Line Combos: Is there a logical reason...

[Sidney the Kidney]

Shero is as much to blame as Bylsma. The sad truth is if you bump Dupuis off that top line you have....who as an option to replace him? Beau Bennett, and that's it.

People want to ***** endlessly about KCD but they ignore the fact that our roster has almost no options that might actually be better than that line.

Of course even if Shero tries to address that problem chances are Bylsma will just put whatever winger Shero acquires on Malkin's line and play them on their off wing , so I guess it's damned if you do and damned if you don't.

At this point, I'd be happy with either of Bennett or even Jokinen in place of Dupuis. Anyone with hands to actually make a play or make a pass once in a while. So I don't agree at all that there are no in-house options.

Dupuis kills that top line because the *only* thing he has that is on par with Crosby is his skating. His hockey sense, vision, and hands are so far below that of a top line winger it's painful to watch.

 

[Pancakes]

For me, theres 3 options: Bennett, Megna, Neal
All 3, over the course of a season would produce more than Dupuis right now imo.

I'd be fine to try Bennett in place of Dupuis. I'm not so sure Megna would produce more than Dupuis. He's far too raw and new to the NHL game. I think he'd get exposed playing against the toughest d pairings and shutdown lines in the NHL like he'd have to do playing with Sid.

Neal is not an option IMO. His chemistry with Malkin is simply too good. Malkin has finally started looking good again now that Neal has come back. If you take Neal away from Malkin that just cripples Malkin again. We need two lines rolling if we're to have any success long term. I hate to treat Sid like **** but he can carry weaker wingers in a way Malkin can't. Neal has to stay with Geno imo.

I don't know about that.

Neal-Crosby-Bennett... has everything a line could want. Goal scoring, passing, speed, board play, puck get, OK size... Its the middle of NOV, at least give it a try.

Kunitz-Malkin-Jokinen... I like Malkin and Jokinen together but they seem a little to euro and need help without the puck. Kunitz rounds out that line nicely.

Megna-Sutter-Dupuis... Speed and active play around Sutter so he can play his positional game. I would actually try to move Sutter as he's so bland that he's not even vanilla, he's the cardboard around the cone. If that third line isn't going to score like when Staal was around then it needs to buzz more. Be the line to put out after a goal is scored, for or against.

See above, re: Neal. I think you may have hit on something with the idea of moving Kunitz back with Geno though. An idea I had last night thinking about lines was:

Jokinen-Sid-Dupuis(or Bennett)
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal

Reasons: Makes our second line a matchup nightmare. That second line has also been at one time the best line in the NHL. Those three have chemistry and are a force together. Yes it gives Sid the weaker wingers by far but Sid can carry weaker wingers, and Jokinen and Bennett at least have the skill and smarts to get Sid the puck in good areas.

At this point, I'd be happy with either of Bennett or even Jokinen in place of Dupuis. Anyone with hands to actually make a play or make a pass once in a while. So I don't agree at all that there are no in-house options.

Dupuis kills that top line because the *only* thing he has that is on par with Crosby is his skating. His hockey sense, vision, and hands are so far below that of a top line winger it's painful to watch.

I do agree that Dupuis is hurting that line right now. I'd definitely be down to try Juice or Bennett there. I'd really like to see my proposed lines get tried, but I know they never will as the team would never give Malkin all the good wingers as they'd rather keep both star players happy. It's nice to dream, I guess.

 

[mpp9]

The only way I see this issue being solved is to finally find a longterm elite winger for Sid. Dupes gets to stick with Sid, while not being too much of a hindrance since he'll be handling the puck less. KMN reunites. And you get proper depth with Juice-Sutter-Beau.

Question is how do we go about it.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

The only way I see this issue being solved is to finally find a longterm elite winger for Sid. Dupes gets to stick with Sid, while not being too much of a hindrance since he'll be handling the puck less. KMN reunites. And you get proper depth with Juice-Sutter-Beau.

Question is how do we go about it.

It's not like they don't have assets right now.

Niskanen, Orpik, Jeffrey, Kobasew, D'Agostini, Glass, Adams (ha) and Engelland are all there, and some of the horded d prospects. Niskanen and Orpik would be the big ones, Niskanen doesn't really have a place when healthy and Orpik's replacement(s) are in the wings, he's also been bad. But they both have value and shouldn't be here next season.

Even Jokinen if he isn't going to be re-signed or used properly, hell, Dupuis as well. We aren't deep in forwards, but a long term winger for Sid is worth sacrificing there if they have to, and taking Dupuis away helps with Bylsma.

My God though, Dupuis to the third line is a must for me. It's nonnegotiable.

X/Bennett - Crosby - X/Bennett
Kunitz - Malkin - Neal

Jokinen - Sutter - Dupuis
Jokinen - Sutter - Megna
Dupuis - Sutter - Megna

 

[SEALBound]

It's not like they don't have assets right now.

