Is Thomas Harley still a thing? | Update: he is THE thing

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The D market is ass this year. The only two guys that fit the bill of what the stars need/are good are Orlov and Gavrikov, and they’re both left handed. Unless they have some sort of belief in Dumba turning his game around, there’s nothing that would fit.
It's bad in regards to what it had been in other years but there's a lot of guys who would be improvements over Suter, Miller and Hakanpaa.
For example Severson

But why even put yourself in that position to where you have to have that conversation with him and hope he doesn't cause a problem in the room by being that healthy scratch. Doesn't he already have a reputation for not being happy when things don't go his way from his time in Minnesota? Buy him out and split up the kids with the vets to help them transition.

Beyond that how long do you think his leash would be? DeBoer would give him every opportunity to figure it out and I'd rather not waste half a season or more before reality finally slaps the coaching staff in the face and they'll play Nils. He's not going to improve if he's not playing and the staff doesn't like him already. Nill has to take away the binkie or SSDD is going to apply over and over again.
Not just Minnesota, Nashville too. He's got a reputation of being a bit of a bitch everywhere he goes
 
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Best case scenario is we win the Cup and Suter decides to retire.
 
Here's the cliffs notes on Harley-

Coming off his draft Jim Montgomery wanted to put him in the opening night roster and play immediately as an 18 year old. He was told no from above.

Then Rick Bowness takes over and he's not feeling Harley's game. Limited games, bouncing up and down, limited ice time.

Meanwhile Jim NIll decided a freshly bought-out Ryan Suter was what this team needed.

The org. decided to do a full reset on Harley's development in the same way they did for Ty Dellandrea when it was clear he was overexposed at the NHL level. Go down to the AHL and play for that team. Don't play for callups because they're not happening.

Harley has responded by being a very good 21 year old AHL player, as he should be.

Now here's the problem: the barely functioning husk of what was formerly Ryan Suter is signed for 2.... more.... long.... seasons.

On the left side the Stars have Heiskanen, Lindell (core pieces), and Suter. So where does Harley play? Your guess is as good as mine.
The Stars are simply not going to let Harley rot in the minors for another 2 years. Not happening.
 
The Stars are simply not going to let Harley rot in the minors for another 2 years. Not happening.
The same team(management) that went into last year with the plan of keeping the #1 goalie, from the previous season, rot in the AHL? They wouldn't do that huh?
 
Unless Nashville was an aberration and Harley plays terribly down the stretch he's going to make this lineup next season. I do however worry about Nils. He's already asked out of one bad situation where he wasn't playing. If he's not basically told the job's yours this off-season, especially after seeing Harley jump him, he's going to demand out of here too.

Let's not waste our 1st round pick because DeBoer's got a veteran preference for Miller and Suter over the more gifted player that probably just needs minutes and the opportunity to make mistakes and learn without fear of being yanked from the lineup for the slightest bad play.
 
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The job long term is his, and I'd assume if someone came along better then he'd get an opportunity elsewhere, of which there are some. Miller and Hakanpaa won't both be back after next year and there are no RHD in our system ready to usurp that position from him.

The problem in NY was that the long term role there for him wasn't there. He should be more than happy to play 75% of the season here rather than 0% of the season in NY. Especially knowing that there is one guy who doesn't fill the same role on the roster ahead of him on the RHD depth chart.

Plus... I don't think trying to shore up the 2nd unit is worth turning Lundkvist into Honka right now.

Remember, they're still 21 and 22 y/o. They aren't Miro, who came in to the league absolutely swinging and had so much pedigree to live up to. Harley didn't look ready last year, this year we'll see.

This year they're going for it and if the 30 year old D men are more reliable and aren't detracting from our absolutely stupid level of offense, then whatever, go to the hole and come back next year with a young future on the roster. They're made the playoffs so now its time to give Harley, who was not on the NHL roster all season his audition for next year.

So...

Relax, holy crap.
 
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You actually think Harley is going to be playing in the AHL for the next 2 years??
No, because he'll require waivers in 24-25. Next year though, yeah It's a very real possibility with Nill at the helm. He has a history of letting waiver status dictate the roster. Given that Harley isn't eligible for waivers until 24-25 (or 120 more games) it means that if anyone is going to be the odd man out next year, it'll be him.
Will it 100% for sure happen? Who knows, they remained relatively injury free this year on the blue line and that could happen again next year, though I wouldn't expect it to.
 
No, because he'll require waivers in 24-25. Next year though, yeah It's a very real possibility with Nill at the helm. He has a history of letting waiver status dictate the roster. Given that Harley isn't eligible for waivers until 24-25 (or 120 more games) it means that if anyone is going to be the odd man out next year, it'll be him.
Will it 100% for sure happen? Who knows, they remained relatively injury free this year on the blue line and that could happen again next year, though I wouldn't expect it to.
All I can do is lol to this. What do you think is actually going on when he's brought up now and they have a healthy Nils and Hanley sitting on the bench? He's going to be playing in the playoffs.
 
