Is there an argument for Kopitar to be the 3rd best player of his generation behind Crosby/Ovechkin?

[KrisLetAngry]

Deserves way more than 2 Selkes too *cough Bergeron* but this site wont be able to handle that conversation

I Think Kopitar deserves at least 1 more over Bergeron


Its tough to do ranks but a case for 5 could be Kopitar.

 

[SirPaste]

Are we talking strictly forwards because I would say that Doughty on his own team would have just as much as a case as Kopitar

 

[qcal1427]

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

Personally, I don’t rank players based on individual awards.

I don't think it's the only thing that matters -- I would comfortably have Kopitar above Corey Perry, for instance. When you're comparing HoFers though it absolutely does make a difference and the fact that he didn't even have one season where he was considered the best or second best player in the league is a big (comparative) knock against him

 

[AKL]

I feel like this type of stuff always happens with time. When you're no longer within the period in question, people start letting longevity play too big a role in the "who's the best" debates. No, Kopitar was not the third best player of that generation. It's still Malkin or Kane.

 

[unicornpig]

fact that ppl put giroux in the same sentence as kopitar is all you need to know about the knowledge of east coast fans. imbeciles.

 

[Stephen]

I think I'd start the Crosby/OV generation at about 2001, with Kovalchuk and Spezza, and agree with 2009 as a good stopping point. I agree 2010-12 was kind of a dip, with Hall/Seguin, RNH/Landy and Yakupov, and I'm not sure they belong in either group, but 2013 was the MacKinnon/Barkov/Drouin/Jones draft, so that's where I start the new generation, even if 2015 is when the floodgates opened.

No hard lines for sure but for this exercise I’ll lump Kovalchuk and Spezza with the tail end of the Lecavalier Thornton arc. Reason being Kovalchuk being Ovechkin v.98 and Spezza being part of the pre-2005 WJC Team Canada Dream Team.

 

[AvroArrow]

Malkin and Kane comfortably ahead

 

[The Pale King]

In over 200 less games played, Malkin has about 80 more points than Kopitar. So no.

Believe it or not, playing the games is actually a good thing. Especially when a player brings so much to the table away from the offensive end of the rink. That's 200 extra games where the number two center wasn't forced to play up lineup, 200 games where the opposing top-pairing had to expend energy trying to shut down the cycle game.

I would expect a guy who plays 60 games a year to have a higher scoring pace than a guy who plays 80.

 

[GMR]

Malkin was a better player than OV in 2007, 2012, 2014, 2016 (though really they both weren't elite this year as only Kane had a truly elite year), 2017, 2018, and 2020

OV was better 2006 (malkin wouldnt have been better) 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2015, 2019, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2025

2005 & 2024 - they were pretty tied, with neither playing in 2005 due to lockout and 2024 both being mid 60 pt guys

Malkin better 7 years since 04 draft
OV better in 12 years since 04 draft
2 Years tied/NA

Malkin vs Crosby, he was better in 2009, 2012, 2018, 2020 so 4 seasons for sure

Malkin has had years definately better than both Crosby and OV throughout his career.

Aren't you just talking about who had the better season?

Jamie Benn and Corey Perry also had some seasons where they played better than Ovechkin or Crosby.

I'm saying I don't remember Malkin ever being considered the league's best player at that moment in time. Crosby was always considered higher even when hurt.

 

[hamzarocks]

Aren't you just talking about who had the better season?

Jamie Benn and Corey Perry also had some seasons where they played better than Ovechkin or Crosby.

I'm saying I don't remember Malkin ever being considered the league's best player at that moment in time. Crosby was always considered higher even when hurt.

The better season determines the better player for that year yes but if a player has multiple seasons they are better than a comparable over a stretch then that player should be considered better than the comparable player even if comparable player has higher brand value/name value

2009, 2012, 2018, 2020 Malkin had better seasons than Crosby. They were not consecutive and in 2 of those years Crosby was hurt but I can't see Malkin being a worse player than Crosby these years as he was amongst the top players in the league

2007, 2012, 2014, 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2020 Malkin were better seasons than same years for OV. For this comparison, Malkin was having better years more frequently than OV when both were healthy and not missing games with the spread period being lower (2012 to 2020 9 years where Malkin had 5 or 6 of the best seasons) so he definately should be considered a better player than OV for parts of 2010s

 

[HeadLiceHatty]

No

 

[landy]

I can see the argument. Longevity and injuries play a big part. Malkin has the obvious peak, but Kopitar has the consistency and lack of help around him.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Maybe after Malkin. But certainly not for #3. I'd say Kane maybe is even higher than him.

 

[archangel2]

I take Malkin, Kane before him

 

[Vukotal Recall]

All I know is that if I had a time machine, I would let someone else in a different time machine kill Hitler so I could go back and force Gainey to draft Kopitar instead of Price.

 

[Gardner McKay]

No
o

That is no two ways.

 

[Penguin Suited Up]

Believe it or not, playing the games is actually a good thing. Especially when a player brings so much to the table away from the offensive end of the rink. That's 200 extra games where the number two center wasn't forced to play up lineup, 200 games where the opposing top-pairing had to expend energy trying to shut down the cycle game.

I would expect a guy who plays 60 games a year to have a higher scoring pace than a guy who plays 80.