Niskanen, Orpik, Jeffrey, Kobasew, D'Agostini, Glass, Adams (ha) and Engelland are all there, and some of the horded d prospects. Niskanen and Orpik would be the big ones, Niskanen doesn't really have a place when healthy and Orpik's replacement(s) are in the wings, he's also been bad. But they both have value and shouldn't be here next season.

Even Jokinen if he isn't going to be re-signed or used properly, hell, Dupuis as well. We aren't deep in forwards, but a long term winger for Sid is worth sacrificing there if they have to, and taking Dupuis away helps with Bylsma.

My God though, Dupuis to the third line is a must for me. It's nonnegotiable.

X/Bennett - Crosby - X/Bennett
Kunitz - Malkin - Neal

Jokinen - Sutter - Dupuis
Jokinen - Sutter - Megna
Dupuis - Sutter - Megna

Tell me why putting our leading scoring winger on the third line out of the Top 6 is the correct move for the team. Go ahead.

 

[ObsessedCreative*]

Tell me why putting our leading scoring winger on the third line out of the Top 6 is the correct move for the team. Go ahead.

Because people just LOVE to blindly **** all over JJ for no good reason at all.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Tell me why putting our leading scoring winger on the third line out of the Top 6 is the correct move for the team. Go ahead.

If Crosby had his elite winger it would make sense to me, scoring depth and Jokinen has looked good with Sutter. Being able to put a top 6 winger on the 3rd line as a legitimate choice would be great, and injuries happen. Jokinen has also only had Malkin involved on 4 of his ES points so I don't consider it to be a great dependency. JSD/JSM would be balanced, imo.

With the current roster (plus Megna), I want a flexible top 9.

Kunitz - Crosby - Jokinen
Jokinen - Crosby - Bennett
Jokinen - Crosby - Megna
Jokinen - Crosby - Dupuis (for argument's sake)
Kunitz - Malkin - Jokinen
Jokinen - Malkin - Megna

Could all pop up.

Depending on a new Crosby winger it could be

Jokinen/X - Crosby - Jokinen/X

 

[Ogrezilla]

Tell me why putting our leading scoring winger on the third line out of the Top 6 is the correct move for the team. Go ahead.

he doesn't have Kunitz in the bottom 6. But I assume you mean Jussi

1. Half of his production is on the powerplay. He can still do that playing on the third line
2. He has played well with Dupuis every time they have been put together.
3. It gives us more scoring depth.
4. With Geno, he is largely being wasted because he and Neal fill too similar of a role. Geno and Neal's left wing is a position where we need a role player. It is the position on this roster where we least need a skilled scorer.

with our current roster, Jussi should be tried with Sid and Bennett should be put with Geno and Neal. I am convinced at this point that Jussi is a very mediocre fit with Geno and Neal. I think he is largely being wasted in that position and doesn't provide what Geno really needs to elevate his game to the next level. Megna - Malkin - Neal was just as good because even though Megna isn't as good as Jussi, he brings the puck chasing element that Malkin has always done well with. And that opens up a spot for Jussi to actually make an impact somewhere else: either with Sid or on the third line. Both of which need a skilled scorer like Jussi more than Geno and Neal do.

Or maybe I'm just a hater and I want to demote him to the third line for no good reason. I mean, his NHL 14 player ranking is one of the 6 highest of our forwards, so the only logical conclusion is to play him in the top 6.

 

[Shockmaster]

Tell me why putting our leading scoring winger on the third line out of the Top 6 is the correct move for the team. Go ahead.

Because most of his points have come on the PP or when he's on a different line than Malkin. 5-on-5 those two haven't played well together.

 

[SEALBound]

If Crosby had his elite winger it would make sense to me, scoring depth and Jokinen has looked good with Sutter. Being able to put a top 6 winger on the 3rd line as a legitimate choice would be great, and injuries happen. Jokinen has also only had Malkin involved on 4 of his ES points so I don't consider it to be a great dependency. JSD/JSM would be balanced, imo.

With the current roster (plus Megna), I want a flexible top 9.

Kunitz - Crosby - Jokinen
Jokinen - Crosby - Bennett
Jokinen - Crosby - Megna
Jokinen - Crosby - Dupuis (for argument's sake)
Kunitz - Malkin - Jokinen
Jokinen - Malkin - Megna

Could all pop up.

Depending on a new Crosby winger it could be

Jokinen/X - Crosby - Jokinen/X

So moving Jokinen to the Bottom 6 after we obtain an elite winger for Sid. Okay, at least some reason to that. So then tell me why Dupuis and/or Bennett (12 game drought, 3 in 19 and 3 in 35, 0 on the year) should be in for Jokinen?

