That's a small sample size and likely a coincidence more than anything. Hernias are considered relatively minor and should never effect someone long term in any noticeable way unless it's someone of middle age or beyond.
Islanders Woes
- Thread starter VoynovsParoleOfficer
- Start date
That's a small sample size and likely a coincidence more than anything. Hernias are considered relatively minor and should never effect someone long term in any noticeable way unless it's someone of middle age or beyond.
Sidney the Kidney
One last time
- Jun 29, 2009
- 55,509
- 49,865
Short-term solution would be to let Capuano go. But I don't think that solves the long-term issues with the Isles. That lands squarely on Snow's shoulders.
IMO, he's just not a very good GM. He's not horrible, I don't think. He's made some solid moves. But he's also fallen short in key areas that needed to be addressed to turn the Isles from simply being a playoff team to actually being a contender.
Snow's off-season was bad. I've made my opinion on letting Nielsen go and not replacing him known, so I won't rehash the reasoning behind it. But that was arguably the biggest issue.
Snow relying on Strome/Nelson/Barzal/etc. to replace Nielsen was just silly, IMO. You don't lose your 2nd most important forward and expect players who've never come close to that level of play to replace them.
Keeping the three-headed goalie fiasco is up there, too.
In regards to Ladd versus Okposo, I think Isles fans are seeing that you can't just pencil in someone new and think, "he'll click better with Tavares than the player going out did". Ladd does some things well that Okposo doesn't, but Okposo does some things well that Ladd doesn't. At best, they cancel each other out. At worst, you switched a better, younger offensive player for an older, slower but defensively more responsible player.
For the record, I don't think the Isles will finish the season as bad as they are right now (ie. second last in the conference). I still actually see a playoff team, even if they're not currently playing like one. But overall, I just think Snow falls short too often to be kept around and be the guy to lead them to the next level.
IMO, he's just not a very good GM. He's not horrible, I don't think. He's made some solid moves. But he's also fallen short in key areas that needed to be addressed to turn the Isles from simply being a playoff team to actually being a contender.
Snow's off-season was bad. I've made my opinion on letting Nielsen go and not replacing him known, so I won't rehash the reasoning behind it. But that was arguably the biggest issue.
Snow relying on Strome/Nelson/Barzal/etc. to replace Nielsen was just silly, IMO. You don't lose your 2nd most important forward and expect players who've never come close to that level of play to replace them.
Keeping the three-headed goalie fiasco is up there, too.
In regards to Ladd versus Okposo, I think Isles fans are seeing that you can't just pencil in someone new and think, "he'll click better with Tavares than the player going out did". Ladd does some things well that Okposo doesn't, but Okposo does some things well that Ladd doesn't. At best, they cancel each other out. At worst, you switched a better, younger offensive player for an older, slower but defensively more responsible player.
For the record, I don't think the Isles will finish the season as bad as they are right now (ie. second last in the conference). I still actually see a playoff team, even if they're not currently playing like one. But overall, I just think Snow falls short too often to be kept around and be the guy to lead them to the next level.
1. I think most Islander fans underestimate Okposo. He is a very good player entering the prime of his career. It's very difficult to replace that kind of production, even if he wasn't an all-star player and didn't mesh with JT. The issue is they replaced him with Ladd, but there were very few options here. No way could you go into this season not replacing an Okposo with a relatively big name player- imo they were really in a bad position either way, but given Ladd's current play, it's easy to argue no team should have dished out this kind of contract. Every GM knows this kind of contract is terrible for the latter years, but the signing was for the next two years to ensure this team is competitive. Why two years? To show Tavares this is still a winning team before he is a FA.
2.Nielsen is totally different. Yes, it's a long term contract for an over 30 player, but I think he was too integral to the two-way play of this team. The Islanders understood this, which is why they offered him a long term deal, but Frans turned it down. Unlike Okposo, he could play in all situations and is extremely reliable, and it's much more difficult to fill the shoes of a player like Nielsen, especially with current guys on the roster who play so different i.e. strome
3. Letting PAP go was horrific management.
4.Chemistry is the main issue. Hate to say it but this can be addressed with minor additions and mixing of the lines as the season continues. There are a lot of good forwards aside from Tavares on this team - Nelson, Clutterbuck, Lee- I would include Strome but I think he is lost and looking more like Josh Bailey every game.
5. Leddy and Hamonic are incredible. Get rid of them.
Glen Sathers Cigar
Sather 4 Ever
Just saying, but the Rangers made it to the SCF with only 1 RH forward (Stepan), 2 if you count Dorsett but he split time with Carcillo.
I said to all my Islanders fan friends all off season, that I could see them taking a step back and the biggest thing to me was losing Nielsen. I've watched countless Islanders games over the past decade, Frans Nielsen was the 2nd most important player on the team, after Tavares. He's a swiss army knife of players. PP, PK, 5v5 he's awesome in every facet of the game.
