Is USA hockey's window smaller than we think ?

[ORRFForever]

As I said earlier, just like how Canadians (grudgingly) give credit to the excellent 2015-2019 U.S. drafts, anti Canadian posters needs to do the same with what came after 2020.

Canada's about to hit a wave of excellence. The players will make their mark from 2030 on.

Canadian here, if anything I'm feeling threatened by the States as a powerhouse. These are just some of their emerging guys who are 27 or younger:

#1 C's: Matthews (26), J. Hughes (22), Eichel (27); other candidates - Tage (26), Larkin (27), Cooley (19)
Top-6 wings: Tkachuks (26/ 24), J-Rob (24), Keller (25), Boeser (26), Boldy (22), Connor (27), DeBrincat (26), Caufield (22)...
Top D: Q. Hughes (24), Werenski (26), Fox (25), L. Hughes (20), McAvoy (26), Faber (21)...


Goalies (28 or younger): Otter (25), Demko (28), Swayman (25), Wolf (22), Woll (25), Stolarz (27) => even Hellebuyck is only 30

I think you need to read the thread before posting.

 

[Summer Rose]

Care to tell us how the 1972 & 1980 US Teams beat Czechoslovakia in The Olympics? How did the 1979 US Team tie Czechoslovakia 2-2? That US Team
was thrown together from NCAA Teams and some NHL players. Two out of the three teams faced way, way worse odds not getting beaten.

Canada will not win 3 straight events between 2025-2028. Not going to happen as they are no where near as dominant as Team USA Basketball, apples to oranges.

Eh. It's unlikely, sure. Will it definitely not happen? No, it absolutely has a chance to happen. I wouldn't say it's a good one. They'll (rightly) be one of the favorites in 2026 and 2028. To say that it won't happen is entirely different than it being unlikely to happen.

 

[ORRFForever]

There is nothing wrong with the future of USA Hockey.

NO ONE is saying there is something wrong with USA Hockey.

Posters are just saying there is a generation of Canadian players coming that will put Canada on another level for a decade.

 

[ref19]

I don’t think there is a window for the USA lol.

NO ONE is saying there is something wrong with USA Hockey.

Posters are just saying there is a generation of Canadian players coming that will put Canada on another level for a decade.

I love that. Have you seen what the US has coming not just out of Minnesota but the rest of the country? Iron sharpens iron, baby. So good for the game.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

Eh. It's unlikely, sure. Will it definitely not happen? No, it absolutely has a chance to happen. I wouldn't say it's a good one. They'll (rightly) be one of the favorites in 2026 and 2028. To say that it won't happen is entirely different than it being unlikely to happen.

And? This thread isn't about the Czech window (that shit closed around 2005). No one is posting if the Czech time is now.

But, if you really want to have this chat.. since 1996 (last US gold at a senior level) the Czechs won 7 Skodas (better than Russia) and a best on best Olympics to 0 medals by the USA at a senior level event. And I totally agree the US have been better in this stretch but we got more medals in the USA's best period (so far) and in our worst period (hoping it ends but it may also get worse). US seems to having a winning big games issue like Russia does because both groups of posters keep pointing out round robin wins and not gold medal victories (like the Canadian posters can do)

This thread is about that US window

So you beat us in 1972.. did you win the tourney?
So you beat us in 1976.. did you win the tourney?
You beat us in 1980 and WON the tourney!!! Miracle on ice is a great story and I'm pretty sure you beat the living shit out of us, no? 7-2 or something like that?
1981 Canada Cup was won by who?
1984 Canada Cup was won by who?

To your one point though.. what is BOB? And the Czechoslovkian teams won a medal at every World's from 1972 to 1984 yet their Olympics were a little worse and they had an advantage.. I'd say they choked at a few Olympics for sure!

View attachment 980943

3 medals to 2 in those 4 Olympics. However, I'd trade 1 bronze and 2 silvers for a silver and a gold any day of the week!

FWIW - the US teams had more success in this stretch (1972 to 1984) than they have in the 2000s which is crazy.

