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Pre-Game Talk: It’s almost time.... Habs @ Leafs | Wednesday @ 7pm

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Cor said:
It’s almost time!

Doubt anything changes from the standard lines we’ve seen. Perhaps Kerfoot is healthy enough to play. I assume we will see our waivers dump today.

expected lineup:

Thornton - Matthews - Marner
Vesey - Tavares - Nylander
Mikheyev - Engvall - Hyman
Barabanov - Spezza - Simmonds

Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Holl
Lehtonen - Bogosian

Andersen
Campbell
Click to expand...

Robertson should be in the lineup over Vesey.

We need a replacement for Holl. Holl is terribly mediocre. Can Lehtonen play RD? Say put Sandin with Holl/Bogo.
 
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Montreal really bulked up on size and toughness this offseason with additions like Josh Anderson, Corey Perry, Joel Edmundson etc moving off their smaller skilled smurfs lineup of the past.

You have to wonder if that was a deliberate attempt focused mainly our Leafs speed and skill game, as our overall team toughness has been Leafs well known weakness to harness in their talent, and asked to play the game more in the trenches.

Leafs also bulked up with players like Simmonds and Bogosian so now Leaf vs Habs games may have a lot more torrential warfare aspect to games then in the past where both teams previously have preferred non physical and played the game at high pace and skill.

I personally think we're going to see a much different type of Toronto vs. Montreal rivalry more so then in the past particularly in these new times of an all Canadian Div.
 
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ToneDog said:
Habs to 4 no match for our top 4, however IMO they do not suffer as big a drop off between their top 6 and bottom 6 as we do.
Click to expand...
Well part of that is because the Leafs top 6 is one of the best in the league so of course there will be a greater drop off between our top 6 and bottom 6 compared to the habs because their top 6 is nowhere near ours.
 
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OB34KNH said:
Robertson should be in the lineup over Vesey.

We need a replacement for Holl. Holl is terribly mediocre. Can Lehtonen play RD? Say put Sandin with Holl/Bogo.
Click to expand...
Sandin does some nice things with the puck when he has time, but he still has a ways to go on the D side.
I don’t want to take too much from the scrimmage because a lot of guys made weak plays ( pulled up etc ), but we saw the same mistakes from him we’ve seen in the past.
 
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I was really low on Holl before last season but, for whatever reason, he and Muzzin have a great chemistry that Muzzin just didn't find with any other partner. D pairings are funny that way.

I find the Holl hate to be really misplaced for that reason. He and Muzzin were literally one of the best shutdown pairings in the league last year. Why the hell would we break that up? To Holl's credit, he also performed well with Dermott in the same role after injuries struck last year.

Stop trying to move him out of his role. If it proves to be just a one year wonder, fine, let's talk about him getting dropped down the lineup but in the meantime, I'm gonna stick optimistic we may have found a solid D for a bargain price.

Also, I understand he had a rough game or two in the playoffs but I don't think we should throw away the guy due to that.
 
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Mess said:
Montreal really bulked up on size and toughness this offseason with additions like Josh Anderson, Corey Perry, Joel Edmundson etc moving off their smaller skilled smurfs lineup of the past.

You have to wonder if that was a deliberate attempt focused mainly our Leafs speed and skill game, as our overall team toughness has been Leafs well known weakness to harness in their talent, and asked to play the game more in the trenches.

Leafs also bulked up with players like Simmonds and Bogosian so now Leaf vs Habs games may have a lot more torrential warfare aspect to games then in the past where both teams previously have preferred non physical and played the game at high pace and skill.

I personally think we're going to see a much different type of Toronto vs. Montreal rivalry more so then in the past particularly in these new times of an all Canadian Div.
Click to expand...

Our defense is just as good as theirs, if not better. I'd take Rielly over Weber. We have Muzzin and Brodie as #2s, and, Lehtonen is looking like a sure fire top 4D.
Our offense is way better than theirs. Tavares, Matthews, Marner, and, Nylander are better than any forward they have.
 
After watching both scrimmages, I thought our guys looked more up to speed but that may be just due to our group being far more dynamic than the Habs.

Pumped for the game.
 
Peasy said:
Well part of that is because the Leafs top 6 is one of the best in the league so of course there will be a greater drop off between our top 6 and bottom 6 compared to the habs because their top 6 is nowhere near ours.
Click to expand...

Yup and when our top 6 are producing, we will be hard to beat. It is when they do not, that we might be in trouble (especially if Simmonds, Jumbo and Spezza can't keep up). The Habs are more evenly balanced so in theory when their top 2 lines are shut down they should get more out of their bottom 6 than we will.
 
F
Matthews >> Suzuki
Marner >>> Drouin
Thornton = Anderson

Tavares >> Danault
Nylander = Gallager
Vesey << Tatar

For a fanbase that laughs at Thornton/Vesey being in the top 6, are they aware that Josh Anderson had 1 goal last season?

Toffoli > Mikheyev
KK < Kerfoot
Hyman >> Armia

Byron > Barabanov
Evans < Spezza
Lehkonen > Simmonds

Maybe a slight advantage to Montreal at the bottom 6.

D
Weber >= Rielly
Chiarot < Brodie

Petry >= Muzzin
Edmundson > Holl

Kulak - Romanov ? Bogo - Lehtonen

Slightly better here, but not some huge advantage

G

Price > Andersen

Price gets the benefit of the doubt here, but Andersen has had better numbers for multiple years.

Overall: The teams are pretty comparable everywhere except our top 4 forwards. We should be the better team, but the Leafs never do what they should.
 
