Speculation: Is winning games and being first in the Atlantic an indication that we're a bad team?

[Gary Nylund]

If this core had already won 6 series with a trip to the Eastern final, I think most would agree it was a good run.

I think you're right. I mean we obviously all want the cup, but I'm not one of those who say it's all meaningless if you don't win the cup. Every playoff series you win is something, even every playoff game you win is something and the more the better. I want the team to win some rounds, a lot more than 1 round in 8 years and I also want to feel like I can be proud of the team, that they played as hard as they can and left it all out there. I felt that way way when we lost to WSH, not sure I've felt like that since and that was a long time ago.

This team is on track to have the best regular season decade ever, and also a record for the most playoff futility in a decade. It's just weird but for me, overall unsatisfying, at least so far. I also think our window will be closing pretty soon considering our core doesn't have many prime years left and our D is old as f*** and could start sharply declining at any moment so if this core is ever going to give us some excitement, they need to get started.

I meant having a losing record for 8 straight years in the playoffs is most likely not a record.

I do believe losing 7 times in the first round in 8 years is.

Ah OK I think I got it now. I assume they don't track stuff like this (small mercies), but that's interesting anyway. I think I'll go make myself a coffee now LOL.

 

[Nineteen67]

I think you're right. I mean we obviously all want the cup, but I'm not one of those who say it's all meaningless if you don't win the cup. Every playoff series you win is something, even every playoff game you win is something and the more the better. I want the team to win some rounds, a lot more than 1 round in 8 years and I also want to feel like I can be proud of the team, that they played as hard as they can and left it all out there. I felt that way way when we lost to WSH, not sure I've felt like that since and that was a long time ago.

This team is on track to have the best regular season decade ever, and also a record for the most playoff futility in a decade. It's just weird but for me, overall unsatisfying, at least so far. I also think our window will be closing pretty soon considering our core doesn't have many prime years left and our D is old as f*** and could start sharply declining at any moment so if this core is ever going to give us some excitement, they need to get started.


Ah OK I think I got it now. I assume they don't track stuff like this (small mercies), but that's interesting anyway. I think I'll go make myself a coffee now LOL.

The idea of winning the Cup in those years went out the window with “we can and we will” and was never a realistic expectation.
Today, they’re still in the same boat in that they don’t many players that have demonstrated they’re good enough in their role to contribute to winning a couple of rounds. Some have shown they’re not good enough.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The idea of winning the Cup in those years went out the window with “we can and we will” and was never a realistic expectation.
Today, they’re still in the same boat in that they don’t many players that have demonstrated they’re good enough in their role to contribute to winning a couple of rounds. Some have shown they’re not good enough.

I wish I could poke holes in this but ... sigh.

 

[sunstersun]

No one here would be jaded about this regular season if we won in the playoffs a bit more.

But last year we lost to a crippled Bruins team. It wasn't prime Chara, Marchand and Bergeron.

Their best center was like Zacha. It should have been a series to win, but we didn't.

Everything after that series is BS until proven wrong in the playoffs. Why? Because the preponderance of evidence suggest the Leafs are frauds in the regular season.

 

[therealkoho]

I have a feeling that whether or not we're a good team or a bad team, in the final analysis the blame should be laid and have light shed on it that it's Marners fault and will always be Marners fault.

 

[Kazparov]

Regular season is just practice for the playoffs

Now it is but it wasn't in previous years. It was a completely different play style.

 

[Gary Nylund]

No one here would be jaded about this regular season if we won in the playoffs a bit more.

But last year we lost to a crippled Bruins team. It wasn't prime Chara, Marchand and Bergeron.

Their best center was like Zacha. It should have been a series to win, but we didn't.

Everything after that series is BS until proven wrong in the playoffs. Why? Because the preponderance of evidence suggest the Leafs are frauds in the regular season.

I wouldn't, that's for sure. Say we were something like 10-8 in playoff series with this core, I'd be so much more interested thinking about how this lineup might fare in the playoffs. But when you just lose every single time, it's more like OK another December game, whatever.

 

[Kazparov]

Great thread. Leaf nation will only be happy if every game is won 6 - 0 with 40 shots to 0 and Mitch Marner playing like prime Eric Lindros.

I swear we could go 82-0 then 16-0 and people would still find shit to complain about.

 

[ACC1224]

I have a feeling that whether or not we're a good team or a bad team, in the final analysis the blame should be laid and have light shed on it that it's Marners fault and will always be Marners fault.

It is hard for some to consider more than one thing at a time.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Great thread. Leaf nation will only be happy if every game is won 6 - 0 with 40 shots to 0 and Mitch Marner playing like prime Eric Lindros.

I swear we could go 82-0 then 16-0 and people would still find shit to complain about.

Clueless.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

I don't think anyone has ever said this team is a bad team.

Mediocre maybe. Playoffs loser definitely. But not bad.

They're just sorta meh.

I don't know about anyone else but that's not good enough for me. I want to see them win the cup. The only one who'd be happier than me if that ever happened would be my girlfriend.

Because that would be a neverending Viagra moment.

The fans deserve a team they can be proud of. They deserve a team that isn't the butt of every joke and meme on the hockey internet. They deserve a team of actual contenders.

Not this mediocre playoffs losing pretender contender they've been blessed with instead.

 

[therealkoho]

I think we're a really good team that has character issues.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I think we're a really good team that has character issues.

Can a team with character issues be a really good team?

 

[sunstersun]

Rielly is a big red alarm. The man is declining quick while on a terrible contract.

He's like the 4th best defender.

 

[colchar]

Winning matters, how they win doesn't. The Stanley Cup is awarded based on games won, not style points.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Rielly is a big red alarm. The man is declining quick while on a terrible contract.

