Is there a narrative that the Capitals are sacrificing everything to get Ovechkin the Goal Record? Is there a double standard with regards to Crosby?

[Toby91ca]

That big step back was supposed to be this season. The Caps snuck into the playoffs last season and were called PDO merchants. See the above post.

Not sure about that. I mean, they are almost certainly going to take a step back next year....they are 2nd overall right now, not sure if many expect that to continue. But last year as an example....they snuck in, not sure there really is much of a step back from that other than completely tanking. Many, many teams are close to getting into the playoffs, so teams can sneak in from time to time.

I'm wondering if they will have a significant fall next year or not (doesn't mean completely fall out of playoffs, but a significant drop due to the reasons I noted.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Man the Caps really lucked out on their old farts going on LTIR instead of puddering around making 15M against the cap like Geno and Letang are this season.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Man the Caps really lucked out on their old farts going on LTIR instead of puddering around making 15M against the cap like Geno and Letang are this season.

Sure, but they also invested that cap space extremely well by bringing in guys like Chychrun, Thompson, Roy etc.

Dubas would’ve spent it all on some mediocre and overpaid players.

 

[Midnight Judges]

They were PDO merchants last year and got f***ing annihilated in the playoffs, just like everyone thought they would.

And yet, knocking the Penguins out of a playoff position was still hilarious.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

Not sure about that. I mean, they are almost certainly going to take a step back next year....they are 2nd overall right now, not sure if many expect that to continue. But last year as an example....they snuck in, not sure there really is much of a step back from that other than completely tanking. Many, many teams are close to getting into the playoffs, so teams can sneak in from time to time.

I'm wondering if they will have a significant fall next year or not (doesn't mean completely fall out of playoffs, but a significant drop due to the reasons I noted.

Yes I don't think they'll be top of the league next year. They may still be one of the better teams.

What I meant was that people expected them to regress to a worse team than they were last year. Instead, they've retooled and are a legit contender.

 

[Neil Racki]

Caps playoff spanking

players gave everything they had, going 4-1 over final 5, just to make the playoffs. We had huge injuries and John Carlson was playing out of his mind for 30 mins a game. Guy probably lost 25 lbs a game.

Game 1 vs NYR we had 3 AHLers on the back line (Iorio, McIlrath and Alexeyev)

2nd half of last season, you saw Carbery's system and team playing 200 foot hockey .. then non stop injuries on back line took its toll

 

[wetcoast]

Personally, I find what Ovechkin is doing this season more impressive than anything Crosby's done recently (since like 2021 - maybe earlier).

Sure I suppose if you only looked at the stat you might come to this conclusion but if you watch the games not a chance.

He is having a perfect statical season but he isn't really a force out there any more and drifts to the bench very quickly instead of back checking, which is fine given his age but your observation just doesn't exist in reality.

Yeah, Crosby's had some nice ~90 point seasons on a subpar Penguins team that hasn't been quite good enough for the playoffs, but he's not the all around player he used to be. His defensive play/impact has tanked in recent years. So there's not too much more that he's providing other than offense (well, and a good possession game and leadership).

Do you think Ovi's all around ability has been even close this year?

Serious question.

I'm not pretending Ovechkin is the force he was in the late 2000s or a Mark Stone-esque two-way winger, but he's showing tremendous heart and resilience and seems to be a really good veteran presence and leader at this point. He's also showing that he can integrate his skills well into a system that benefits both himself and his team (something that he was criticized - perhaps unfairly - for not being able to do in the past). He's been an important contributor to the best team in the East and the Capitals have a better record with him in the line-up than without this year (and the sample size of missed games is considerable). I find all of this more impressive than making some crappy team that would be 13th or so a 9th or 10th placed team (although the bottom really seems to be falling out this year for PIT).

 

[wetcoast]

Caps playoff spanking

players gave everything they had, going 4-1 over final 5, just to make the playoffs. We had huge injuries and John Carlson was playing out of his mind for 30 mins a game. Guy probably lost 25 lbs a game.

Well for the record Carlson didn't play a single game over 30 minutes and also didn't lose 125 lbs in those 5 games, just saying.

