Is this shady or normal for hockey parents?

[jetsmooseice]

Some of these parent stories are wild. Maybe I've just been lucky but I've never seen stuff like that.

My kid plays in the upper tiers, but not the top tier. So maybe that has something to do with it, it's likely that most of us realize our kids are not going pro. The parents have all been pretty chill, laid back, fun people there for the right reasons. The only time I ever see anyone get worked up is when there are imbalances in penalty calls, and even that has been pretty tame. Spring hockey has some more intense parents, but at the same time I can appreciate why they might be that way given the prices they're paying... for that kind of money I can't really blame someone for having a stopwatch out even if it's not something I'd do myself.

Granted, my kid is starting U13 this fall so I'll see if that takes the intensity up a notch, haha.

 

[lawrence]

The parents signed commitment contracts with Team A and broke them.

They always intended to go to Team B, so they should have done it the non-shady way and just left.

It’s been pretty clear by now what they did was underhanded.

Signing a contract is your word, and shows if you are a stand up individual or not.

Trying to defend your actions by saying “we did what’s best for our kid” while breaking your word and screwing over 15 other 13 year olds who have made good on their commitments, is definitely shady.

I didnt know he already “signed with team A”

If this is the case than bad on the parent for backing out of team A. I dont find this shady, that’s being quite modest, it’s being unreliable and not a trust worthy person.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Granted, my kid is starting U13 this fall so I'll see if that takes the intensity up a notch, haha.

So it does definitely go up another notch when you hit U13, and then U15 even more so. It also goes up when you start hitting AA/AAA (which again - starts at U13/U15).

Some of my worst anecdotes though are from U11.

I didnt know he already “signed with team A”

If this is the case than bad on the parent for backing out of team A. I dont find this shady, that’s being quite modest, it’s being unreliable and not a trust worthy person.

I would have thought "being unreliable and not a trust worthy person" was almost the definition of "shady", but maybe we're just splitting hairs here.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Those AAA circus years before the "draft" are nuts, I imagine even more so for you all in Western Canada since the WHL drafts a year early for whatever reason. Funny how much people put into that. Like making the WHL or the OHL is the pinnacle of everything or whatever.. when you step back in the grand scheme of things in a person's life, it's an accomplishment to play at such a high level, sure, but it's not a mecca.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Those AAA circus years before the "draft" are nuts, I imagine even more so for you all in Western Canada since the WHL drafts a year early for whatever reason. Funny how much people put into that. Like making the WHL or the OHL is the pinnacle of everything or whatever.. when you step back in the grand scheme of things in a person's life, it's an accomplishment to play at such a high level, sure, but it's not a mecca.

Yeah so theoretically my kid is WHL draft-eligible in 2025. He wants to make AAA which again, theoretically, puts him in that mix to at least be looked at (if he makes it, which is not guaranteed).

We know a whole bunch of kids that are trying out for hockey academies this year, who haven't before - because hockey academies have a much better track record of being drafted. Which is great - but why exactly are you paying $30k or more for year of schooling in order to get drafted into a league whose only real benefit is to give you a scholarship to a Canadian university once you're done - one that will cost a lot less than $30k per year anyways?

But anyways - my kid this morning on the way to school was all excited about the WHL draft which goes tomorrow since he wants to know if any of the kids he knows might be drafted.

My wife's cousin though played in the WHL back 15 years ago or so. By all accounts he's an amazing hockey player - but these days he's just working oilfield work, nothing related to hockey whatsoever.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I didnt know he already “signed with team A”

If this is the case than bad on the parent for backing out of team A. I dont find this shady, that’s being quite modest, it’s being unreliable and not a trust worthy person.

I started the thread to see if this is normal behavior in other parts of NA, but apparently it’s shady everywhere.

The worst of it is my daughter’s old Pee Wee coach, let’s call him Tim, betrayed her and several of her teammates pretty badly.

After first year Pee Wee (last spring), six of Tim’s players (including my daughter) went out for Team A (a AA team).

Tim’s son didn’t make Team A, and he was livid.

Tim’s son then made Team B, and this season that org decided to dub themselves a AAA org (big ass joke).

Tim was out for revenge on Team A and was promising his old players on Team A guaranteed spots on Team B since he became their manager.

