and white issue.

These guys have been playing hockey their whole lives. The NHL schedule is an absolute GRIND. I bet a lot of the older players have some sort of nagging / chronic issues like joints etc. that they play through and needs lots of management. It's not a stretch to think a team doctor could declare a guy needs to take months or even most of a season off at any given time.

Watching Doughty this year, I can see that his mobility has declined. He's probably played more hockey than any person on the planet since 2008. I'm sure he's got some kind of nagging issue somewhere in his body.

 

[BigKing]

Do you think Mark Stone faked having back surgery?

You are enjoying the Vegas win so you are sensitive to any perceived criticism.

I merely stated that the cap-circumventing contracts of the last CBA are not the same as this current loophole. You are trying to throw them in the same bucket: I'm saying that the current one is way worse than the other one.

IMO, they aren't even comparable. Every team in the league gave out those contracts: they just became the standard contract structure for good players. This current loophole is only an exploit that benefits the upper-tier teams because what's the point of being $10MM over the cap after the deadline when you are in last place? That same last place team would love to sign their best player coming off an ELC to a front-loaded, "cap-circumventing" contract though and sign them they did.

Chicago, TB and Vegas were all legit over the cap. The Kings and everyone else were under the cap: they were just paying more in actual dollars than the cap hit.

I'm also not crying "Cheater!" since they are just taking advantage of the loophole. This particular loophole, in my opinion, is worse than the front-loaded contracts. You know what you are getting with the latter at the start of the season while the current one allows the addition of good players to already good teams that would not be doable if a big contract wasn't rehabbing on the sidelines just to step in for the playoffs and put up 24 points in 22 games.

To say as much isn't taking away from Vegas: they still finished in 1st without Stone for half the season. Could they have still won without the loophole? Sure. Do I still think they can f*** right off? Absolutely. Did I feel the same way about this loophole v. the front loading contracts before Vegas won while exploiting it? Sure did. Thought it was bullshit when Chicago did it to add Vermette. It's the league's fault though for not having the foresight when the CBA was ratified.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

You are enjoying the Vegas win so you are sensitive to any perceived criticism.

Right, and you’re completely unbiased here.

In what world do front loaded cap circumventing contracts NOT specifically allow for the addition of more good players? That’s the entire point of tacking on low dollar years at the end of the contract: to bring the AAV down and allow for more room to add more players.

Do you think the Kings are able to fit Jeff Carter on the team with Mike Richards at normal market value?

Your inability to admit the shenanigans of your own team while gleefully calling out the shenanigans of a rival team is ridiculous.

Every team has blood on their hands when it comes to gaming the cap. You’re the one saying the Kings cap circumvention is somehow not as bad as VGK’s.

And I’m the one with a bias?

Also, you can f*** off with the Vegas bias stuff in general. You constantly bring this up. You have no idea how much shit I get from friends and family for sticking with the Kings.

 

[LAKings88]

Just make playoff rosters cap compliant too.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Just make playoff rosters cap compliant too.

I think everyone should be in favor of this.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I don't particularly care about the loophole because it is what it is, but it's kind of precious naivete to pretend Patrick Kane, Nikita Kucherov, and Mark Stone all perfectly missed the exact right amount of games to make it to the playoffs.

It's gaming the system and everyone can do it but let's not pretend here.

Just make playoff rosters cap compliant too.

Gameday roster, anyway.

That way you can fill your LTIR slot during the season but once, say, Stone comes back, you have to bench that salary so your game roster is compliant. I don't care how much you exceed the cap by if 100m isn't actually playing.

 

[King'sPawn]

Just make playoff rosters cap compliant too.

This is legit all I'm expecting for game day rosters.

 

[BigKing]

Right, and you’re completely unbiased here.

In what world do front loaded cap circumventing contracts NOT specifically allow for the addition of more good players? That’s the entire point of tacking on low dollar years at the end of the contract: to bring the AAV down and allow for more room to add more players.

Do you think the Kings are able to fit Jeff Carter on the team with Mike Richards at normal market value?

Your inability to admit the shenanigans of your own team while gleefully calling out the shenanigans of a rival team is ridiculous.

Every team has blood on their hands when it comes to gaming the cap. You’re the one saying the Kings cap circumvention is somehow not as bad as VGK’s.

And I’m the one with a bias?

Also, you can f*** off with the Vegas bias stuff in general. You constantly bring this up. You have no idea how much shit I get from friends and family for sticking with the Kings.

I credit anyone for sticking with the Kings no matter where they live but kudos to you for doing so in your market; however, they are your #2 team so it is worth bringing up when you get this defensive. Your immediate response was "Do you think he faked back surgery?" as if Vegas is the first team to do this and I am trying to dismiss their Cup win or something. There is a reason why KP just bowed out of this one: it's because you are way fired up over it.

I never said they weren't cap circumventing contracts. The entire point is that those contracts were used by every single team in the league when signing their best players. It was a loophole available to every team to build a long-term roster v. loading up right when the playoffs start.

The current loophole is only exploitable by the 1%'ers of the NHL because, again, there is no benefit for the other 99% to be over the cap after the trade deadline. Due to that, I feel this loophole is worse than the one in the prior CBA and it has nothing to do with the fact my favorite team benefited from it. I hate Chicago and they benefitted from it. Pittsburgh as well.

I wish the Kings were in a position to exploit the current loophole. I'd still say it is bullshit and worse than the last loophole while on my way to the parade! Hell, this thread was started to say that the only way the Kings can contend with their current cap situation is for Doughty to go on LTIR. Shit...if it means the Kings have a real contender when the playoffs start then let's ride!!

