Is there a narrative that the Capitals are sacrificing everything to get Ovechkin the Goal Record? Is there a double standard with regards to Crosby?

[sena]

Why exactly did they move Guentzel?

Dubas needed to win moneypuck with Bunting.

 

[Golden_Jet]

They should likely be rebuilding as they really have no shot at winning for starters. Even if you don’t think they should rebuild, Ovi should not be on the top line and should not be double shifting on the PP as he’s just not that player anymore.

Look, I don’t blame the Caps at all for doing this. But as a competitor and one of the best all time, I think it’s a bad look for Ovi. He should be getting the record because he deserves it, not because he’s afforded opportunities other players have not gotten.

Washington is doing fine, it should be Pittsburgh rebuilding, but they’re not because of Crosby.

 

[Cup or Bust]

How are they sacrificing to get him the goal record? What should they be doing differently then they are doing now? The team is 5-2 on the season and he has 5 points in 7 games. He had 31 goals last season. Should Washington play him on the 3rd line and not bother trying to compete? It would be different if the team was only winning 25 games a season and he was only a 15 goal scorer at this point and still playing on the first line. They made the playoffs last season, added some decent players in the offseason and have a few young guys emerging for the team. I don't really see anything they are doing wrong. They are not Cup contenders but if you can still be competitive and develop players that is not a bad situation to be in.

 

[wickedwitch]

They should likely be rebuilding as they really have no shot at winning for starters. Even if you don’t think they should rebuild, Ovi should not be on the top line and should not be double shifting on the PP as he’s just not that player anymore.

Look, I don’t blame the Caps at all for doing this. But as a competitor and one of the best all time, I think it’s a bad look for Ovi. He should be getting the record because he deserves it, not because he’s afforded opportunities other players have not gotten.

In the words of the Caps new GM:

“My intention is to be competitive,” he said. “I’m not a guy that likes losing. And I truly believe that we can transition, for lack of a better term, past the (Alex) Ovechkin era with a competitive team.


“I think we’ve made a statement already with what we’ve done in this offseason,” he continued. “It’s easy for people to say, ‘Your superstars are aging. It’s time to rebuild, blow it up, do it all over again.’ In actuality, that can be a lot harder than it sounds. And I think you’ve seen a lot of teams try it and kind of get stuck in an endless cycle of tearing down and building up and tearing down and building up and never getting where they want to be. And I think you can also look at some teams that have not done that and [have] had success.”

source: Chris Patrick wants to avoid a rebuild and keep the Capitals competitive into the post-Ovechkin era: ‘I’m not a guy that likes losing’

The Caps would be trying to retool with or without Ovi. He has little to do with their current strategy. It might be a bad strategy -- we'll see -- but it's not centered around Ovi.

 

[SirKillalot]

Capitals went out and got:
Pierre-Luc Dubois
Andrew Mangiapane
Jakub Vrana
Taylor Raddysh
Jackub Chychrun
Matt Roy
Logan Thompson
2nd 24
2nd 24
3rd 24
7th 24
3rd 25
4th 26

They sent out
Evgeny Kuznetsov
Anthony Mantha
Max Pacioretty (finally signed elsewhere during training camp)
Nicolas Aube-Kubel (signed elsewhere)
Beck Malenstyn
Joel Edmundson (signed elsewhere)
Nick Jensen
Darcy Kuemper
2nd 25
6th 25
3rd 24
5th 24
3rd 24
3rd 25
3rd 26

I think they can live with the trade off...while overall improving the team.

Chychrun and Roy in for Jensen and Edmundson on defense
Dubois, Mangiapane, Vrana, Raddysh in for Kuznetsov (off-ice/lockerroom issues), Mantha, Pacioretty, Aube-Kubel and Malenstyn on offense
Thompson in for Kuemper at goalie.
6 picks in, 7 picks out.

What are they sacrifying in reality?

 

[Golden_Jet]

Capitals went out and got:
Pierre-Luc Dubois
Andrew Mangiapane
Taylor Raddysh
Jackub Chychrun
Matt Roy
Logan Thompson
2nd 24
2nd 24
3rd 24
7th 24
3rd 25
4th 26

They sent out
Evgeny Kuznetsov
Anthony Mantha
Beck Malenstyn
Nick Jensen
Darcy Kuemper
2nd 25
6th 25
3rd 24
5th 24
3rd 24
3rd 25
3rd 26

I think they can live with the trade off...while overall improving the team.

Chychrun and Roy in for Jensen on defense
Dubois, Mangiapane, Raddysh in for Kuznetsov (off-ice/lockerroom issues), Mantha and Malenstyn on offense
Thompson in for Kuemper at goalie.
6 picks in, 7 picks out.

What are they sacrifying in reality?

Ya I like what they did in the last year.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Basically the question is in the title.

