Is Tretiak up with Roy and Hasek as top three, or is he in the next tier?
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BraveCanadian
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Cursed Lemon
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BraveCanadian
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That's why I'm asking!
I'm guessing most people will say no.. but since we can't compare apples to apples statistically or anything like that.. it is really inconclusive.
Moose Head
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Personally, I think if he had come into the NHL in the early 70's on a good team, he would have been Hasek dominate. But, alas that's just my opinion, and we'll never know. Just too difficult to compare international hockey of that era with NHL hockey and how well skills would translate to the NHL game.
Sentinel
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He has completely outplayed Dryden, Esposito, and Liut, just for reference. To me he is 2-3 with Roy. Five times MVP on a powerhouse of a team is nothing to scoff at.
TheDevilMadeMe
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Pominville Knows
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Thenameless
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I feel that if Tretiak had had a full career in the NHL, he would have been one of the top two goalies in any era. He would have racked up Vezina's or come a close second in other years, unless he was injured.
I don't know if he could have peaked at the multiple Hart level like Hasek did though. That might depend on the era he was playing in. I'd definitely be happy to have him on my team - even with all of the other HHoF goalies available.
I don't know if he could have peaked at the multiple Hart level like Hasek did though. That might depend on the era he was playing in. I'd definitely be happy to have him on my team - even with all of the other HHoF goalies available.
Moose Head
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Is the difference that Hasek managed to "Hasek dominate" on a lesser team then?
I considered buffalo, for the most part, to be a good team during that era.
Boreal01
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No Brodeur ?
I know none of us saw him play, but George Hainsworth in consideration, or just such limited games ?
I know none of us saw him play, but George Hainsworth in consideration, or just such limited games ?
His stats are a mirage. You have to look at his stats with context or else you'll be like "0.92 GAA, 22 SO! GOAT season!".
Killion
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We'll just never know. But no, as it stands without direct NHL comparisons statistically & otherwise its not fair to Tretiak nor to those who he'd displace as Top 3-5-10 or whatever. Huge difference between Tournament play & the level/kind of play professionally in North America; between the NHL & the Soviet Elite League. All one can do is speculate.
TheDevilMadeMe
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Of course, Brodeur. Glenn Hall too.
Hainsworth isn't really considered because ccontemporaries thought Roy Worters was better, and Georges Vezina and Charlie Gardiner from surrounding years were thought of more highly than both of them
TheDevilMadeMe
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When I read your first sentence, I thought you were talking about Tretiak!
VMBM
Hansel?!
And he didn't "totally outplay" Esposito in 1972, at least; if you take Tretiak's 4 best games and compare them with Esposito's 4 games in the series, okay, he was definitely better, but if you take his 4 worst games, then Esposito was a little better.
He outplayed Dryden about 4 times in the 7 games (I think?) that they played against each other over the years.
Considering that Tretiak played on team(s) that were basically always favourites to beat their opponents, his numbers (GAA etc) aren't really very mindblowing. On the other hand, his Soviet MVP finishes deserve some credit.
Maybe Tretiak has a case for being a top 5 goalie of all-time, but I wouldn't put him on the Roy/Hasek level, although on a good day, he was as unbeatable as any goalie who has ever lived. And he did seem to have that psychological edge over many opponents. Not versus Phil Esposito or Bobby Hull, for example, though.
I don't even think IMO Tretiak is a top 5 goalie...... He really never had to face the best players in the world on a consistent basis, while Hasek, Roy, Brodeur etc had to...
The Soviets could certainly compete, however they're almost like the Harlem Globetrotters to an extent.
The Soviets were basically an all star team playing amateurs for the most part. I know many will disagree, however this is my position.
Thenameless
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I can understand your position. He hadn't proven himself in the pressure cooker of the NHL. But I'm still interested to know where you'd slot him. Top 10? Top 20?
I can't really rank players but if I did I would put Tretiak in the bottom 5 of the top 10 goaltenders, however even then I wouldn't feel comfortable.
I would rather choose tiers and Tretiak would be in a second 'tier', he wouldn't make my list of top goalies of all time.
Thenameless
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Two of my favourite basketball teams once squared off many moons ago. The Harlem Globetrotters vs. the Minneapolis Lakers. The Lakers had the best player in the world at the time - George Mikan. The Globetrotters won.
I know it's a small sample size, but it's also more than just fun anecdotal stuff. The Lakers and the Globetrotters both really wanted to win this one, and the Lakers had more to lose.
Similarly, the NHL had more to lose when facing the Soviets. Tretiak was a big reason that Canada had trouble with the Soviets. And as noted above, he was outstanding in his home league too - even it may have not been quite the NHL.
He actually makes my top 5. Where? I'm not sure myself.
I know it's a small sample size, but it's also more than just fun anecdotal stuff. The Lakers and the Globetrotters both really wanted to win this one, and the Lakers had more to lose.
Similarly, the NHL had more to lose when facing the Soviets. Tretiak was a big reason that Canada had trouble with the Soviets. And as noted above, he was outstanding in his home league too - even it may have not been quite the NHL.
He actually makes my top 5. Where? I'm not sure myself.