Also, losing Okposo and replacing him with the older and (in my opinion) worse Ladd made no sense to me, I'd have rather over paid Okposo than Ladd.
Losing Martin might hurt the room, but Kulemin is an okay replacement on the 4th line, so I think this loss isn't as bad.
And the kids haven't progressed as quickly as needed/expected. The Ranger have seen this the past few seasons, each season expecting Kreider/Miller/Hayes to take the next step and counting on it and then it not happening completely (thankfully now it seems all 3 have finally figured it out). Counting on the kids can be a risky plan bc of growing pains and such.
IDK, I still think the talent is there to be a playoff team, but what I've seen from them so far this season would have me worried if I were a fan. They were always a strong CF% team and now they're in the bottom of the league. That's one thing, for the past few seasons they were fast and they would pepper goalies. Now I feel like they're not as fast and they're always getting out shot.
SLAPSHOT723
QU! Bobcats!
VoidCreature
Registered User
I don't understand why Isles fans still think getting rid of Okpsoso was a good idea. I haven't watched him near as much as you guys, but he was a consistent 65 point player. That's a LOT of production. Borderline elite. If you don't replace that you're going to feel it.
Hellraiser
Registered User
The Devils can relate to this losing Clarkson, Parise and Kovy all within a calendar year, Its tough and takes a huge toll on the team, but I'm sure it'll get better for the Isles soon at least they still have a star player in Tavares and good players like Boychuk and Leddy. Or everyone could just be overreacting and they may just have to can capuano look at how well Pittsburgh did after firing Johnston. Man, that Ladd contract will be a burden for a long time, it doesn't make sense to pay that much when you could retain Okposo for just a little more
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Glen Sathers Cigar
Sather 4 Ever
I don't believe you...
Ranger fans don't have Islander fan friends
Growing up on Long Island will do that!
I could be wrong, but I think they didn't sign Ladd to replace Okposo. The plan was probably not to replace him, but they thought Frans was going to resign. It was when they realized at the end that he wasn't going to, that they decided they needed to bring in another vet.
Also, I think the drafting has been typical. People think the average 9th pick is an all star player, but that's not the case. They haven't knocked it out of the park, but most teams don't.
Also, I think the drafting has been typical. People think the average 9th pick is an all star player, but that's not the case. They haven't knocked it out of the park, but most teams don't.
Sidney the Kidney
One last time
- Jun 29, 2009
- 55,509
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While that may be true from a historical point of view, I think the optics of their drafting a top-5 player looks bad when you consider some of the players taken within ~10 picks after the guys they took and how good some of them have become.
2010- Niederreiter (Skinner, Fowler, Schwartz, Tarasenko)
2011- Strome (Zibanejad, Scheifele, Couturier, D. Hamilton)
2012- Reinhart (Reilly, Lindholm, Dumba, Trouba, Forsberg)
2014- Dal Colle (Nylander, Ehlers, Larkin)
Some of those will be hindsight, but a lot of those guys were rated around where the Islanders were picking. The Isles just seemed to always take what turned out to be the lesser player at those spots.
Pure Slaughter Value
Registered User
Most teams in the five spot would've taken Strome and Dal Colle.
Definitely agree about the Neiderreiter and Reinhard picks though. They were both reaches and drafted out of alleged need, not bpa.
As a Ranger fan on Long Island I have friends who can't/won't go to games anymore. Look at all the empty seats in that building. To get there from the island, you need to take the very expensive LIRR and transfer in Queens. Two train rides and slot of $$. No tail gating either which used to be very popular in the coliseum lot.
It was so convenient being a 10 minute drive from the old barn and being able to see the best hockey players in the world come to town for ~ 10-20 bucks.
Hopefully they can move back to the island and be competitive again.
It was so convenient being a 10 minute drive from the old barn and being able to see the best hockey players in the world come to town for ~ 10-20 bucks.
Hopefully they can move back to the island and be competitive again.
I don't believe you...
Ranger fans don't have Islander fan friends
I was the Isles fan in a sea of Rangers fans growing up in Brooklyn. There were 2-3 of us that liked the Isles, surrounded by dozens of ********** (I mean our friends. Sorry, typo)
Bull. Reinhart was projected as a top D, a big guy who needed to play angrier, but was top notch defensively, with a good head for the PP. While the draft positions around 4 were a tossup between a few, it was in NO way a reach.
Neidereiter was definitely ranked later, but was picking up steam towards the draft. here's one draft analysis on him:
http://www.hockeywilderness.com/2010/6/21/1528705/nhl-draft-prospect-preview-nino
Here's one from his NHL draft profile - https://books.google.com/books?id=9...=onepage&q=niederreiter draft profile&f=false
"If the stars are very lucky he could fall to 11" - http://www.defendingbigd.com/2010/6/13/1516107/2010-nhl-draft-profile-nino
It's not like this was Brett Lindros here. It was never a huge reach. The Isles wanted Ryan Johansen, he was gone, they took Neidereiter.