This garbage was going down in January when Tim was sending out emails trying to poach his old players on Team A.

When Team A had their tryouts, Tim’s kid was there and made their roster this time.

He and his wife signed a commitment contract knowing full well they were going back to Team B.

Tim was so shady he was even trying to poach new kids who made Team A, but they didn’t know him and blew him off.

The three kids he did poach were from his old Pee Wee team… kids and parents my daughter and wife got close to… so that’s how we know exactly what was going on and that these kids were like 90% leaving.

Team A had a couple really good players who wanted to join that could have replaced these kids, but the roster was full because these parents had signed commitment contracts .

Now Team A is going to have to play short handed, so Team A parents who know Tim and the kids who left are furious (rightfully so).

 

[Slats432]

Those AAA circus years before the "draft" are nuts, I imagine even more so for you all in Western Canada since the WHL drafts a year early for whatever reason. Funny how much people put into that. Like making the WHL or the OHL is the pinnacle of everything or whatever.. when you step back in the grand scheme of things in a person's life, it's an accomplishment to play at such a high level, sure, but it's not a mecca.

The reason that the WHL drafts a year early is to preemptively stop Junior A leagues from attracting kids to get them to try to go the NCAA route.

As for the pinnacle, my son played with/against at least 15-20 guys that were either drafted or played in the show. Just knowing you were in the elite stream is a great accomplishment.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Didnt want to start a new thread for this, but it is not exactly about shady parent behavior, but youth related. My daughter is not doing spring team this year. As a goalie, was thinking it was a waste as the practices for spring were her standing in net and takin shots and then games and a tournament (2 years ago), and 2 tournaments this year. Instead, she is doing some extra semi-private lessons and clinics. She was 100% on-board as she would much rather have a goalie lesson with a goalie coach than a regular practice. She has not been to our rink since the end of march when we had tryouts for the fall. I was down there once for about 10 minutes since to sign the contract. Ran into a parent of a kid on one of our other teams with whom I get along very well. His son is playing spring. I asked him how things are going. We spoke for about 1/2 hour. There are a lot of people not happy right now. They made some changes and it caused some people to leave and they tried to jack up tuition 30%. It was announced 2 hours before tryouts started. The next day it was lowered but still about a 15% increase. Of course there is a lot of "talk" about what is going on. All of this I knew.

But yesterday talking to this parent and he said every time he is down at the rink for practice, it is the same conversation among the parents. People discussing whether they are staying for NEXT year or leaving and where they might look. When I say NEXT year, I do not mean the 2024-25 season. I am talking about for the FALL OF 2025. Here, we dont have jurisdictions or territories, so our kids can play wherever they can make. There are restrictions about coaches switching organizations and taking his/her whole team, but there are ways around that and from what I understand rarely enforced. Here, all the orgs have tryouts on the same days. It is not uncommon for a player to go to team a on day 1, then team b on day 2, and then either team c on day 3 or back to team a or b. Some of the organizations have 4-5 teams at the 12U and 10U level. So, if I brought my daughter to one of those tryouts on day 1 and told them she played with our current team the past 3 years, they would probably try to get me to sign that night. Not because she is a star, but because the shear size of their organization, they would have a spot for her.

 

[Yukon Joe]

But yesterday talking to this parent and he said every time he is down at the rink for practice, it is the same conversation among the parents. People discussing whether they are staying for NEXT year or leaving and where they might look. When I say NEXT year, I do not mean the 2024-25 season. I am talking about for the FALL OF 2025. Here, we dont have jurisdictions or territories, so our kids can play wherever they can make. There are restrictions about coaches switching organizations and taking his/her whole team, but there are ways around that and from what I understand rarely enforced. Here, all the orgs have tryouts on the same days. It is not uncommon for a player to go to team a on day 1, then team b on day 2, and then either team c on day 3 or back to team a or b. Some of the organizations have 4-5 teams at the 12U and 10U level. So, if I brought my daughter to one of those tryouts on day 1 and told them she played with our current team the past 3 years, they would probably try to get me to sign that night. Not because she is a star, but because the shear size of their organization, they would have a spot for her.

So I trimmed the first part about goalie training / spring hockey. I'm not a goalie parent but I would agree with you. I'm lucky (an an assistant) that we've often had a coach who was a former goalie so they could get our goalies working on technique, and not just throwing pucks at them. Game experience is obviously valuable but you need more.