So since you want to use 1972 to 1984

Skoda medals
12 to 0

Olympic Medals
3 to 2
Canada Cup medals

View attachment 980946

1 to 0

Grand total is 16 to 2 for senior events from 1972 to 1984 using Olympics, Worlds and Canada Cups. I'd give the US the edge in Olympics in this frame though!

BOB means best on best.

 

[Summer Rose]

BOB means best on best.

I'm confused. Your reply makes perfect sense in response to Czechboy. What does what I said have to do with it though?

 

[ORRFForever]

Have you seen what the US has coming not just out of Minnesota but the rest of the country?

Yes - the 2020-2026 drafts where Canada is producing not only 3 times as many first rounders as the U.S., but the Canadian kids are on another level.

 

[ORRFForever]

I'm confused. Your reply makes perfect sense in response to Czechboy. What does what I said have to do with it though?

Go easy on @KillerMillerTime. He's 70 years old - on February 14th, he wished everyone a Merry Christmas.

 

[Summer Rose]

Go easy on @KillerMillerTime. He's 70 years old - on February 14th, he wished everyone a Merry Christmas.

So did the United States Postal Service. That's when they finally delivered Christmas cards that were addressed to me.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

I'm confused. Your reply makes perfect sense in response to Czechboy. What does what I said have to do with it though?

For some reason your post appeared in the reply. Just ignore it.

So did the United States Postal Service. That's when they finally delivered Christmas cards that were addressed to me.

Better late than never and don't forget to add them back to your X-Mass card list.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Cope

Appears you are coping.

 

[CarolinaBlueJacket]

The coming Canadian players are so good that next time they will call the tournament 1 Nation instead of 4 Nations.

The other 3 countries will play round robin games and then they will just give the trophy to Canada.

 

[ORRFForever]

The coming Canadian players are so good that next time they will call the tournament 1 Nation instead of 4 Nations.

The other 3 countries will play round robin games and then they will just give the trophy to Canada.

Sounds good to me.

 

[FlappyGiraffe]

The coming Canadian players are so good that next time they will call the tournament 1 Nation instead of 4 Nations.

The other 3 countries will play round robin games and then they will just give the trophy to Canada.

To be fair to Orr, it looks like it's gonna be 5 straight Canadian 1st overalls with 4 of them being above average/borderline generational guys.

Bedard, Celebrini, Schaefer, McKenna, Dupont.

McDavid and Makar will still be top end players for a good portion of that new wave

 

[CarolinaBlueJacket]

I know!! No point in even trying now.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I guess if Canada goes 6 for 6 or 7 for 7 on the generational prospects we might be in a bit of trouble.

 

[featherhawk]

The USA window is wide open and it will not be in danger of closing for the forseable future.

the US Development program was set up in such a way that it will breed success across the USA and it is working. Saw this trend over the past couple decades.

Canada will always produce great hockey players however the hockey hotbed now is in the USA and it will only continue to grow at significant rates when US kids understand that Hockey is an option for them and its working.

Look at the World Juniors to see evidence...

Canada and the USA are two powerhouse feeder countries to the NHL followed by (in no particular order) Sweden, Russia, Finland, Czechia, Slovakia, Switzerland, Latvia, Italy etc...

 

[ORRFForever]

I guess if Canada goes 6 for 6 or 7 for 7 on the generational prospects we might be in a bit of trouble.

I don't know why it's so hard for you to give credit where credit is due.

 

[ORRFForever]

The USA window is wide open and it will not be in danger of closing for the forseable future.

the US Development program was set up in such a way that it will breed success across the USA and it is working. Saw this trend over the past couple decades.

Canada will always produce great hockey players however the hockey hotbed now is in the USA and it will only continue to grow at significant rates when US kids understand that Hockey is an option for them and its working.

Look at the World Juniors to see evidence...

Canada and the USA are two powerhouse feeder countries to the NHL followed by (in no particular order) Sweden, Russia, Finland, Czechia, Slovakia, Switzerland, Latvia, Italy etc...