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OB34KNH said:
Our defense is just as good as theirs, if not better. I'd take Rielly over Weber. We have Muzzin and Brodie as #2s, and, Lehtonen is looking like a sure fire top 4D.
Our offense is way better than theirs. Tavares, Matthews, Marner, and, Nylander are better than any forward they have.
Click to expand...

Well, Weber gets the benefit of the doubt and Rielly is coming off an awful year. At worst you can maybe call them even, but realistically Weber gets the slight advantage.

And as good as Muzzin/Brodie are, they are pretty comparable to Petry and Chariot.

Lehtonen is a big X factor and can easily be better than Edmundson who I am not particularly a big fan of.
 
OB34KNH said:
Our defense is just as good as theirs, if not better. I'd take Rielly over Weber. We have Muzzin and Brodie as #2s, and, Lehtonen is looking like a sure fire top 4D.
Our offense is way better than theirs. Tavares, Matthews, Marner, and, Nylander are better than any forward they have.
Click to expand...

I'm not sold on our D yet. I think its definitely improved quite a bit, but I'll wait for 5 or 10 games to see how they perform. Definitely optimistic.

The forward group though, not even comparable. Its ridiculous they're saying the Habs forwards are as good ours on their board. That's crazy talk.

They've proved nothing yet. Until then they shouldn't be saying much.

Last year we scored 29 more goals than them and played 1 less game. Also only let in 2 more goals then there world class D... and without our new additions.

The year before... Leafs gf 286... habs 246

40 goals and 30 goals the last couple of years I'd say is pretty substantial.

Their forward group could take a big step this year but by no means should they be cocky... at all.
 
ToneDog said:
Yup and when our top 6 are producing, we will be hard to beat. It is when they do not, that we might be in trouble (especially if Simmonds, Jumbo and Spezza can't keep up). The Habs are more evenly balanced so in theory when their top 2 lines are shut down they should get more out of their bottom 6 than we will.
Click to expand...
I mean that is a great theory. In reality it gets you a lot of low scoring loses most of the time. The reality is the Habs season is entirely hinged on Carey Price. If he is healthy all season they will grind out low scoring wins and probably make the playoffs. If he goes down injured or breaks down then the Habs will plummet. For all the talk about the "depth" of the Habs they sure didn't handle their injuries so hot last season.
 
The Podium said:
F
Matthews >> Suzuki
Marner >>> Drouin
Thornton = Anderson

Tavares >> Danault
Nylander = Gallager
Vesey << Tatar

For a fanbase that laughs at Thornton/Vesey being in the top 6, are they aware that Josh Anderson had 1 goal last season?

Toffoli > Mikheyev
KK < Kerfoot
Hyman >> Armia

Byron > Barabanov
Evans < Spezza
Lehkonen > Simmonds

Maybe a slight advantage to Montreal at the bottom 6.

D
Weber >= Rielly
Chiarot < Brodie

Muzzin =< Petry
Holl < Edmundson

Kulak - Romanov ? Bogo - Lehtonen

Slightly better here, but not some huge advantage

G

Price < Andersen

Price gets the benefit of the doubt here, but Andersen has had better numbers for multiple years.

Overall: The teams are pretty comparable everywhere except our top 4 forwards. We should be the better team, but the Leafs never do what they should.
Click to expand...

Thank you sir. That was refreshingly objective.

giphy.gif
 
The Habs success hinges on the development of Suzuki and Kotkaniemi .. Danault a very good #3C. But those other two will need to step up and progress.

The Habs have brought in some good wing depth to help them out, but teams built on the wings typically haven't been that successful. Strength down the middle is key.

They are also hopeful that aging Weber, Petry, and Price can keep up their high level of play.

All things said, they're a mediocre team on paper that could be good with good goaltending and progress from their youngsters.
 
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Nineteen67 said:
Rielly is 6’2? I’ll look and see him beside Brodie.
Click to expand...
I'm 6ft5 and I look right over his head ... he is 6 ft at best with higher heels on ... but that's not his game anywho he is a skater who helps team in transition and offensive end .. in pro hockey don't go by team measurements as they always amp it up an inch or two
 
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The Podium said:
F
Matthews >> Suzuki
Marner >>> Drouin
Thornton = Anderson

Tavares >> Danault
Nylander = Gallager
Vesey << Tatar

For a fanbase that laughs at Thornton/Vesey being in the top 6, are they aware that Josh Anderson had 1 goal last season?

Toffoli > Mikheyev
KK < Kerfoot
Hyman >> Armia

Byron > Barabanov
Evans < Spezza
Lehkonen > Simmonds

Maybe a slight advantage to Montreal at the bottom 6.

D
Weber >= Rielly
Chiarot < Brodie

Muzzin =< Petry
Holl < Edmundson

Kulak - Romanov ? Bogo - Lehtonen

Slightly better here, but not some huge advantage

G

Price < Andersen

Price gets the benefit of the doubt here, but Andersen has had better numbers for multiple years.

Overall: The teams are pretty comparable everywhere except our top 4 forwards. We should be the better team, but the Leafs never do what they should.
Click to expand...

I would disagree with Edmundson being > Holl.

Edmundson is very much the same as Holl where it entirely depends on who their partner is. If they have the right partner they are a stable #4, while if they don’t, they aren’t much more than a bottom pairing player.

I think that’s entirely a wash.

(though, I suppose maybe you were giving the Habs the bias to counter act the argument of leafs bias)
 
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