In my area (Edmonton) we have a lot of rules about jurisdictions, tiering, and having to ask for release do some times feel kind of ridiculous. But then you consider the alternatives and it doesn't feel quite so bad.

If team formation is just wide-open like that then I guess why wouldn't you try out for multiple teams? What's the reason not to?

 

[patnyrnyg]

So I trimmed the first part about goalie training / spring hockey. I'm not a goalie parent but I would agree with you. I'm lucky (an an assistant) that we've often had a coach who was a former goalie so they could get our goalies working on technique, and not just throwing pucks at them. Game experience is obviously valuable but you need more.

In my area (Edmonton) we have a lot of rules about jurisdictions, tiering, and having to ask for release do some times feel kind of ridiculous. But then you consider the alternatives and it doesn't feel quite so bad.

If team formation is just wide-open like that then I guess why wouldn't you try out for multiple teams? What's the reason not to?

Most people start at the closest place. But, we have a lot of teams in this area. I easily have 15 orgs within a 45 minute drive from my house. Probably about 8 within a half-hour depending on traffic. Most go with the path of learn-to-play--> house league---> travel at the close rink and then some movement as you get older for different reasons. HUGE drop-off in the number of teams from 12U to 14U. We have tier 1 and tier 2. Tier 1 being AAA, and everything else is tier 2. With tier 1, many kids will travel a lot. I know of at least 2 kids who live on Staten Island play for a team in Connecticut for a tier 1. For tier 2 (AA and below) kids will move around but for the most part the travel isn't that extreme. I dont like the idea of jurisdictions. If I am paying for my kid to play, I don't think I should be bound to one org.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Most people start at the closest place. But, we have a lot of teams in this area. I easily have 15 orgs within a 45 minute drive from my house. Probably about 8 within a half-hour depending on traffic. Most go with the path of learn-to-play--> house league---> travel at the close rink and then some movement as you get older for different reasons. HUGE drop-off in the number of teams from 12U to 14U. We have tier 1 and tier 2. Tier 1 being AAA, and everything else is tier 2. With tier 1, many kids will travel a lot. I know of at least 2 kids who live on Staten Island play for a team in Connecticut for a tier 1. For tier 2 (AA and below) kids will move around but for the most part the travel isn't that extreme. I dont like the idea of jurisdictions. If I am paying for my kid to play, I don't think I should be bound to one org.

The justification is competitive balance. Kids aren't going to grow and develop if games aren't balanced. I know in our area they have adjusted the boundaries several times to give one club that isn't doing very well more territory so they have a bigger pool of players to recruit from.

Now obviously some people feel as you do and as a result there is "unaffiliated" minor hockey. There you can pick whatever team you want to try out for. Problem is - competitive balance. If a team can get away with recruiting all the best players, they will. I looked at the main independent league and I just picked one division at random - and sure enough last year one team went 31-0-1, while another went 3-28-1. Plus all the travel. In affiliated hockey there was pretty decent balance.

But I'm certainly in no position to tell New York state and city how to organize their youth hockey, so if it works for you guys then great. It's not as if having hard boundaries doesn't cause problems - for example if a kid moves, even if only a short distance, but changes boundaries they may be forced to now register with a whole new club and give up all the friends he's made in the old club. Or at competitive levels if a kid is cut from their home club there can be a process to apply for release and try out for a different club - but there's all kinds of rooms for politics and gamesmanship.

 

[Slats432]

There has been discussions on and off about open borders in club hockey. The weaker clubs usually have initial interest when they think they could attract more players. Then they realize their best players might want to move and their thoughts change. I think that open borders help strong organizations but hurt competitive balance.

In Edmonton the draw zones are made based on player registrations and trying to make them equitable.

 

[patnyrnyg]

The justification is competitive balance. Kids aren't going to grow and develop if games aren't balanced. I know in our area they have adjusted the boundaries several times to give one club that isn't doing very well more territory so they have a bigger pool of players to recruit from.