 

[LAKings88]

I don't particularly care about the loophole because it is what it is, but it's kind of precious naivete to pretend Patrick Kane, Nikita Kucherov, and Mark Stone all perfectly missed the exact right amount of games to make it to the playoffs.

It's gaming the system and everyone can do it but let's not pretend here.



Gameday roster, anyway.

That way you can fill your LTIR slot during the season but once, say, Stone comes back, you have to bench that salary so your game roster is compliant. I don't care how much you exceed the cap by if 100m isn't actually playing.

Yes, exactly what I mean. Thanks RJ.

Gms would have to think twice before adding at the deadline.

 

[Surf Nutz]

The cap problem could have been avoided if Blake had the guts to trade Kopitar years ago. As @KINGS17 suggested every day practically at that point.

At the time we acquired Danault and drafted a bunch of centers in the top echelon of the draft, there was no rhyme or reason to the roster construction. There were two critical points in this Bluc era. One was the decision not to move Kopitar AND drafting centers in the top echelon of the draft, and adding Danault. The other was drafting centers despite it not being a massive hole and passing on the obvious offensive firepower like Stutzle and Caulfield over the years.

Lol, everyday is groundhog day here.
Trading the sure thing of Kopi for unknowns is not the way to go.
You probably get a combination of lesser players back and the team that gets the top player usually wins the trade.
Blake may have also been given parameters to not sell all the parts of the vehicle, because a jalopy could effect attendance and the long term appeal.
Danault was a great pickup at no trade cost.
Drafted centers can do well at wing, Vilardi.
Drafter wingers struggle at center, Kempe.
Drafting centers is smart.
How would the Kings playoff lack of size woes look now with a Stutzle or Caufield?
Little guys get injured and are generally less effective in the playoff; Lizotte.
Blakes biggest mistake was acquiring too many redundant small players.

 

[Surf Nutz]

Nm, not worth arguing

Insufferable and you are right on both replys
Its meltdown season

 

[Surf Nutz]

Right, and you’re completely unbiased here.

In what world do front loaded cap circumventing contracts NOT specifically allow for the addition of more good players? That’s the entire point of tacking on low dollar years at the end of the contract: to bring the AAV down and allow for more room to add more players.

Do you think the Kings are able to fit Jeff Carter on the team with Mike Richards at normal market value?

Your inability to admit the shenanigans of your own team while gleefully calling out the shenanigans of a rival team is ridiculous.

Every team has blood on their hands when it comes to gaming the cap. You’re the one saying the Kings cap circumvention is somehow not as bad as VGK’s.

And I’m the one with a bias?

Also, you can f*** off with the Vegas bias stuff in general. You constantly bring this up. You have no idea how much shit I get from friends and family for sticking with the Kings.

I watch hockey to see hockey not an NHL rules season long chess match to position for the playoffs or even having the possibility of that.
I agree with those indicating the LTIR rules need to be tightened up just as many things have been modified over the history of the NHL.
Some good starting point suggestions here
I see your round and round pattern here and recently and I am not responding to you at this time either.
I want to be fair and let you know ahead of time.

 

[theMajor]

Just make playoff rosters cap compliant too.

seems like an easy fix but who knows how the board of governors feel about it

 

[johnjm22]

MOVES:
Doughty to LTIR (Returns March 1st)
Hathaway 2x 1.5M
Soucy 4x 4M
Stolarz 2x 1.25M

ROSTER
Byfield-Kopitar-Kempe
Moore-Dubois-Arvidsson
Fiala-Danault-Kaliyev
Grundstrom-Lizotte-Hathaway
Fagemo, JAD

Anderson-Roy
Gavrikov-Clarke
Soucy-Spence
Bjornfot

Copley
Stolarz

RETAINED / TERMINATED
Provorov ($2.025M)
Richards ($700K)

DETAILS
Roster Size: 23
Salary Cap: $83,500,000
Cap Hit: $79,096,667
Cap Space: $4,403,333

*Goalie might be a weak spot, but can be addressed at the deadline with prorated cap space.

SCOUTING REPORT
The strapping winger's size and willingness to compete lead to a lot of successful puck battles. Knows how to get under the skin of an opponent, too. Is not the fastest player around, nor is he a natural goal scorer, but that might be a function of not shooting the puck enough. Will stand up for his teammates when needed.

Long Range Potential: Big, rugged winger.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Just make playoff rosters cap compliant too.

I don't think the PA would go for it.

 

[kings11]

Doughty must go to LTIR and come back near the end of the season.

Admittedly, I don't know exactly how the numbers are calculated, but I believe this would give LA the cap flexibility to add a goalie and center without weakening other parts of the roster.

There is no other way to make this team into a contender.

Sorry to interrupt your Black Panther Party JJM but it seems that AsssssssssKarov is in play… could the Kings jump into the fray????

 

[johnjm22]

Sorry to interrupt your Black Panther Party JJM but it seems that AsssssssssKarov is in play… could the Kings jump into the fray????

If they're shopping him, it makes me think there's something wrong with him.

 

[Bandit]

seems like an easy fix but who knows how the board of governors feel about it

More likely the players association would be against it. Imagine Barbashev sits the entire playoffs. A. he doesn't play B. Do they give him that cushy new contract if he doesn't? Probably not.

 

[kovacro]

Hathaway or Acciari would be great pieces on the 4th line. Both are excellent in their roles.

 

[KINGS17]

Do you think Mark Stone faked having back surgery?

Fake scars on Amazon are only $7.