I can understand balance. Last year in playoffs I would have supported a Morrow-Jokinen-Dupuis 3rd line with a Bennett-Malkin-Neal 2nd line. But the fact is, we would need 2 Top 6 forwards for it to be justifiable for Jokinen to be taken out of the Top 6. I highly doubt that happens unless there is an absolute Max Talbot sized anomaly where a random bottom 6 wing clicks amazingly with Malkin-Neal.

Jokinen with Malkin-Neal means there is an additional center on the ice and someone that can keep up with the creativity of Malkin and Neal. Not to mention that all three are a shooting scoring threat or playmaker. It makes it difficult for a line to focus on any one of them exclusively. Bennett hasn't proven that if left alone he is a credible threat (admittingly, yet).

I would love to see a:

Bennett-Crosby-Neal
Kunitz-Malkin-Jokinen

Top 6. That is very intriguing.

 

[SEALBound]

Because most of his points have come on the PP or when he's on a different line than Malkin. 5-on-5 those two haven't played well together.

However, Jokinen-Malkin-Neal has played well together.

 

[Shockmaster]

So moving Jokinen to the Bottom 6 after we obtain an elite winger for Sid. Okay, at least some reason to that. So then tell me why Dupuis and/or Bennett (12 game drought, 3 in 19 and 3 in 35, 0 on the year) should be in Jokinen?

I can understand balance. Last year in playoffs I would have supported a Morrow-Jokinen-Dupuis 3rd line with a Bennett-Malkin-Neal 2nd line. But the fact is, we would be 2 Top 6 forwards for it to be justifiable for Jokinen to be taken out of the Top 6. I highly doubt that happens unless there is an absolute Max Talbot sized anomaly where a random bottom 6 wing clicks amazingly with Malkin-Neal.

Jokinen with Malkin-Neal means there is an additional center on the ice and someone that can keep up with the creativity of Malkin and Neal. Not to mention that all three are a shooting scoring threat or playmaker. It makes it difficult for a line to focus on any one of them exclusively. Bennett hasn't proven that if left alone he is a credible threat (admittingly, yet).

I would love to see a:

Bennett-Crosby-Neal
Kunitz-Malkin-Jokinen

Top 6. That is very intriguing.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that 5-on-5 Malkin and Jokinen have been very unproductive together. Many of Jokinen's points have come on the PP or when he was temporarily on another line. Yes, we all can read Jokinen's stat sheet. That doesn't mean he's a good fit with Malkin.

 

[Shockmaster]

However, Jokinen-Malkin-Neal has played well together.

They did for one preseason game.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Anyone else find it strange that the best Dupuis has looked in the past few weeks has been the shift after a PP w/ Sutter?

Or that it's bull **** that he's not good enough to be on either PP unit, yet can play with the best player in the world?

 

[IcedCapp]

Only in Pittsburgh, a supposed offensive juggernaut, is being a 3rd liner an insult

 

[Speaking Moistly]

So moving Jokinen to the Bottom 6 after we obtain an elite winger for Sid. Okay, at least some reason to that. So then tell me why Dupuis and/or Bennett (12 game drought, 3 in 19 and 3 in 35, 0 on the year) should be in for Jokinen?

I can understand balance. Last year in playoffs I would have supported a Morrow-Jokinen-Dupuis 3rd line with a Bennett-Malkin-Neal 2nd line. But the fact is, we would need 2 Top 6 forwards for it to be justifiable for Jokinen to be taken out of the Top 6. I highly doubt that happens unless there is an absolute Max Talbot sized anomaly where a random bottom 6 wing clicks amazingly with Malkin-Neal.

Jokinen with Malkin-Neal means there is an additional center on the ice and someone that can keep up with the creativity of Malkin and Neal. Not to mention that all three are a shooting scoring threat or playmaker. It makes it difficult for a line to focus on any one of them exclusively. Bennett hasn't proven that if left alone he is a credible threat (admittingly, yet).

I would love to see a:

Bennett-Crosby-Neal
Kunitz-Malkin-Jokinen

Top 6. That is very intriguing.

I think that could work, or Neal and Jokinen switched (I've said that before). I'm not one of the people wanting Jokinen out of the top 6, with the current roster I want it to be flexible depending on needs and performance. All of the wingers moving around in the top 9. Even with a new winger I would like to see that, actually.

TBH, after seeing JMN I'm not that impressed, that could change though. I want to see the line tried and then how it performs to be responded to.

I don't want Dupuis in the top 6 over Jokinen, I don't want Dupuis in the top 6 aside from the occasional shift if the line construction would benefit from it or injuries. Mainly injuries, no trust for Bylsma making it brief.

I think that depending on the winger for Crosby that Bennett could fit better than Jokinen, and I said that. It would depend on the winger, that's when balance comes into it.