Now obviously some people feel as you do and as a result there is "unaffiliated" minor hockey. There you can pick whatever team you want to try out for. Problem is - competitive balance. If a team can get away with recruiting all the best players, they will. I looked at the main independent league and I just picked one division at random - and sure enough last year one team went 31-0-1, while another went 3-28-1. Plus all the travel. In affiliated hockey there was pretty decent balance.

But I'm certainly in no position to tell New York state and city how to organize their youth hockey, so if it works for you guys then great. It's not as if having hard boundaries doesn't cause problems - for example if a kid moves, even if only a short distance, but changes boundaries they may be forced to now register with a whole new club and give up all the friends he's made in the old club. Or at competitive levels if a kid is cut from their home club there can be a process to apply for release and try out for a different club - but there's all kinds of rooms for politics and gamesmanship.

Competitive balance happens in the form of divisions. In tier 2, they have AA, A-National (high-A), A-American (Low-A), B-National (high-B) and B-American (low-b). Most of the organizations have multiple teams in each age group, so depending on the year may have a team in AA, A-American, B-National, etc. In 10U, some have a team in all 5 divisions and one often has 6 teams with 2 being in the B-American. Orgs will declare where they think their teams should play and then hold a pre-season. After pre-season, they will move teams up and down as needed. My daughters team started in one division in pre-season. Lost pre-season games 9-1, 12-1, 12-2, 7-3 and got moved down a division. Some teams jumped 2 divisions. Not perfect and you still get blowouts, but a team can't hold a family hostage due to arbitrarily designed boundaries. While I live in NY, our team plays in a New Jersey League. Trust me when I say, my organization would benefit GREATLY if there were geographical restrictions on where kids can play.

 

[Slats432]

Competitive balance happens in the form of divisions. In tier 2, they have AA, A-National (high-A), A-American (Low-A), B-National (high-B) and B-American (low-b). Most of the organizations have multiple teams in each age group, so depending on the year may have a team in AA, A-American, B-National, etc. Some have a team in all 5 divisions and one often has 6 teams with 2 being in the B-American. Orgs will declare where they think their teams should play and then hold a pre-season. After pre-season, they will move teams up and down as needed. My daughters team started in one division in pre-season. Lost pre-season games 9-1, 12-1, 12-2, 7-3 and got moved down a division. Some teams jumped 2 divisions. Not perfect and you still get blowouts, but a team can't hold a family hostage due to arbitrarily designed boundaries. While I live in NY, our team plays in a New Jersey League.

That is what happens in Federation (non elite) hockey in Alberta. It starts at AAA then AA then Federation Tiers 1 through 8 are fairly normal. They do retiering through two sets of games and then the divisions are set, usually after about 12 games.

Player movement at club is restricted to home club (Based on geography zones), then if released a 2nd tryout within the city. (And in some cases outside the city with rural teams. Edmonton proper has 4 clubs but there are 5-7 rural clubs in suburb towns around the city.)

If you are released from your 2nd tryout at club you have to report to your Federation organization, either in city or rural to play Federation hockey.

It isn't perfect but I believe it is pretty good.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Competitive balance happens in the form of divisions. In tier 2, they have AA, A-National (high-A), A-American (Low-A), B-National (high-B) and B-American (low-b). Most of the organizations have multiple teams in each age group, so depending on the year may have a team in AA, A-American, B-National, etc. In 10U, some have a team in all 5 divisions and one often has 6 teams with 2 being in the B-American. Orgs will declare where they think their teams should play and then hold a pre-season. After pre-season, they will move teams up and down as needed. My daughters team started in one division in pre-season. Lost pre-season games 9-1, 12-1, 12-2, 7-3 and got moved down a division. Some teams jumped 2 divisions. Not perfect and you still get blowouts, but a team can't hold a family hostage due to arbitrarily designed boundaries. While I live in NY, our team plays in a New Jersey League. Trust me when I say, my organization would benefit GREATLY if there were geographical restrictions on where kids can play.

But with geographic boundaries we do that as well. Let's take U13 - next year there will be a AAA and AA club divisions, then in federations they'll have tiers 1 through 6. Teams are formed after evaluations , but they have a series of tiering games where teams can be moved up and down. Then even within a given tier they have sub-tiers - so last year my kids team was Tier 3 green C - with a total of 9 sub-tiers within Tier 3 itself. So that's 8 formal levels, and I don't even know how many informal levels within that.