Having played more games doesn’t make you a better player than someone else. It just means you played more games.

 

[nowhereman]

Malkin was a better player than OV in 2007, 2012, 2014, 2016 (though really they both weren't elite this year as only Kane had a truly elite year), 2017, 2018, and 2020

OV was better 2006 (malkin wouldnt have been better) 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2015, 2019, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2025

2005 & 2024 - they were pretty tied, with neither playing in 2005 due to lockout and 2024 both being mid 60 pt guys

Malkin better 7 years since 04 draft
OV better in 12 years since 04 draft
2 Years tied/NA

Malkin vs Crosby, he was better in 2009, 2012, 2018, 2020 so 4 seasons for sure

Malkin has had years definately better than both Crosby and OV throughout his career.

Having a better season doesn't mean he was the better player. Malkin never sustained his dominance long enough, season-to-season. Crosby was the best player in the world up until McDavid took off, even though the odd player would have a better season (but could never sustain it).

 

[CanadienShark]

There is not.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

No, but in terms of their career pace you’re comparing a 91 point player to a 70 point player. That’s a huge gap that can’t easily be closed by defense.

FWIW--at even strength the gap is only 833 to 805, or a 56 pt player to a 45 pt player. So the difference can largely be explained by offensive team/PP scoring and deployment.

Another interesting fact : Kopitar did not play with a single 70+ pts player from 2008 to 2022.

I think some people undervalue the environment in which Kopitar played in (defensive system limiting his offensive capabilities, very shallow supporting cast during his prime, excellent two-way center who rarely cheated for offense, if ever).

(FWIW, I have him 4th behind Malkin.)

Yeah vs. the other two Kopitar played bonkers minutes, arguably the hardest of any forward in the NHL, while being Mr. Everything for the Kings, being relied on for the offense too. He regularly outscored his teammates by 20-30 points while playing 200 ft selke level hockey. I'ts not easy to lead the league in forward ice time, and most often the players doing it aren't PK/defensive players, they're getting relatively 'easy' deployment on the PP. Kopitar did it all and rarely missed a game and even did it for deep palyoff runs back to back to back.

It will depend on what you're asking--who is more raw talented (Kane and Malkin) vs. your needs weighted vs. how much you value consistency and availability. Kopitar will go down as one of the steadiest, most reliable players in NHL history. Malkins peaks were great, but what a roller coaster of consistency and availability. Kane, absolutely clutch, gives heart attacks as an opponent. I have to be a homer and take Kopitar because neither of those guys could replace what he's done in LA on both sides of the puck. I think there's a case for him as 3rd if you value the above.

The best ability is availability and I think this thread is largely overlooking the value of minutes/games played and role.

 

[GMR]

The better season determines the better player for that year yes but if a player has multiple seasons they are better than a comparable over a stretch then that player should be considered better than the comparable player even if comparable player has higher brand value/name value

2009, 2012, 2018, 2020 Malkin had better seasons than Crosby. They were not consecutive and in 2 of those years Crosby was hurt but I can't see Malkin being a worse player than Crosby these years as he was amongst the top players in the league

2007, 2012, 2014, 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2020 Malkin were better seasons than same years for OV. For this comparison, Malkin was having better years more frequently than OV when both were healthy and not missing games with the spread period being lower (2012 to 2020 9 years where Malkin had 5 or 6 of the best seasons) so he definately should be considered a better player than OV for parts of 2010s

Not sure that's correct. Ovechkin led the league in goals many of those seasons you listed. And he's primarily judged on goal scoring. Obviously Malkin was a better passer and defensive player.

 

[elmaco]

Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin were always the trifecta.

Jonathan Toews, if u don't remember the Toews hype you were not there.

 

[Penguin Suited Up]

FWIW--at even strength the gap is only 833 to 805, or a 56 pt player to a 45 pt player. So the difference can largely be explained by offensive team/PP scoring and deployment.




Yeah vs. the other two Kopitar played bonkers minutes, arguably the hardest of any forward in the NHL, while being Mr. Everything for the Kings, being relied on for the offense too. He regularly outscored his teammates by 20-30 points while playing 200 ft selke level hockey. I'ts not easy to lead the league in forward ice time, and most often the players doing it aren't PK/defensive players, they're getting relatively 'easy' deployment on the PP. Kopitar did it all and rarely missed a game and even did it for deep palyoff runs back to back to back.

It will depend on what you're asking--who is more raw talented (Kane and Malkin) vs. your needs weighted vs. how much you value consistency and availability. Kopitar will go down as one of the steadiest, most reliable players in NHL history. Malkins peaks were great, but what a roller coaster of consistency and availability. Kane, absolutely clutch, gives heart attacks as an opponent. I have to be a homer and take Kopitar because neither of those guys could replace what he's done in LA on both sides of the puck. I think there's a case for him as 3rd if you value the above.

The best ability is availability and I think this thread is largely overlooking the value of minutes/games played and role.

Absolutely correct. You are a homer for taking Kopitar over either of Malkin or Kane for any reason.

 

[Kaner9]

Nah its malkin then kane

 

[qcal1427]

FWIW--at even strength the gap is only 833 to 805, or a 56 pt player to a 45 pt player. So the difference can largely be explained by offensive team/PP scoring and deployment.

Just another incredibly important part of the game that Malkin and Kane are significantly better at!