Canada will have a minimum of 7 drafts (2020-2026) where they produced 3x the number of first round picks as the U.S. with a higher ceiling across the board. If you can't see that as a huge advantage for the foreseeable future, then I don't know what to say.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I don't know why it's so hard for you to give credit where credit is due.

I give a ton of credit. What I said was a little bit tongue-in-cheek.

But we just matched up well with a team that has prime McDavid, prime MacKinnon and prime Makar, which are your current A+ elites. If guys like Bedard, McKenna and I guess that defenseman (Schafer?) turn into the same, the algebra hasn't really changed. It would take a big slowdown on our side, or a few more of your prospective game-changers (Celebrini, Fantilli, etc) to pan out to their fullest for it start to change the equation in a meaningful way. I'm talking about an absolute zero chance to win, sort of way.

 

[ORRFForever]

Stealing this from an American poster @ismelofhockey...

2020 Draft:
USA: Faber, Sanderson, Laferriere
CAN: Lafrenière, Byfield, Jarvis, Guhle, Holloway, Quinn, Perfetti, Drysdale, Mercer, Cuylle, Schneider, Lapierre, Greig

2021 Draft:
USA: Beniers, L.Hughes, Knies
CAN: Power, Johnston, McTavish, Guenther, Stankoven, Clarke, Sillinger, Johnson

2022 Draft:
USA: Hutson, Cooley, Gauthier, Nazar
CAN: Wright, Korchinski, Mateychuk, Poitras, Geekie

2023 Draft:
USA: Smith, Leonard, Augustine
CAN: Bedard, Fantilli, Benson, Danielson, Ritchie

2024 Draft:
USA: Buium
CAN: Celebrini, Sennecke, Lindstrom, Iginla, Yakemchuk, Catton, Parekh, Dickinson, Luchanko

And 2025 + 2026 are STACKED with Canadian talent.

If the rolls were reversed, American posters would be saying Canadian Hockey is DOOMED.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Rossi isn't Canadian.

 

[Summer Rose]

Stealing this from an American poster @ismelofhockey...

2020 Draft:
USA: Faber, Sanderson, Laferriere
CAN: Lafrenière, Byfield, Jarvis, Guhle, Rossi, Holloway, Quinn, Perfetti, Drysdale, Mercer, Cuylle, Schneider, Lapierre, Greig

2021 Draft:
USA: Beniers, L.Hughes, Knies
CAN: Power, Johnston, McTavish, Guenther, Stankoven, Clarke, Sillinger, Johnson

2022 Draft:
USA: Hutson, Cooley, Gauthier, Nazar
CAN: Wright, Korchinski, Mateychuk, Poitras, Geekie

2023 Draft:
USA: Smith, Leonard, Augustine
CAN: Bedard, Fantilli, Benson, Danielson, Ritchie

2024 Draft:
USA: Buium
CAN: Celebrini, Sennecke, Lindstrom, Iginla, Yakemchuk, Catton, Parekh, Dickinson, Luchanko

And 2025 + 2026 is stacked with Canadian talent.

If the rolls were reversed, American posters would be saying Canadian Hockey is D.O.A.

Based on this, I would expect the tide to turn back into Canada's favor at the world juniors. First rounders can bust (or otherwise not live up to expectations), and there's always lots of hidden talent in later rounds for reasons such as underscouting or being late bloomers. Based on the sheer volume of players coming out of the United States and Canada, that makes things a lot closer, in my opinion, but Canada still retains an edge even if you do consider that.

 

[ORRFForever]

Rossi isn't Canadian.

In my defense, it's not my list. I will delete Rossi.

 

[ORRFForever]

@Dr Jan Itor
@featherhawk
@ismelofhockey

As I posted elsewhere, I fully expect the U.S. to win the Olympics in 2026 - the team is HUGE and talented.

Maybe you run into a HOT goalie that ruins everything but, all things considered, you are due and you have an excellent team.

If I was a gambler, I'd put money on the Red White and Blue in 2026.