Is Tretiak up with Roy and Hasek as top three, or is he in the next tier?

space1999

Registered User
Jul 11, 2012
20
2
Comparing Tony Esposito, Ken Dryden and Vladislav Tretiak in the 1972 Summit Series

And he didn't "totally outplay" Esposito in 1972, at least; if you take Tretiak's 4 best games and compare them with Esposito's 4 games in the series, okay, he was definitely better, but if you take his 4 worst games, then Esposito was a little better.

He outplayed Dryden about 4 times in the 7 games (I think?) that they played against each other over the years.

Considering that Tretiak played on team(s) that were basically always favourites to beat their opponents, his numbers (GAA etc) aren't really very mindblowing. On the other hand, his Soviet MVP finishes deserve some credit.

Maybe Tretiak has a case for being a top 5 goalie of all-time, but I wouldn't put him on the Roy/Hasek level, although on a good day, he was as unbeatable as any goalie who has ever lived. And he did seem to have that psychological edge over many opponents. Not versus Phil Esposito or Bobby Hull, for example, though.


Totally agree with you VMBM. I'm actually preparing an in-depth analysis for the SIHR blog based on my findings and revised and enhanced statistics.

And, looking at all 3 goalies in the 1972 Summit Series, Tony Esposito tops essentially EVERY category I could find.

Now, an important first step when I prepared my revised statistics is that I closely reevaluated the shots-on-goal, and in doing so, I found MANY more against for Tony and Vladislav, at 20 and 17 respectively, but could only find 1 more against for Ken. Thus, in terms of revised shots, Tony faced 130 in 4 games, Dryden-118 in 4 games, and Tretiak-284 in 8 games. With this now in hand, we can look at in-depth '72 Series goalie stats like never before.

Overall, the Comparison Categories Results I've been able to document include:

1) the Best Goals Against Average of 3.25 was Tony'O, (Tretiak 3.88 and Dryden 4.75)

2) the Best revised Save Percentage of 90.000% was Tony'O, (Tretiak 89.085% and Dryden 83.898%)

3) the Most Consecutive Saves between Goals - 28 in Gm 5 was also Tony'O, (Tretiak had 22 in Gm 1, and Dryden just 11 in Gm 1, 4 & 6)

4) the Best Outstanding Save Results - 14 in 4 games for Tony'O or 10.8% of the shots he faced (22 in 8 games for Tretiak or 7.7%, and 8 for Dryden in 4 games, or 6.8% of the shots he faced)

5) Most Periods Not Scored Upon - 6 out of 12 periods was Tony'O, or 50% (Tretiak as 7 out of 24 periods or 29% and Dryden was 3 out of 12, or 25%)

6) Tony Esposito also has the Best Even Strength Save % at 92.381% (Tretiak 88.382% and Dryden 86.517%) while Vladislav dominates the Power Play and Shorthanded results, which are both spectacular at 93.103% and 92.857% respectively (Tony's are PP: 84.211% and SH: 66.667%, and Ken PP: 76.923% and SH: 66.667%)


In terms of other Miscellaneous Stats,
In his 8 games, Tretiak faced 16 Breakaways/1-on-one's, 18 (2-or-3-on-ones/2-on-none's), 2 goals scored against on Deflected Team Canada goals, and had 3 goals scored against on Deflected Own Goals (one off Shadrin's foot in Gm 1, one off Vasiliev in Gm 4, and the last caused by Lutchenko on Canada's 1st goal in Gm 8).

In his 4 games, T Esposito faced 9 Breakaways/1-on-one's, 6 (2-or-3-on-ones/2-on-none's) and had 4 goals scored against on Deflected USSR Goals, and 1 goal scored against on Deflected Own Goals (off Bergman in Gm 7).

In his 4 games, Dryden faced just 5 Breakaways/1-on-one's, 9 (2-or-3-on-ones/2-on-none's) and had 3 goals scored against on Deflected USSR Goals, and 2 goals scored against on Deflected Own Goals (one off Bergman in Gm 6, and the other off White's knee in Gm 8).

It is interesting to note that only 5 of the 31 goals, or 16.1% scored against Tretiak were deflected/own goals. And, that number is 5 of the 19, or 26.3% for Dryden. However, that number is 5 of 13 goals against for Tony Esposito, or 38.5%, thus showing that he was beaten much less often by goals above and beyond those hard-to-stop opportunities.