Nothing will ever be perfect and you can still get blowouts - it's kids hockey. All it takes is one or two kids to have a really good, or really bad day and your entire team can change - plus kids can really, really be swayed by emotion. But nobody was going 30-0-1.

 

[patnyrnyg]

That is what happens in Federation (non elite) hockey in Alberta. It starts at AAA then AA then Federation Tiers 1 through 8 are fairly normal. They do retiering through two sets of games and then the divisions are set, usually after about 12 games.

Player movement at club is restricted to home club (Based on geography zones), then if released a 2nd tryout within the city. (And in some cases outside the city with rural teams. Edmonton proper has 4 clubs but there are 5-7 rural clubs in suburb towns around the city.)

If you are released from your 2nd tryout at club you have to report to your Federation organization, either in city or rural to play Federation hockey.

It isn't perfect but I believe it is pretty good.

Here, the elite is referred to as tier 1 or AAA. To become tier 1, organizations have to apply through the district (ours is AAHA) and from what I understand can take a few years to get approved. Often, a new tier 1 team will get approval at say 10U to start and then in subsequent years get approved at older ages. Some, only have teams at 14U or 16U and above. Tier 1 is a separate league from tier 2, so if a team is getting crushed early in tier 1, they can't just drop down to tier 2. There is a team not far from me that has a reputation of collecting the letter-chasers. Kids who are not AAA players, but want to play AAA will play there. In tier 1, no restrictions. But yes, it is why orgs like Mid Fairfield Rangers often have teams that are amongst the best in the country in multiple age groups. Kids will travel 2+ hours each way for practice. My organization does not have a tier 1 team and neither do most of the teams in our league. In some cases, a rink will host a tier 2 organization and a tier 1 that uses a different name. Not sure if they are actually affiliated or totally separate. Also have some rinks that will be the home rink for two tier-2 organizations.

 

[WarriorofTime]

What’s good for players should always be prioritized over what’s good for “organizations”. That’s my biggest issue with OHL and WHL lack of tender. I’m never fond of flimsy arguments for organizations that try to say it’s good for players. Gotta look at who is really benefitting. A captive group is not fair for anybody.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Here, the elite is referred to as tier 1 or AAA. To become tier 1, organizations have to apply through the district (ours is AAHA) and from what I understand can take a few years to get approved. Often, a new tier 1 team will get approval at say 10U to start and then in subsequent years get approved at older ages. Some, only have teams at 14U or 16U and above. Tier 1 is a separate league from tier 2, so if a team is getting crushed early in tier 1, they can't just drop down to tier 2. There is a team not far from me that has a reputation of collecting the letter-chasers. Kids who are not AAA players, but want to play AAA will play there. In tier 1, no restrictions. But yes, it is why orgs like Mid Fairfield Rangers often have teams that are amongst the best in the country in multiple age groups. Kids will travel 2+ hours each way for practice.

But see - I wonder if sometimes it isn't better to save hockey parents from themselves?

Is it really in a kid's best interest to be a "letter-chaser" and play "AAA" hockey and get crushed every week? Is it in a kids best interests to have to travel 2+ hrs each way for practice?



So in the Edmonton system slats is describing there is a distinction between the elite (AAA/AA) and non-elite (Tiers 1-6) teams. Once you're on a AAA or AA team you can't be moved up or down - but that's why they're so careful about maintaining competitive balance. I know our club in fact cut their number of teams because they wanted to make sure the teams they did put on the ice were competitive.

 

[Yukon Joe]

What’s good for players should always be prioritized over what’s good for “organizations”. That’s my biggest issue with OHL and WHL lack of tender. I’m never fond of flimsy arguments for organizations that try to say it’s good for players. Gotta look at who is really benefitting. A captive group is not fair for anybody.

So look - yesterday was the WHL draft. My kid wanted to know if anyone he knew would get drafted so I was following along. When you think about it though it's kind of insane how the rights to some 15 year old kid in Saskatchewan can suddenly be controlled by a team thousands of kms away from home.

But it's one thing when the "organization" is a major junior hockey team worth a few million dollars - and another thing when the organization is a non-profit community hockey club. As I said above sometimes parents may need to be saved from themselves.