As for Dal Colle, look back to the mock drafts here. He was ABSOLUTELY the defacto pick at 5.
Strome was someone I followed closely, and while I was pissed the Devils took Larrson with the pick before ours, I was very happy we were able to select Strome. He was highly regarded that draft year, and definitely wasn't out of place.
But put them with Cappy, and well... We see his history. I just hope Dal Colle doesn't have to deal with him next year.
CodeE
step on snek
Yeah, Islanders haven't made very many "reach" picks. Nino, Reinhart, MDC were all 100% "good" picks at the time. Bailey was the last head-scratcher I can remember, DeHaan too was projected to go late 1st/early 2nd.
yeah, De Haan was slotted for the 20-25 spot
TSN had Bailey at 12 - we also traded down twice and got him. Those trades turned into Hamonic + others. 2008 was great for us.
http://www2.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=7125
TSN had Bailey at 12 - we also traded down twice and got him. Those trades turned into Hamonic + others. 2008 was great for us.
http://www2.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=7125
Sidney the Kidney
One last time
- Jun 29, 2009
- 55,509
- 49,865
I'd say only the Dal Colle pick was the consensus pick. Leading up to, and around the draft, many rated Couturier and Hamilton ahead of Strome.
SLAPSHOT723
QU! Bobcats!
In 2011 there were the Elite 4 and the Big 4.
Elite 4 (1-4): RNH, Landeskog, Huberdeau, Larsson
Big 4 (5-8): Strome, Couturier, Hamilton, Ryan Murphy
From what I remember, any of the 1-4 were interchangeable and 5-8 were interchangeable. Ratings wise, there was nothing wrong with drafting Strome above Couturier and Hamilton (even though I did want one of them over Strome). As you said, MDC was consensus as well.
Sheva7
Work Hahd Play Smaht
- Oct 11, 2011
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- 452
Garths off-season was a disaster. He really ****ed over the team by not hanging on to Frans. Picking up useless Chimera was a waste and waiving Parenteau was mind boggling.
All that said, I think Snows biggest knock is his allegiance to his buffoon of a coach. It's ridiculous.
Capuano is a nightmare.
All that said, I think Snows biggest knock is his allegiance to his buffoon of a coach. It's ridiculous.
Capuano is a nightmare.
Sidney the Kidney
One last time
- Jun 29, 2009
- 55,509
- 49,865
Yeah, that's why I said Strome wouldn't be considered the consensus pick at that spot. There were a couple of others (most notably Hamilton and Couturier) who were also rated around that spot.
Dal Colle was the only pick that was pretty much #5 on every scouting service's rankings, thus the only consensus pick the Isles made.
m302291
Registered User
- Jun 2, 2015
- 1,433
- 33
One thing that always confused me about Snow's drafting is why he always picked such similar players.
Like Slapshot is saying, there is never a definitive ranking of prospects behind the first two or three picks. It doesn't make sense that Snow wouldn't try to get a little more variety.
Okposo, Nelson, Nino, and Dal Colle are all extremely similar in that they are shoot first players, but not necessarily snipers. Not good skaters, didn't have great size, not good playmakers or defenders, but had good top 6 support player potential
Bailey and Strome are similar too in that they are the same as above only pass first rather than shoot first, but weren't good enough to play the pivot at the NHL level.
Barzal, Beau and Ho Sang are the only first round forwards that you can define their game easily and know what they are bringing to the table. And all three play a different game too.
He should have been drafting like this from the beginning.
Like Slapshot is saying, there is never a definitive ranking of prospects behind the first two or three picks. It doesn't make sense that Snow wouldn't try to get a little more variety.
Okposo, Nelson, Nino, and Dal Colle are all extremely similar in that they are shoot first players, but not necessarily snipers. Not good skaters, didn't have great size, not good playmakers or defenders, but had good top 6 support player potential
Bailey and Strome are similar too in that they are the same as above only pass first rather than shoot first, but weren't good enough to play the pivot at the NHL level.
Barzal, Beau and Ho Sang are the only first round forwards that you can define their game easily and know what they are bringing to the table. And all three play a different game too.
He should have been drafting like this from the beginning.
But the argument was that the picks were reaches. They weren't. They were picked right around where they were expected to be.
Don't forget the new owners, they are already there for over 2 years.
Isles deserve this. They are a joke. My God, these clowns, made Snow President and Alternate Governor hahaha
But the good thing is they will feel it in their pocket. Barclays can reduce the money if Isles are a mess ... and Isles are a mess.
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