It is Time to Stop Expectations of Instant Gratification

theguardianII

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Jan 30, 2020
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The owned media is pushing all these quick fix ideas to solve a serious problem instantly and by doing so are giving the fan base the unreasonable reputation of wanting instant gratification. A juvenile desire with wild demands without thought.

The media most fans are exposed to are all employees' in one fashion or another of Rogers, the Canucks or dependent on them for revenue so they follow instructions.

By tagging the fanbase as too demanding and unreasonable they have other media chuckling at the childishness of this market. They now act like they represent the fanbase.

All the chat is how to fix this group now.
Players to trade to get better today.

No real thoughts of tomorrow or 2 years in advance.

It is time fans took their reputations back.
Sure we want a winner but we also want a Stanley Cup

As I have posted before, "Rome wasn't built in a day" and "A building is only as good as it's foundation"

I was very reassured when Rutherford stated his goal was to build long term contender not just a playoff team but really alarmed when Allvin said "fans deserve a Playoff" indicating a change of direction to merely a playoff appearance.

It might be a challenge to a lot of fans to know or look up what is in the public domain for information but media talk should not be about JUST fixing the team for today but longer term and HOW to make that work, with the cap and with player ages.

In this instant gratification media hype is ignoring on how long have been here and old some of these players are getting.

Lots of talk about them being human with human frailties but also denial of a player's desires, what drives a player. They are not allowed to lose hope and if they do they have to ignore their own deep down desires and what drove them to be who they are.

The more their contract pays the less their own thoughts matter. They are bought and served up now they HAVE to ignore their own personal feelings and thoughts, right?

Keeping the same players only keeps the same problems.
Solving the enormity of the problems instantly isn't likely they are so big and inclusive.

The leadership with a rift, the lack of depth dmen, the lack of replacement for Miller, Pettersson and Hughes, the future cap issues including possible new contracts and the age of the players. Of course there is also what a player might want.

When Horvat was traded to me it was a reward for 8 years of suffering with a losing team, he earned it even if he went to another losing team he was out from under the spotlight. I think that like coaches there is a shelf life for the intensity of the market for players especially the star performers on losing teams.

The media talk IMO should start focusing more on what there is next year and the year after. There is enough information available to reasonably guess. Things like Boeser will be gone, 8 years here and he already demanded a trade twice so reasonable to guess he would want out that and how close he is to his family. Hughes the same, he lives with his family and has said it would be good to play with his brothers, Garland in 3 years when he is 30, that might depend on the money. Demko, his injuries don't spell long term, Miller in 2 years is 33/34 yrs old, Pettersson who knows for sure. The last two because they are leadership in the room and there is a split.

Every guess I made now is based on what is known now but it is all looking at the future.

As it goes now it looks like another step back next year with bandaids attained to fool fans into thinking of playoffs or improvement. For next year the cap doesn't matter the bodies do because there isn't enough cap space to do more as it stands now.

After reading a lot of posters I do think there are more thinking about the next year, some further ahead. It isn't what they might get, it is what they have and how likely it is what they do not who they might get for instant gratification.

Now we need Rutherford to make me look foolish or maybe I don't need him for that :)
 
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I’ve been watching games when I can (being on the right coast sucks for this) and I’m just going to say this for now:

This really shitty stretch of games are going to determine what kind of character (what they’re made of) this team has. Don’t worry about the W’s and L’s, look at how they play on a night by night basis.

Because of the scheduling They're going lay a turd or two. Just watch to see how they react to it.
 
What media specifically are you referring to. Specifically.
 
TLDR but based on your poll options you’re missing what I’d pick. Go all in for the medium term

Focus on winning these next 2.5 years while you have Hughes locked in. I wouldn’t waste assets on trading for rentals. Only for players with term, RFA status or for a rental who agrees to a contract extension during the trade.

If you try to re-tool/rebuild you’ll lose Hughes to NJ I’m guessing so you might as well try to win while you have him and maybe if you win enough he’ll stay.

Personally I’d be very open to trading Lekkerimaki and the 1st round pick(protected of course), if it lands you an impact player for the next 2.5 years.

I question Lekk’s fit with Tocchet and this system anyway. Willander I’d keep since it seems likely he finishes the season in Vancouver and could be an impact rookie next year
 
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Play for the Cup for me. If your close go for it if your just praying for everything to go right tear it down because playoffs aren't just the goal a real chance of winning it is.
 
So where are you trading Quinn Hughes to?
Tear it down also means sell all non core parts and don't add players at the cost of futures. This team as is though not far isn't close either. I'd keep Hughes, Hronek and one of Miller/EP. I'd listen on every one else on NHL roster if someone was willing to make an offer.
 
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Don't go all in on rentals, just sign value UFA's and only trade quality assets for players that will be around for multiple seasons.

Need to keep trying to improve and compete, otherwise good players won't want to stick around.
 