Do you believe (a) there is a narrative that Washington has sacrificed all team building for the sake of Ovechkin's legacy/pursuit of goal scoring record, (b) that this narrative has any merit, (c) that Pittsburgh has somehow escaped the same level of scrutiny with regards to the late stages of Crosby's career, (d) if there is a double standard, that this is somewhat warranted?

Weird read of the situation- Crosby and Malkin seemingly simply don’t want to leave, and you can’t just leave legends like that unsigned. If they wanna be there you gotta honor that until the wheels fall off and then some, and that’s what the Pens are doing. Those two are good enough where they keep their team outta the basement- not ideal for Pittsburgh, really, but they don’t have much of a choice. It’s not for any records, though.

Washington is seemingly in a similar situation, but it’s clearly until the goals record, not just to give Ovi what he wants until he retires, that’s the difference. Also the wheels are kinda falling off for Ovi, so it magnifies it more, whereas Crosby and Malkin are just still good when the team could really use a reset. When they start to suck it’ll only benefit the Pens, whereas Ovi’s decline is more obvious and is opposite to the goal right now.

Edit- I should note I love Ovi (the player), want him to get the goals record, and jinxed him into 2 goals tonight. You’re welcome.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Basically the question is in the title.

Do you believe (a) there is a narrative that Washington has sacrificed all team building for the sake of Ovechkin's legacy/pursuit of goal scoring record

No, they got a WC spot last year, and I think this years team is better. Another poster covered the picks off, already.

, (b) that this narrative has any merit

No I don’t.

, (c) that Pittsburgh has somehow escaped the same level of scrutiny with regards to the late stages of Crosby's career, (

Not positive I know what you mean really, not sure why Crosby needs scrutiny.

d) if there is a double standard, that this is somewhat warranted? Washington improved imo, Pittsburgh, well I’m not sure about, but they want to be competitive, since they signed those guys,

No, since I don’t think there is any standard. (to be doubled.)

 

[Kuz]

Pittsburgh have traded far more to compete than Washington have during Ovi and Crosbys careers. They traded Guentzel because og his UFA status and they where bad around the TDL.

Caps traded away Kuznetsov, Mantha and Edmundson last TDL and Orlov, Hathaway, Eller and Johansson the TDL the year before for picks. Making the team worse. Not exactly a team going all in for Ovi when weakening the team.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The argument you should be making here is "the Capitals are not sacrificing everything to get Ovi the goal record", not "the Penguins are sacrificing everything to get Crosby more points". Because it's painfully obvious the Penguins are not "sacrificing everything to get Crosby more points".

Anthony Beauvillier would not be their most common 1st line LW if they were trying to just pump up Crosby's point totals. They would have bent over backwards to give Guentzel a huge extension, rather than making the right team decision in trading him for futures.

 

[WarriorofTime]

The argument you should be making here is "the Capitals are not sacrificing everything to get Ovi the goal record", not "the Penguins are sacrificing everything to get Crosby more points". Because it's painfully obvious the Penguins are not "sacrificing everything to get Crosby more points".

It's a four part question

 

[Madap]

In the words of the Caps new GM:

source: Chris Patrick wants to avoid a rebuild and keep the Capitals competitive into the post-Ovechkin era: ‘I’m not a guy that likes losing’

The Caps would be trying to retool with or without Ovi. He has little to do with their current strategy. It might be a bad strategy -- we'll see -- but it's not centered around Ovi.

Well, like I said, even if you or the GM doesnt agree about a rebuild.. they’re still playing him top line, double shifting PP, and throwing him out there for EN situations all of which serve more purpose for Ovi and the Caps winning games.

 

[Empoleon8771]

It's a four part question

And parts 3 and 4 don't hold up to even the least bit of scrutiny.

You could have stopped at part 2 and I think most people would say that the narrative is false.

 

[stephenball]

People are always acting like the Caps traded four 1st round picks for Marner or something.

 

[LuckyDay]

I'm convinced this is what happened with Lemiuex's point streak when he was chasing Gretzky. Pittsburgh was be willing to tank a game but they needed to get Mario the puck at all costs, regardless. (Until his back gave out and he made dumb penalties against the guy that was assigned to check him.)

 

[Tryblot]

They should likely be rebuilding as they really have no shot at winning for starters. Even if you don’t think they should rebuild, Ovi should not be on the top line and should not be double shifting on the PP as he’s just not that player anymore.

Look, I don’t blame the Caps at all for doing this. But as a competitor and one of the best all time, I think it’s a bad look for Ovi. He should be getting the record because he deserves it, not because he’s afforded opportunities other players have not gotten.

He's getting the opportunity to be put in the situation because he deserves it. He's not being afforded undeserved opportunities. He wouldn't be close to the record if he didn't earn it.