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All I can do is lol to this. What do you think is actually going on when he's brought up now and they have a healthy Nils and Hanley sitting on the bench? He's going to be playing in the playoffs.
that's a pretty bold prediction considering there are only 5 regular season games to prove that he really does belong in the bigs now.
not even considering the impact if it keeps miro on his off side as someone above mentioned.
 
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that's a pretty bold prediction considering there are only 5 regular season games to prove that he really does belong in the bigs now.
not even considering the impact if it keeps miro on his off side as someone above mentioned.
It's essentially his job to lose. We already know the coaching staff doesn't want to play the other two options.
 
oh, i'm here for it. just seems somewhat unlikely to go with a guy that hasn't been with the team for the first 75 games.
I think the timing of this shows how serious they are. They desperately wants the first place spot. It's why they've been riding Oettinger so hard. This isn't a late season call up to give a guy some experience. They want to win these games and want to see if he's an upgrade over the two options they don't like.
 
I think the timing of this shows how serious they are. They desperately wants the first place spot. It's why they've been riding Oettinger so hard. This isn't a late season call up to give a guy some experience. They want to win these games and want to see if he's an upgrade over the two options they don't like.

All good points. Someone mentioned it above, but I imagine Nill also expected Harley to have had a chance by now. We've been remarkably healthy on defense and that chance never materialized. Now Nill is forcing that to happen, and rightly so.
 
All good points. Someone mentioned it above, but I imagine Nill also expected Harley to have had a chance by now. We've been remarkably healthy on defense and that chance never materialized. Now Nill is forcing that to happen, and rightly so.
He "expected him to have a chance by now", but didn't call him up when Miro was injured earlier in the year, so his grand plan was "we'll wait until 2 defensemen are injured at the same time" and then "I can't believe this hasn't happened yet. and I'm not going to just call him up to have 2 defensemen be healthy scratched.. because bad asset management or some such" but 6 games from the end of the year is the magic "well if these assholes won't get injured, we'll just finally call him up and have 2 healthy scratched d-men after all"? And you believe that?

He intentionally built a roster with no open 3rd pairing LD option, used a garbage 7th d-man like Hanley who wouldn't get claimed off waivers, but then is so taken back that he had to "force" Harley into the lineup finally 6 games before the end of the year? He couldn't waive their #7 (in this context Hanley, not the Deboer it is Lundkqvist context) to give him some games already? Or better yet, just not have a 13th forward during a homestand and have to waive nobody? That is too much for Nill to do for the first 70 games of the season? because his grand plan was.... two injuries on the blue line at the same time?
 
He "expected him to have a chance by now", but didn't call him up when Miro was injured earlier in the year, so his grand plan was "we'll wait until 2 defensemen are injured at the same time" and then "I can't believe this hasn't happened yet. and I'm not going to just call him up to have 2 defensemen be healthy scratched.. because bad asset management or some such" but 6 games from the end of the year is the magic "well if these assholes won't get injured, we'll just finally call him up and have 2 healthy scratched d-men after all"? And you believe that?

He intentionally built a roster with no open 3rd pairing LD option, used a garbage 7th d-man like Hanley who wouldn't get claimed off waivers, but then is so taken back that he had to "force" Harley into the lineup finally 6 games before the end of the year? He couldn't waive their #7 (in this context Hanley, not the Deboer it is Lundkqvist context) to give him some games already? Or better yet, just not have a 13th forward during a homestand and have to waive nobody? That is too much for Nill to do for the first 70 games of the season? because his grand plan was.... two injuries on the blue line at the same time?
Miro missed three games the first month of the season. It’s not like he was out a long time on IR. He was day to day for a few days.

And why would Nill build a roster with an open spot for Harley? It’s not like Harley was some sure thing to be NHL ready this season.
 
Miro missed three games the first month of the season. It’s not like he was out a long time on IR. He was day to day for a few days.

And why would Nill build a roster with an open spot for Harley? It’s not like Harley was some sure thing to be NHL ready this season.
Right, that's the point. He had the opportunity to call him up for Miro's injury, and didn't.
But he really really wanted to get Harley playing time in the NHL.
Just, you know not when he had an opportunity to do it.

as for your second, you're missing the point.
It's not that he didn't leave the 3rd pairing LD spot "open"
it's that he went out and blocked it long term (by signing a bad player to a 4yr deal) but we're supposed to believe he was really hoping to get Harley NHL time this season for some games.
He had no plans of Harley being in the NHL (like Oettinger last year) for at least 2 more years coming into the season
 
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Right, that's the point. He had the opportunity to call him up for Miro's injury, and didn't.
But he really really wanted to get Harley playing time in the NHL.
Just, you know not when he had an opportunity to do it.