None of the options posted are good. Stay the course. If a good deal comes along that works cap wise take it. Do not trade futures, we are a borderline team (due to injuries etc beyond control) but we have a great core.

Wait to see how we do once we are healthy. If we start to climb the ladder, let our 1st go at or near the TDL if we can get a piece that helps us now and stay under the cap.

We should have Lekk, Willander and maybe one or two of EP2, KK, Raty, Sassons, Mini (autocorrect sorry) etc giving us help and some cap relief. Heck may kravtsov comes back and lights it up.
 
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There is some real fear in some of the posters, not all.

It is somewhat understandable because the "owned media" is promoting Doom and Gloom with a trade of ANY core player totalling missing a reason why there could be added pain. The total lack of highly skilled prospects in the system and the number of them or on the team.
They avoid the fact that Hughes is the only player of substance under 26 yrs old which would expose the need of a re-tooling or whatever.

I won't try to "pick" players in any trade but maybe a type, class or physical endowments.

Pettersson, Miller, Hughes and now buried and forgotten Boeser would all create a big interest from the rest of the league in any auctions.
I won't say which players now but wait to see the offers and if they fit a new group.
The bottom 7 or 8 forwards are pretty solid so any new young guys would not be put on the heater immediately and 4 of the dmen could help new dmen.

Time is what is returned, time taken to pick and evaluate young players for NHL value.

Why there would be fear of any player moving or being trade is just fanaticism and what the team would want. GM's not making a chance on any big mistakes for their jobs.

The team is Vancouver and only the sum of it's parts. Parts, the players.

Do the fans forget the 8 years of spinning the wheels? Holding on to players because fans were afraid losing. But the losses just kept piling up with those same players.

There is a post of "trade Hughes to who?" Beyond the obvious, who wouldn't want him? How about the team that offers three 1rsts and three AAA prospects, or five 1rst's? What desperate team would make that silly offer isn't relevant, the answer is basically whoever offers the most that is best for the TEAM and it's future.

The basic silence of Boeser's pending FA status. His age and the 8 years losing here combined with two trade demands he has made. Recanted or not they were made and accepted but the I's couldn't be dotted or the T's crossed. To who doesn't matter it is the return.

The freedom of building for the future takes the pressure off being perfect in any trade.
Replacing a player's performance for today isn't necessarily the best for 2 years from now and is just putting off the same decision needed to be made to improve the club later.

The owned media is rally putting it out there the team is doomed if they trade for the future. They talk and act childish in the story line of this group is going to win a cup, instead they put just making the playoffs the end all be all of a successful season. 16 teams make the playoffs, half the league for the Canucks the competition for a spot is reduced by 4 teams having a rebuild or tanking. That it is even a doubt should raise alarms of the actual prowess of this group. Beating bad teams or having teams getting bad doesn't mean improvement, it just means they might not be changing. It reminds of part of a racing movie where the pit boss tells the driver to slow down but the driver answers "I'm not going faster, they are slowing down".

After 8 years being in the bottom third of the league and after the surprise of last season the team has graduated to the middle third, the mushy middle and some posters see that 8 years to move up is good but he next 8 will not be with those on the team now.

"We aren't getting better, they are getting worse"
 
The freedom of building for the future takes the pressure off being perfect in any trade.
Replacing a player's performance for today isn't necessarily the best for 2 years from now and is just putting off the same decision needed to be made to improve the club later.
Does feel that there are posters and many on this board (other clubs too) prefer to rebuild vs have the expectations or goals to meet.

There were threads asking to rate GMs, but I would not include rebuilding GMs with the rest that are trying to make the PO and or win the Cup. Different expectations. Rebuilding not under the gun to find a top 6, top 4 or starting goalie. Or figuring out the right mix of players.
 
The transition from rebuilding to contending is the hardest part. When you don't have the core pieces I believe in a tear down rebuild where you hope to strike gold with your high picks. But once you have the pieces in place you got to move quickly or else I think the losing impacts a player.

I've said this many times before. You rarely see a star player miss the playoffs for 5+ years to begin his career and then go on to help lead his team to a Stanley Cup. There can be some losing in between but the early playoff experience appears to be crucial. Fortunately, our own drafted players. Petey and Quinn made the playoffs in their 2nd year. Demko made it in his first full season.

Of course we're in a different phase. Our core players are in their prime. You never know when you're going to get another chance. I often use Winnipeg as an example. Their patient approach led to them wasting their old core's prime (Wheeler, Byfuglien etc.). But with their current core they've really only gotten one run from their current core. Maybe this is their year but I doubt it.
 
None of the options posted are good. Stay the course. If a good deal comes along that works cap wise take it. Do not trade futures, we are a borderline team (due to injuries etc beyond control) but we have a great core.

Wait to see how we do once we are healthy. If we start to climb the ladder, let our 1st go at or near the TDL if we can get a piece that helps us now and stay under the cap.