He did play great but let's try to keep it semi real at least.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

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Game 1 vs NYR we had 3 AHLers on the back line (Iorio, McIlrath and Alexeyev)

2nd half of last season, you saw Carbery's system and team playing 200 foot hockey .. then non stop injuries on back line took its toll

 

[Midnight Judges]

He is having a perfect statical season but he isn't really a force out there any more and drifts to the bench very quickly instead of back checking, which is fine given his age but your observation just doesn't exist in reality.

That's incorrect.

Ovechkin has been quite good this season in all zones, whereas your boy Crosby is on an 82 game pace of 112 non-power play goals against - which would be the worst defensive season from any forward over the past two decades.

For reference, Ovechkin is on pace for a stingy 45 non-power play goals against this season - and that would be if he played 82 games.

Just curious, how does someone "drifts...very quickly?" It is as if you wanted to insult Ovechkin in 2 mutually exclusive (and false) directions at the same time.

 

[wetcoast]

That's incorrect.

Ovechkin has been quite good this season in all zones, whereas your boy Crosby is on and 82 game pace of 112 non-power play goals against - which would be by far the worst defensive season from any forward over the past two decades (for reference, Ovechkin is on pace for a stingy 45 non-power play goals against this season - and that would be if he played 82 games).

People have watched him play he floats around out there and everyone else is doing the work , sure the stats are there but his play wasn't as described and his stingy 45 non power play goals against is in part because he leaves the ice so fast when the puck goes the other direction.

I won't waste time posting videos about it but someone like yourself might do so one day.

Like I said there is no shame in his protected play he is 39 but the poster I was referring to was out to lunch and most people ehre saw crosby play in the recent 4 nations he is a significantly better player right now on a crappy team.

 

[DitchMarner]

Sure I suppose if you only looked at the stat you might come to this conclusion but if you watch the games not a chance.

He is having a perfect statical season but he isn't really a force out there any more and drifts to the bench very quickly instead of back checking, which is fine given his age but your observation just doesn't exist in reality.



Do you think Ovi's all around ability has been even close this year?

Serious question.

I've watched the Caps play a lot this season.

Don't watch the Penguins much, but Crosby simply hasn't been very good defensively the last two or three seasons. He's bled goals against. Part of that is due to usage and the team he plays on, sure.

Ovechkin would have close to 40 goals if not for the injury and is scoring at almost a 60 goal clip on a very good team. That's highly impressive for a player any age, let alone 39.

I find that much more impressive than Crosby's 90ish point seasons with pretty pedestrian defensive play in recent years. We can agree to disagree.

 

[Neil Racki]

Well for the record Carlson didn't play a single game over 30 minutes and also didn't lose 125 lbs in those 5 games, just saying.

He did play great but let's try to keep it semi real at least.

He played 29:20 in gm 82 in a 2-1 must win to get in vs Philly

But you probably stat checked and already knew this prior to posting

Nonetheless, you are correct. He did not play over 30 mins and he did not lose 125 lbs.

 

[BallardEra]

I've watched the Caps play a lot this season.

Don't watch the Penguins much, but Crosby simply hasn't been very good defensively the last two or three seasons. He's bled goals against. Part of that is due to usage and the team he plays on, sure.

Ovechkin would have close to 40 goals if not for the injury and is scoring at almost a 60 goal clip on a very good team. That's highly impressive for a player any age, let alone 39.

I find that much more impressive than Crosby's 90ish point seasons with pretty pedestrian defensive play in recent years. We can agree to disagree.

Yep it’s funny how people say Ovechkin is slowing down and at the same time ignore that Crosby is doing likewise.

Crosby looked very bad in that 4 Nations final game. Hard to keep up at age 37.

Welcome to getting old.

 

[eramosat]

Nothing about the OP's specualtions, or questions, makes too much sense to me? I just came here looking for a replay and discussion on the hit on Hathaway in the Penguins Flyers game, which I gather was kinda unnecessary?

 

[wetcoast]

I've watched the Caps play a lot this season.

Don't watch the Penguins much, but Crosby simply hasn't been very good defensively the last two or three seasons. He's bled goals against. Part of that is due to usage and the team he plays on, sure.

Ovechkin would have close to 40 goals if not for the injury and is scoring at almost a 60 goal clip on a very good team. That's highly impressive for a player any age, let alone 39.