as for your second, you're missing the point.
It's not that he didn't leave the 3rd pairing LD spot "open"
it's that he went out and blocked it long term (by signing a bad player to a 4yr deal) but we're supposed to believe he was really hoping to get Harley NHL time this season for some games.
He had no plans of Harley being in the NHL (like Oettinger last year) for at least 2 more years coming into the season
Okay, I looked it up. The first game Miro missed was the second night of a road back to back. Miro woke up too sore to play, and the Stars couldn‘t have gotten Harley to Boston in time for the game. After that, Miro was a game time decision where he missed two more. That three game stretch represents the sum total of Stars d injuries. This is not a good reason to be mad at Nill. He never had a real chance to call Harley up for injury reasons.

And I think you‘re entirely misrepresenting the Oettinger thing. Nill absolutely wanted Oettinger on the team last season. We know this because he made the necessary moves to get Oettinger on the team early on last season.
 
Okay, I looked it up. The first game Miro missed was the second night of a road back to back. Miro woke up too sore to play, and the Stars couldn‘t have gotten Harley to Boston in time for the game. After that, Miro was a game time decision where he missed two more. That three game stretch represents the sum total of Stars d injuries. This is not a good reason to be mad at Nill. He never had a real chance to call Harley up for injury reasons.

And I think you‘re entirely misrepresenting the Oettinger thing. Nill absolutely wanted Oettinger on the team last season. We know this because he made the necessary moves to get Oettinger on the team early on last season.
If you say so and want to believe it sure go ahead, but they can still call up a player to replace a "game time" decision. He chose not to.

He didn't want Oettinger in the NHL last year, evidence by the fact that he literally sent him to the f***ing AHL. Dude wasn't some paper cap manipulation move for a day or two. He literally didn't come back until mid November, long after Khudobin had proven, yet again, that he sucked, and they were left with no choice. Literally took the team having a losing record and Khudobin having a sub 900 save %.

I'm not mad at NIll for leaving Harley to play in the AHL. I'm sick of the stupid amount of mental gymnastics people are doing to defend every one of Nill's stupid ass decisions.

"He really wanted him(harley) here, but the world transpired against him. So he finally had to force it..."
He waited until long after the trade deadline, to check and see if a guy they had in the AHL might be helpful to a team bound for the playoffs, a team with glaring issues on the d-core.
"Nill absolutely wanted Oettinger on the team last season. We know this because he made the necessary moves to get Oettinger on the team."
A month and a half into the season Nill finally decided to waive the garbage goalie, he decided was a better NHL option, a move he could and should have f***ing done from day 1, but chose not to do. But he "absolutely wanted him in the NHL". He just made sure Khudobin got to shit the bed for a month and a half first to test his (Oettinger) character.

He then pissed away good assets for a defenseman with attitude issues, that's now eating Healthy scratches to Joel Hanley. Defended relatively recently as a "genius" move and could be a "trend setter".
To be fair, I don't have any issues with Lundkqvist as a player.

It's one thing to think things Nill does are good. but this whole jumping through ridiculous hoops to make everything he does seem like some great well thought out plan is assinine.


If he wanted Oettinger in the NHL last year, he isn't in the AHL until November 15, If he wanted Harley getting NHL minutes this year, he doesn't wait until 6 games left in the year to "force the issue". He didn't want either of them on the roster. His hand was forced.
Nils can't beat f***ing Joel Hanley for a spot in the lineup and Hanley was starting to do Suter impressions.
And i have no doubt in my mind that the plan for next year is the run back the exact same 6 defensemen they entered this year with. Considering all of them would have to pass through waivers except Harley.
And as we saw last year (and several times through the Nill years), he will absolutely burry an NHL caliber player who's waiver exempt for a worse player, until he literally has no other option.
And he is loyal to all his signings to a fault, so he won't even make moves to get out of mistakes.
I'm not a betting man, but i would literally bet my entire company, house, and bank account that he doesn't buyout Suter.
 
Nill wanted to trade Khudobin but wasn‘t able to because it turned out no one wanted him. It’s why Oettinger missed the first 13 games of the season. 13. That’s it. You’re greatly overblowing 13 games. Nill couldn’t find a taker for Dobby, so he sent him down and got Oettinger back up. It wasn’t a change of plan to get Oettinger back up. That was the plan all along. Had another GM still had warm feelings about Dobby’s bubble run, Oettinger would have been up sooner.
 
:huh: Talk about revisionist history.

Coming from someone with a user title "Jim Nill Sucks", despite the team having arguably its best roster in over a decade and having what is probably the brightest future this franchise has ever seen

If you want to nitpick every little detail, go ahead. You cannot forget to acknowledge the many successes Nill has had too. You don't get to say he lucked into the good and is responsible for the bad.
 

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