We should have Lekk, Willander and maybe one or two of EP2, KK, Raty, Sassons, Mini (autocorrect sorry) etc giving us help and some cap relief. Heck may kravtsov comes back and lights it up.
I agree with this. This is the strongest core we have had in a long time, and potentially the strongest core we have ever had. The problems are largely a need for better D, injuries, and chemistry. These are mainly solvable problems, and getting close to or winning a cup also takes luck (ie team health).

I agree that our media is hyperbolic. Our fanbase is as well. Unfortunately it has been that way for a long time (20 years+) and while it's frustrating, I don't think that's changing anytime soon.

Stay the course, continuously improve, solve the problems, and we still have a very good window of opportunity to work with.
 
I agree with this. This is the strongest core we have had in a long time, and potentially the strongest core we have ever had. The problems are largely a need for better D, injuries, and chemistry. These are mainly solvable problems, and getting close to or winning a cup also takes luck (ie team health).

I agree that our media is hyperbolic. Our fanbase is as well. Unfortunately it has been that way for a long time (20 years+) and while it's frustrating, I don't think that's changing anytime soon.

Stay the course, continuously improve, solve the problems, and we still have a very good window of opportunity to work with.
IMO this is the same core they have had for over 6 years.

The fanbase is getting smarter with all the information available outside of the locally owned media and years/decades of hearing the same excuses, the same "Oh look at that player" or "that prospect will change the team" and "the older they get the better"

Recently the concept of players being human was championed but suddenly players have to suck it up and perform regardless of how they feel.
So which is it?
Time off to reset because they are human.
Or no time off (performance) because they signed a contract and are not allowed to feel human, so suck it up?

Suddenly team spirit is secondary, other teams don't want to trade for trouble in a room. reference to Miller and Pettersson.

They didn't make the playoffs for 8 of the last 10 years and the only player under 26yrs old is Hughes. Would something new be worse? The team has not done a rebuild since entering the league. And over 50 years later they haven't won a cup and got close only 3 times
 
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Hmmm. 🤔

Pettersson has been 26 for not even 2 months as well.
 
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There is a performance arc with any core group of players. Markus Naslund had all world skill but struggled with consistency early on and it wasn't until the WCE came together during their peak years that the team was a legitimate contender. When the WCE began to fade, Gillis was open about people wondering whether the Sedin's could be true, elite leaders in the NHL. That was 2008, 9 years after they were drafted! A couple of years earlier, Vigneault wasn't sure. The rest, as they say, is history. They went on to lead the best team in club history. Now, close to 20 years later we're having the same conversation about Pettersson.

All this is just preamble to say that strategy and tactics are different depending on where a particular core is in the cycle.
1. Rebuild: acquire as much draft capital and prospects while off loading aging players that still have significant value.
2. Core development phase: this is very much an exercise in attrition. Develop and test players to see who truly is the core.
3. The learning to win phase. players could be in their prime but still need to find the championship attitude as a group. infrastructure building strategy. You have the core and need to build around them.
4. Peak: Maintain the right infrastructure around the core to maximize the potential of winning a championship. Swapping in and out non-core assets as results/injuries dictate.
5. Peak extension phase. Complement an aging core to extend the competitive window. This might also be considered a retooling phase. This is probably the most difficult phase because waiting too long can have major consequences.
6. Rinse and repeat

There is a time to be patient and there definitely is a time to be impatient. We've seen many examples of teams refusing to rip the bandaid off and start a rebuild. We've seen players rushed through development and fail. But we've also seen teams waste the peak years of the core by not building the infrastructure around them that turns a talented core into a contender.

I think the right assessment for the team now is that they are in the latter part of stage 3. It is time to be impatient. That said, there is such a thing as being smart while impatient. I actually think this defines the current character of Canucks management.
 
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There is a performance arc with any core group of players. Markus Naslund had all world skill but struggled with consistency early on and it wasn't until the WCE came together during their peak years that the team was a legitimate contender. When the WCE began to fade, Gillis was open about people wondering whether the Sedin's could be true, elite leaders in the NHL. That was 2008, 9 years after they were drafted! A couple of years earlier, Vigneault wasn't sure. The rest, as they say, is history. They went on to lead the best team in club history. Now, close to 20 years later we're having the same conversation about Pettersson.
Not quite. Back in the day, most players usually broke out in their 4th-6th (full) NHL season which often coincided with their aged 24-26 seasons. Nowadays, players break out earlier but you still see players breaking out in that time frame. Naslund's breakout fits that time frame. Money was also a big factor impacting the Canucks' ability to be contenders for some of Naslund's years.

The Sedins I think benefited from the rule changes. They also broke out in their 5th full season when they were 25.

Petey's 102 point season came in his 5th season. Hughes as well. Last season was his 5th season.

More importantly, Naslund and Sedins post-breakout took another step forward as their teams got better around him. They didn't suffer performance issues in the middle of their primes.
 

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