Like I said before statically he is having a perfect season but his actual level of play doesn't correspond to your views here and we will agree to disagree and others can watch for themselves.

Your statement was this.

Personally, I find what Ovechkin is doing this season more impressive than anything Crosby's done recently (since like 2021 - maybe earlier).

Yeah, Crosby's had some nice ~90 point seasons on a subpar Penguins team that hasn't been quite good enough for the playoffs, but he's not the all around player he used to be. His defensive play/impact has tanked in recent years. So there's not too much more that he's providing other than offense (well, and a good possession game and leadership).

I find that much more impressive than Crosby's 90ish point seasons with pretty pedestrian defensive play in recent years. We can agree to disagree.

We are going to disagree and like I have stated if one looks past the counting stats your argument doesn't really stand up to scrutiny.

Let's put this in simple terms since you brought it up.

Very few people would take Ovechkin this season, except for the hard core fans, over Crosby as a player in any season of the timeframe you referenced.

 

[DitchMarner]

Like I said before statically he is having a perfect season but his actual level of play doesn't correspond to your views here and we will agree to disagree and others can watch for themselves.

Your statement was this.


Yeah, Crosby's had some nice ~90 point seasons on a subpar Penguins team that hasn't been quite good enough for the playoffs, but he's not the all around player he used to be. His defensive play/impact has tanked in recent years. So there's not too much more that he's providing other than offense (well, and a good possession game and leadership).

We are going to disagree and like I have stated if one looks past the counting stats your argument doesn't really stand up to scrutiny.

Let's put this in simple terms since you brought it up.

Very few people would take Ovechkin this season, except for the hard core fans, over Crosby as a player in any season of the timeframe you referenced.

I'm a guy who likes the arts, philosophy, abstract thinking etc. I also really like hockey.

But hockey isn't too complicated. Guys who have an innate ability to put the puck in the net with a high degree of frequency can make a significant impact even if they don't do a whole lot else (just speaking theoretically).

In the past, people could say that even if Ovechkin was scoring at about a 60 goal and near 90 point pace, Crosby was a better player scoring something 40 goals and 50 assists with a greater defensive impact and better all-around game. But he's basically being deployed like a bad team scorer at this point.

I mean, you can make a poll if you want to. It doesn't really matter to me. Impressive is subjective and not necessarily synonymous with better anyway. Scoring at over a 55 goal clip on a good team at age 39 in a season where you broke your leg is impressive any way you slice it.

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

Crosby looked very bad in that 4 Nations final game. Hard to keep up at age 37.

He played the entire tournament with a f***ed up wrist/shoulder

He only took like 3 shots the entire tournament including one for the ENG

 

[Golden_Jet]

Sure I suppose if you only looked at the stat you might come to this conclusion but if you watch the games not a chance.

He is having a perfect statical season but he isn't really a force out there any more and drifts to the bench very quickly instead of back checking, which is fine given his age but your observation just doesn't exist in reality.



Do you think Ovi's all around ability has been even close this year?

Serious question.

That's wrong, appears you aren’t watching him. and made that up, to protect your fanboy.

 

[wetcoast]

That's wrong, appears you aren’t watching him. and made that up, to protect your fanboy.

I watch enough and my comments are about what I watch I don't prop up players with false narratives.

Others have eyes they can watch for themselves.

 

[AfroThunder396]

And they've significantly improved since then.

Congratulations, you've gone from a mediocre lucky team to a good lucky team. Doesn't really change that much.

As I said above, they are legitimately good. For some reason Carolina and New Jersey can't seem to stop shooting themselves in the foot. Washington has taken advantage and they deserved credit for being stable this season. They are well coached and the GM has made some calculated risks that paid off.

I'm not sure why it's so hard for Caps fans to say that they are good AND getting all the bounces this year. Two things can be true. No one is saying that they're, like, Sabres/Hawks/Sharks bad. But last season they were the last loser standing after every other team in the east played themselves out of #8 and then got promptly obliterated in the playoffs. People aren't going to give them the benefit of the doubt no matter how many excuses you make.

Would you agree that if the Caps don't win a playoff round that this season it would be considered a huge failure?

 

[Golden_Jet]

Would you agree that if the Caps don't win a playoff round that this season it would be considered a huge failure?

Would you agree if they win a round or 2 then you were wrong all along.