 

[Slats432]

But see - I wonder if sometimes it isn't better to save hockey parents from themselves?

Is it really in a kid's best interest to be a "letter-chaser" and play "AAA" hockey and get crushed every week? Is it in a kids best interests to have to travel 2+ hrs each way for practice?



So in the Edmonton system slats is describing there is a distinction between the elite (AAA/AA) and non-elite (Tiers 1-6) teams. Once you're on a AAA or AA team you can't be moved up or down - but that's why they're so careful about maintaining competitive balance. I know our club in fact cut their number of teams because they wanted to make sure the teams they did put on the ice were competitive.

The club reduces teams because there is a formula for number of teams based on registration numbers. If you have a certain number of registrations you need to have a certain number of teams. When draw zones change, then registration numbers change.

 

[Minnesota Knudsens]

The club reduces teams because there is a formula for number of teams based on registration numbers. If you have a certain number of registrations you need to have a certain number of teams. When draw zones change, then registration numbers change.

I realize that I’m taking this thread off the rails again, but I am really interested in your opinion on something given your previous high level coaching experience. Here’s an interesting problem. Two players: Player A and Player B.

Player A has been with the system a while and has shown good results at lower levels. He’s a smart player that skates and does drills well. Basically a textbook player. However in scrimmages, he tends to disappear a bit. He may not (yet) have the physical tools to compete at a higher level, but he’s paid his dues and knows my system.

Player B is all tools. He’s rough around the edges and struggles a bit in drills. However in scrimmages he scores goals, skates like the wind, is a consistent threat in the o zone (hard shot), and is decent in the D zone/on the PK. He’s just really inexperienced and tends to be out of position while competing to win.

Which player do you prefer to coach and why?

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I realize that I’m taking this thread off the rails again, but I am really interested in your opinion on something given your previous high level coaching experience. Here’s an interesting problem. Two players: Player A and Player B.

Player A has been with the system a while and has shown good results at lower levels. He’s a smart player that skates and does drills well. Basically a textbook player. However in scrimmages, he tends to disappear a bit. He may not (yet) have the physical tools to compete at a higher level, but he’s paid his dues and knows my system.

Player B is all tools. He’s rough around the edges and struggles a bit in drills. However in scrimmages he scores goals, skates like the wind, is a consistent threat in the o zone (hard shot), and is decent in the D zone/on the PK. He’s just really inexperienced and tends to be out of position while competing to win.

Which player do you prefer to coach and why?

In general the kid that finishes well is going to get preference in this scenario, because it’s much easier to teach a goal scorer positional play than to teach an all around player how to score.

That’s exactly what happened to two kids on Team A this season…

One kid, Wayne, was a really good skater that studied film, was extremely sound positionally and a real worker bee type.

This kid started out the season as C1. He was a professional practice player that did eye opening things in scrimmages.

Another kid, Mario, was a straight line speedster, that wasn’t a technically good skater, but he was a true junkyard dog that hounded the shit out of the puck and made the other teams miserable with his non-stop motor.

In practice he was kind of a goober doing drills.

He started with no set position.

By Nov, Wayne was demoted to C2 and Mario rose to be C1 because Mario filled the net and Wayne didn’t.

By the end of the season, Wayne was buried on line 3 and had been surpassed by another C who wasn’t as good an overall player, but this kid was also putting the puck in the net.

Wayne is a really good player and I felt badly because this kid can really pass the puck, but being banished to line three was a hockey death sentence.

The kid was stuck with players who couldn’t finish or pass well… so his lack of finish created this huge catch 22 and he couldn’t seem to get his head above water.

Ultimately, coaches are always going to prioritize kids who bury the puck.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Which player do you prefer to coach and why?

So look -this question wasn't directed at me. @Slats432 is a legit hockey coach, and I'm just a hockey dad who goes out on the ice to move pucks around and set up cones as an assistant coach.

"prefer" is the key word here, I think. Of course any coach prefers the kid who follows directions in practice. But the kid who can score is going to get more opportunities in tryouts. That's just how hockey is, and perhaps understandably so.

 

[Slats432]

I realize that I’m taking this thread off the rails again, but I am really interested in your opinion on something given your previous high level coaching experience. Here’s an interesting problem. Two players: Player A and Player B.