I did one final analysis to take into account the fact that every player is bound to have a bad game/period or have bad luck. So, I recalculated the results after removing the WORST period for T Esposito and Dryden, and the worst two for Tretiak as he played twice as many games. The end result was that Tony Esposito's performance improved even MORE than the other two. Taking out the 3rd Period of Gm 5, his revised Save % rose substantially to 93.103% from 90.000%

Yet, the effect on Tretiak by taking out the 3rd Period of Gm 2 and the 2nd Period of Gm 6 resulted in his Save % rising only to 90.458% from 89.085%. That is almost the same as the effect on Dryden's results, which go up to 85.321% from 83.898% once you remove the 2nd Period of Gm 8.


One final consideration is that Dryden had a fair bit of international hockey experience, perhaps the MOST around that time of any Canadian goalie outside of Wayne Stephenson during his time with the Canadian National Team. And, he had faced the Soviet National Team before, as well as a Soviet club team during Aug/Sep1969 during the Sovetsky Sport Tournament, as well as other European teams such as Sweden during the 1969 WHC's, and likely Finland and Switzerland as well. In fact, no one SHOULD have been more prepared to meet the Soviets in the '72 Series than him.

Meanwhile, despite Tretiak's young age, he had already played internationally with the Soviet Junior National Team, in the WHC's, Izvestia and the 1972 Olympics, and faced several different Canadian club and National teams, all BEFORE the age of 20.

In comparison, Tony Esposito had NEVER seen or played against the Russians, or had any international hockey experience whatsoever.


So, even though he wasn't in the eighth and deciding game, without the superlative play of Tony Esposito there may not have been an eighth game of any consequence for Ken Dryden to have played in and win, as his stats especially in the first two games in Canada are underwhelming to say the least!

Thus, in the final summation by almost every measure Tony Esposito's performance in the 1972 Summit Series exceeds all others by a pretty significant margin, AND a very, very strong argument can be made that Tony Esposito, who is in many ways the forgotten netminder in the 1972 Series, was actually the very BEST goaltender of the three. And, perhaps with this analysis many others can learn about just how well Tony'O did play, and this will hopefully allow him to begin to be properly recognized for what is clearly one of the finest performances of his long and distinguished career!


Richard J. Bendell

Author; 1972 – THE SUMMIT SERIES: Canada vs. USSR, Stats, Lies & Videotape, The UNTOLD Story of Hockey's Series of the Century
Email: [email protected] | Facebook: www.facebook.com/72series | Twitter: www.twitter.com/72seriesbendell
 
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space1999

Registered User
Jul 11, 2012
20
2
Now, that doesn't mean I don't consider Tretiak to be anything less than a great goalie just based on the '72 Series (where he was terrific), because personally I do.

Indeed, I rank him in my TOP 10 of All-time, and think he was getting even better and better later in his career. Who knows how he would have ended up if he had played to age 35 or 40? I have my doubts that Canada would have won in the 1984 and 1987 Canada Cup tournaments.

In fact, a turning point for Tretiak was in 1981 when he broke his ankle. Upon his return after he healed and had a rest, he started playing perhaps the best of his career. That helped the team officials realize they needed to cut back on his workload, especially in meaningless games. The end result was his record was nothing short of remarkable in the '81 Canada Cup, World Hockey Championships, Super Series and the 1984 Olympics. And, it's no coincidence that the decline in the Soviet National Team fortunes from near complete dominance to almost mortal happened right after his retirement.

I've rarely seen a goalie play better than how Tretiak did in most of the '72 Series, the '76 Super Series games versus Montreal and Boston, in the 1981 Canada Cup Final, Super Series '83 against Montreal and Quebec, and the 1984 Olympics. He wasn't always perfect, but when the games were at their biggest and most important and the spotlight was on him, he came through far more often than not!


Richard J. Bendell

Author; 1972 – THE SUMMIT SERIES: Canada vs. USSR, Stats, Lies & Videotape, The UNTOLD Story of Hockey's Series of the Century
Email: [email protected] | Facebook: www.facebook.com/72series | Twitter: www.twitter.com/72seriesbendell
 
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DaveG

Noted Jerk
Apr 7, 2003
52,254
52,291
Winston-Salem NC
I had him 10th in the goalies project a while back but the answer I give probably depends on when you ask me. I could have him anywhere from 5th to 10th depending on the mood I'm in, that's how tight that tier is to me.