He's like the 4th best defender.

I don't know man. 4th best? I just know that Rielly usually shifts gears leading up to and in the playoffs. He's been like this for most of his career with Toronto.

 

[Maple Leaf]

They are just saving themselves for the aoggs

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

The sky's definitely not falling. The teams' been OK, just OK. 1st in a weak division and an unimpressive goal differential of +9 but whatever. It's 82 games of practice before the real season so as long as they bring it in April I'll be happy.

We've had 8 consecutive seasons of sub .500 hockey in the playoffs which is probably an all-time NHL record. My biggest concern is despite a new coach, a new and improved system and much better goaltending, it's the same old core that seems to lack leadership and character. As long as it's the same 4 forwards taking up half the cap, how realistic is it that things will suddenly be different this year? We'll see what happens in the playoffs but my best guess at this point is that we will win a round, not impossible that we will even win another round and that will largely be due to goalies stealing a game or two along the way. Hard to see anything more than that but we can hope.

As of the morning of December 21st 2024 the Leafs are 1st in the Atlantic, 2 points out of 1st in the East, and 3 points out of 1st in the NHL, with a game in hand on the Jets AND they play the Jets on Monday.

You don't put yourself in a position to be 1st in the NHL possibly by Christmas by being "Just OK" although they would need a little help to do that but It's still possible.

They are also 7-3 this month.

Is everything perfect? HELL NO, I still want a 3C, I'm not down with Domi as the 3C come playoff time, I have NO interest in that.

I'd also be looking at a top 9 winger,

and I'd be monitoring the goalie market because while it's not an issue right now Stolarz is hurt, and current tandem is Woll/Murray both are very VERY injury prone you need to keep an eye out just incase something happens to Woll or Murray especially Woll.

There are things I'd like to see improved but you don't get to where they are in the standings by being "Just OK "

It's not possible.

 

[nsleaf]

 

[Gary Nylund]

As of the morning of December 21st 2024 the Leafs are 1st in the Atlantic, 2 points out of 1st in the East, and 3 points out of 1st in the NHL, with a game in hand on the Jets AND they play the Jets on Monday.

You don't put yourself in a position to be 1st in the NHL possibly by Christmas by being "Just OK" although they would need a little help to do that but It's still possible.

They are also 7-3 this month.

Is everything perfect? HELL NO, I still want a 3C, I'm not down with Domi as the 3C come playoff time, I have NO interest in that.

I'd also be looking at a top 9 winger,

and I'd be monitoring the goalie market because while it's not an issue right now Stolarz is hurt, and current tandem is Woll/Murray both are very VERY injury prone you need to keep an eye out just incase something happens to Woll or Murray especially Woll.

There are things I'd like to see improved but you don't get to where they are in the standings by being "Just OK "

It's not possible.

PTS% is the way to look at the standings. Tied for 4th is pretty good, note that the standings are so tightly packed that a week from now we could be 1st overall, but we could also be 12th. Also note that we're closer to 11th than to 1st. Just Ok is a relative term but if you feel insulted by that, I'll change to that to good. We've been good, just like we've been good every year with this core, better?

Where we are today doesn't matter so much, what matters is where we're at when the season is over and even that I don't care about that much. Finish 1st, finish 12th, I don't much care, what matters even more (at least to me) is how we fare in the playoffs. We're on track to finish in our usual spot, somewhere between 4th and 10th, the question is how will we do in the playoffs which is where it's fallen apart for us. Is there reason to think this year will be different?

I say yes, not sure how much different though. The goaltending is better, that's huge and that's the main reason why I think we have a good chance to win a round or two. The new system, also good. Winning the cup though, the goalies can't do that on their own so we need our big stars to play like big stars in the playoffs. Marner always fades after 4 games, if that happens again we're in trouble. Matthews doesn't look good, if he doesn't look a whole lot better in the playoffs, we're in trouble. Bottom line is I'm not going to get excited because we're 4th overall in December, after all this is nothing we haven't seen before. It's a long season, getting excited about 4th overall in December is like getting excited about being up by a goal early in the 2nd period of game 1 of a 7 game series, it's better than being down by a goal for sure but it's also way too early to get excited. JMHO.

 

[Fogelhund]

The Atlantic is absolutely on a bender right now.

Leafs 7-3 W3
Florida 7-2-1 W3
Tampa 7-3 W4
Boston 6-3-1
Ottawa 7-2-1 W5

We've played very well, but a bad couple of weeks, and we could be 5th in the division. The pressure to perform all season long will be intense, if the other teams keep this up. This isn't looking like a weak division at all. Edit... if the season ended now, FIVE Atlantic teams make the playoffs... and we'd play Boston.

 

[Zybalto]

The first good news is that we are in the position we are in despite being one of the most injured teams in the league.
More good news for us come playoff time is that the big reasons we are in the position are the heroics of our goaltending and Marner/Nylander/Tavares.

The concerning things to me are:

Team D: Goaltending and the shot blocking defensive wizard Tanev addition has covered up the fact the team looks worse defensively so far under Berube. Injuries have played a part here IMO and I'm hoping the team gets up to speed now that they are healthy. They are looking more run and gun compared with Keefe (who has turned the Devils completely around from a bottom 10 to top 10 defensive team in NJ)
Health: We need the team and especially need our goaltending to be able to stay healthy through the playoffs. People want to blame this and that but losing Nylander/Matthews/McMann/Woll last playoffs hurt us more than anything else (Could you imagine Florida losing Barkov/Tkatchuk/Bennet/Bob and going anywhere?).
Matthews not up to speed: This relates to the injuries and Berube said yesterday he's still fighting through something. We need him to be healthy and dominant like he was in game 2 last year before he went down.