Nothing wrong with the team now putting him out there in a couple extra situations because he managed to get close. If he wasn't close, he wouldn't be out. He deserves the extra shifts to beat the record. A record that was once deemed untouchable.

 

[Voight]

I mean the Pens didn't get that great of a haul for Guentzel to begin with.

Caps aren't sacrificing anything IMO. They've made retool type of trades without giving up any significant futures. Besides, they owe Ovy for what hes done for that franchise anyhow.

 

[Ghost of Murph]

Caps are 5-2 and have a stout roster. Pens are 3-6-1 and have a decent roster that is not performing well. People can think what they want about those two teams, but Washington is remaining competitive and is a fun team to watch.

Ovi will likely end his career being the greatest goal scorer in league history. Not seeing how anything is being sacrificed -- historic player plus competitive team. People saying the team is only centered around Ovi getting the record should watch some Caps games and pay closer attention.

As for the Pens, Crosby and Malkin are still very good players. GM should be doing everything to take advantage of these legends being on the team for whatever time remains for them being effective. Fans enjoy watching legendary elite players. Premature rebuilds are a lot less enticing.

 

[StreetHawk]

Basically the question is in the title.

Do you believe (a) there is a narrative that Washington has sacrificed all team building for the sake of Ovechkin's legacy/pursuit of goal scoring record, (b) that this narrative has any merit, (c) that Pittsburgh has somehow escaped the same level of scrutiny with regards to the late stages of Crosby's career, (d) if there is a double standard, that this is somewhat warranted?

Wash in their deals for PLD, Chrychrun, Jankowski have not sacrificed really much futures. Kept their 1sts. Ideally, they get Ovy to close to 30 this season to ensure he is in a position to break the record in 25/26. Don't want him to be at the pace he was half way through last season.

 

[filinski77]

I don't think there's a real narrative for it, other than a handful of Ovechkin haters who use it as a default excuse to put Ovi down.

The Capitals have been equally if not more successful than the Penguins since 2018, while also not pushing their rebuild years down the line (see how many first/2nd rounders both teams have made).

I agree that the Penguins 'should' have done more of what the Caps did (realize when they had no shot at a cup and start the re-tool). But that 100% has nothing to do with Sid.

 

[Adam da bomb]

They should likely be rebuilding as they really have no shot at winning for starters. Even if you don’t think they should rebuild, Ovi should not be on the top line and should not be double shifting on the PP as he’s just not that player anymore.

Look, I don’t blame the Caps at all for doing this. But as a competitor and one of the best all time, I think it’s a bad look for Ovi. He should be getting the record because he deserves it, not because he’s afforded opportunities other players have not gotten.

Gretzky got lots of opportunities and challenges . In those days forwards played more minutes played less D, scoring was easier because of goalie equipment. Wooden stick. Comparing records without context seems ridiculous. If a team tried to feed to break a record it just shows how ridiculous records are.

 

[DitchMarner]

I don't really see what's fundamentally different between what the Caps are doing and what the Pens are doing. Both teams have franchise icons and are choosing to try to remain competitive enough to have a shot at making the playoffs instead of rebuilding. I don't see what's wrong with that (after so many great years, Crosby and Ovechkin have earned the right to stay with their respective teams until they retire). Neither team is going all in or anything.

I do think it's kind of ironic that Ovechkin has (way?) more, "he's only padding his stats at this point!" remarks made about him when his team has made the playoffs in one of the last two years (unlike PIT) and may get in again and possibly even be a decent team this year (unlike PIT).

 

[McFlash97]

Still don't think he gets the record. He'll be 20 or so short heading into his final year in the NHL as a 40 year old just hanging on.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

I don't think there's a real narrative for it, other than a handful of Ovechkin haters who use it as a default excuse to put Ovi down.

The Capitals have been equally if not more successful than the Penguins since 2018, while also not pushing their rebuild years down the line (see how many first/2nd rounders both teams have made).

I agree that the Penguins 'should' have done more of what the Caps did (realize when they had no shot at a cup and start the re-tool). But that 100% has nothing to do with Sid.

He's also still one of their biggest threats. Why wouldn't you feed OV one timers?

 

[Blue and Green]

This is why fans don't run teams. Besides the fact that OV has expressed multiple times how he still is committed to winning and the importance of the capitals organization being on the same page, tanking is extremely costly to an organization. Unless you are getting McDavid, it isn't worth the stain and losing culture it creates.

This comment is defied by the preponderance of Stanley Cup wins for teams led by players that those teams drafted in the top three picks. Staal, Crosby & Malkin, Ovechkin, Toews & Kane, Doughty, Hedman & Stamkos, Mackinnon (& Makar, if I extended the criteria out to top four picks), Barkov-- their teams nearly run the championships table in the salary cap era.

Teams tank because it's the best chance to get elite talent, which is the most important factor for future success.