Player A has been with the system a while and has shown good results at lower levels. He’s a smart player that skates and does drills well. Basically a textbook player. However in scrimmages, he tends to disappear a bit. He may not (yet) have the physical tools to compete at a higher level, but he’s paid his dues and knows my system.

Player B is all tools. He’s rough around the edges and struggles a bit in drills. However in scrimmages he scores goals, skates like the wind, is a consistent threat in the o zone (hard shot), and is decent in the D zone/on the PK. He’s just really inexperienced and tends to be out of position while competing to win.

Which player do you prefer to coach and why?

That really isn't enough information to make a decision. If the question is who I keep and who I let go, that is an even tougher decision.

It also depends on team make up. This season I had a player that didn't seem to have the compete required to be successful but ended up being top 5 in scoring and the smartest player on our team. Seemed a little disinterested in tryouts. But I kept him.

You have to look at the entire body of work. There is a grocery list of requirements.

Skating, puck skills, compete, team dynamics, hockey sense, etc etc.

Sorry I can't give a better answer.

 

[Minnesota Knudsens]

In general the kid that finishes well is going to get preference in this scenario, because it’s much easier to teach a goal scorer positional play than to teach an all around player how to score.

That’s exactly what happened to two kids on Team A this season…

One kid, Wayne, was a really good skater that studied film, was extremely sound positionally and a real worker bee type.

This kid started out the season as C1. He was a professional practice player that did eye opening things in scrimmages.

Another kid, Mario, was a straight line speedster, that wasn’t a technically good skater, but he was a true junkyard dog that hounded the shit out of the puck and made the other teams miserable with his non-stop motor.

In practice he was kind of a goober doing drills.

He started with no set position.

By Nov, Wayne was demoted to C2 and Mario rose to be C1 because Mario filled the net and Wayne didn’t.

By the end of the season, Wayne was buried on line 3 and had been surpassed by another C who wasn’t as good an overall player, but this kid was also putting the puck in the net.

Wayne is a really good player and I felt badly because this kid can really pass the puck, but being banished to line three was a hockey death sentence.

The kid was stuck with players who couldn’t finish or pass well… so his lack of finish created this huge catch 22 and he couldn’t seem to get his head above water.

Ultimately, coaches are always going to prioritize kids who bury the puck.

So this reply was fascinating to me because my son just finished a rep team tryout and he is Player B. Your description of “Mario” fits my son to an absolute tee. It’s downright eerie. However my son lost one of the final spots to Player A.

My son didn’t do so hot in the drills, except the ones that involved competitive races for the puck. He beat some really good players.

He got into 2 scrimmages. This is where he truly excelled IMO. First one was intersquad. His team won 1-0 and my son scored the only goal. He was fed a weak pass in front of the net, but aggressively fought off the defender, and used a quick release to surprise the goalie. He and another really good player carried play and had the other team hemmed all game long. They put him and this player out to defend the lead on the PK with 30 seconds. They ended up breaking out the puck on a 2 on 0 and my son made a perfect pass for a tap in. Other player accidentally deflected it wide.

Scrimmage 2 the coaches made a point to split my son and this kid up. My son played with lesser players and had an even better game against a rival city. About 4 shots on goal in a really tight defensive game. Then on a breakout he just flat out beat the defenders, used his body to puck protect, out waited the goalie and tucked it in. It was a highlight reel type of goal. He was unlucky not to score on another shot. Hit the goalie in the shoulder and just trickled over the net after glancing the crossbar. Late in the game the coaches put him out on the PK up 4-3. My son was the forechecker and he kept hounding the puck and sent the opposing team back 3 times into their own zone. Killed about a minute ten pretty much by himself. We were stoked on the drive home.

Then he got cut. When I asked the coach for an explanation, all he talked about was the first few days of drills. A lot of his criticisms sounded coachable.

I know Player A very well, the player that got the spot over my son. Not being mean, but I did not notice this kid in either scrimmage, save one really bad angle shot in which he should’ve passed to a player parked in front of the net for a tap in. And he played most of the game on my son’s line. 0 points in 2 games. But his background at lower levels with the organization is really good. Kid uses his smarts to score sneaky goals, but his skill set seemed really ineffective against the better teams we faced in this tryout. Just not physically strong enough.

Still kind of blown away.