FWIW that's in the tier below where I have Hasek, Roy, Sawchuk, and Plante
 

VMBM

Hansel?!
Sep 24, 2008
3,899
801
Helsinki, Finland
I have my doubts that Canada would have won in the 1984 and 1987 Canada Cup tournaments.

Well, Myshkin was pretty terrific in the 1984 tournament, and - against aaalll ooodds!!! - Team Canada did play a great semifinal game vs. the Soviets, but it's true that Myshkin never had the 'intimidation factor' à la Tretiak. So the game could have easily turned into USSR's favour with Tretiak.

(BTW, so glad that the 1984 CC DVD is coming out: http://www.amazon.ca/Canada-Cup-1984-John-Tonelli/dp/B00N31E180/ref=sr_1_2?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1414438142&sr=1-2&keywords=canada+cup)

The 1987 CC final was so close that it's not hard to imagine USSR winning with Tretiak in goal. Mylnikov was really frustrating; some great saves were followed by absolute clunkers, both in game 1 and 3 of the final. Based on the first two games, I would have put Belosheikin in goal for game 3. And it's not like Grant Fuhr didn't let in any softies (e.g. the Kamensky goal in the 1st final!), but this was one of the occasions when Canada definitely had the advantage in the nets.

In fact, a turning point for Tretiak was in 1981 when he broke his ankle. Upon his return after he healed and had a rest, he started playing perhaps the best of his career. That helped the team officials realize they needed to cut back on his workload, especially in meaningless games. The end result was his record was nothing short of remarkable in the '81 Canada Cup, World Hockey Championships, Super Series and the 1984 Olympics. And, it's no coincidence that the decline in the Soviet National Team fortunes from near complete dominance to almost mortal happened right after his retirement.

It was arguably one of the reasons, though maybe not quite the reason. I think the Soviets also never quite had the depth of the late '70s/early '80s anymore. You could see it in the 1987 Rendez-Vous and in the 1987 Canada Cup final; basically 2 forward lines/units were responsible for Team USSR's scoring (the Green Unit & Kamensky-Bykov-Khomutov)

I would agree that after the humiliation in Lake Placid, Tretiak played some of his greatest tournaments/series ever (1981 CC, 1982-83 SS, 1983 WHC, 1984 OG), where he often looked unbeatable, though he had some weaker tournaments too (1982 WHC). But the Soviets had extremely strong teams (overall) during those years.

I've rarely seen a goalie play better than how Tretiak did in most of the '72 Series, the '76 Super Series games versus Montreal and Boston, in the 1981 Canada Cup Final, Super Series '83 against Montreal and Quebec, and the 1984 Olympics. He wasn't always perfect, but when the games were at their biggest and most important and the spotlight was on him, he came through far more often than not!

Yep, that's why he is a legend worldwide and Jiri Holecek is not - not in North America anyway. No matter how terrific Holecek was in the World Championships vs. USSR and vs. other teams, he does not have that legendary performance in a best-on-best tournament/series.

The Canadians 'fell in love' with Tretiak already in 1972, and that never really changed, although he played some absolutely terrible games against NHL opposition too (especially the 2nd game of the '79 Challenge Cup and vs. the Sabres in the 1979-80 Super Series). The good definitely outweighs the bad.
 
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space1999

Registered User
Jul 11, 2012
20
2


Thanks for sharing this VMBM! That is very good news and I hope the picture for this DVD of the 1984 CC games sets a new standard for quality.

While I really do appreciate that the sets for the 1976 and 1987 Canada Cups were officially released, the quality of both can only be described as; underwhelming. Despite any comments to the contrary in the DVD's, to my eyes they showed no real evidence of having been cleaned up and/or remastered at all.

With the right equipment and skilled operators, they do have the ability to get the very best resolution, stability, colour and light level consistency even out of old VHS tapes, and also clean up damage and excess grain. Yes, that does take some money, but it would be nice if preserving hockey history at its best was an objective too.

Hopefully we'll finally get the full set for the 1991 Canada Cup, not just the hi-lites, and even the 1981 Canada Cup as well. Regardless of the embarrassing finale, there were some really great moments even in that tournament too!

Richard J. Bendell

Author; 1972 – THE SUMMIT SERIES: Canada vs. USSR, Stats, Lies & Videotape, The UNTOLD Story of Hockey's Series of the Century
Email: [email protected] | Facebook: www.facebook.com/72series | Twitter: www.twitter.com/72seriesbendell
 
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