Top 6 wingers
Bennett
Jokinen
Kunitz
Neal
X

That would be 5 and the lines would depend on the new winger, it would only take one new winger to put Jokinen legitimately on the 3rd line, IMO. Or one of the other top 6 wingers.

Anyone else find it strange that the best Dupuis has looked in the past few weeks has been the shift after a PP w/ Sutter?

Or that it's bull **** that he's not good enough to be on either PP unit, yet can play with the best player in the world?

No, he's with his own people of course he fits right in; he's playing at his speed. Every other top 6 player is on the PP, except for the stonehanded one, .... Bylsma is aware on some level.

 

[SEALBound]

You seem to be ignoring the fact that 5-on-5 Malkin and Jokinen have been very unproductive together. Many of Jokinen's points have come on the PP or when he was temporarily on another line. Yes, we all can read Jokinen's stat sheet. That doesn't mean he's a good fit with Malkin.

Producing winger any way you wanna shake it. Mostly without Neal has he been on Malkins line. When all of them together, they have shown some good play.

Any way you wanna justify it, putting our most productive winger on the 3rd line is a bad move. Why not put Malkin on the third line? Or Sid? Or Kunitz?

The Anti-Jokinen movement here is sickening.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Producing winger any way you wanna shake it. Mostly without Neal has he been on Malkins line. When all of them together, they have shown some good play.

Any way you wanna justify it, putting our most productive winger on the 3rd line is a bad move. Why not put Malkin on the third line? Or Sid? Or Kunitz?

The Anti-Jokinen movement here is sickening.

nobody wants to put Kunitz on the third line.

You seem to take it as a complete insult to want a guy on the third line. I want him there because I believe that's where he would most help the team. In a vacuum, he is a better player than the guys I want in the top 6 in his place. I want to see lines that actually compliment each other. Jokinen does not properly compliment his line right now. I am in no way anti-Jokinen. But I absolutely think the best version of our team would have him on the third line. I don't mean that as an insult to Jussi Jokinen. In my opinion, we would get the most value out of both Jussi and Dupuis playing together on the third line.

Geno doesn't need the best player on his wing; he needs someone to fill a role that he has had every time he's looked like the best player in the world. Jokinen is better than our other options for that position in every way except for the one thing the line needs the most. It just doesn't let any of the guys on the line play to their potential because they just don't compliment each other very well. Any pair of the three would work well together. But all three together forces one of them into a role that they really shouldn't be playing. None of those guys should be doing the lion's share of the dirty work. Its a waste of their talents. They should be finding openings in the defense or getting into position to get a puck that has been chipped out of the corner. Instead, one of our most talented players is constantly forced to play the role of Max Talbot. Except none of them are as good as Max Talbot was at it.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Producing winger any way you wanna shake it. Mostly without Neal has he been on Malkins line. When all of them together, they have shown some good play.

Any way you wanna justify it, putting our most productive winger on the 3rd line is a bad move. Why not put Malkin on the third line? Or Sid? Or Kunitz?

The Anti-Jokinen movement here is sickening.

It's not an "Anti-Jokinen movement" to say he should play with Suptter and Dupuis, when he's played extremely well with them and has gotten points with them.

If he was getting all his points at ES and with Malkin, then moving him off that line wouldn't make sense, but he isn't.

 

[Shockmaster]

nobody wants to put Kunitz on the third line.

You seem to take it as a complete insult to want a guy on the third line. I want him there because I believe that's where he would most help the team. In a vacuum, he is a better player than the guys I want in the top 6 in his place. I want to see lines that actually compliment each other. Jokinen does not properly compliment his line right now. I am in no way anti-Jokinen. But I absolutely think the best version of our team would have him on the third line. I don't mean that as an insult to Jussi Jokinen. In my opinion, we would get the most value out of both Jussi and Dupuis playing together on the third line.

Geno doesn't need the best player on his wing; he needs someone to fill a role that he has had every time he's looked like the best player in the world. Jokinen is better than our other options for that position in every way except for the one thing the line needs the most. It just doesn't let any of the guys on the line play to their potential because they just don't compliment each other very well. Any pair of the three would work well together. But all three together forces one of them into a role that they really shouldn't be playing. None of those guys should be doing the lion's share of the dirty work. Its a waste of their talents. They should be finding openings in the defense or getting into position to get a puck that has been chipped out of the corner. Instead, one of our most talented players is constantly forced to play the role of Max Talbot. Except none of them are as good as Max Talbot was at it.

In regards to the bolded, I'm not sure we should be holding our breath for another top 6 forward this year. Unless Shero can find a team to hold onto the salary, I think the only deadline acquisition will be a third-line winger. One of Dupuis or Jokinen would have to stay in the top 6.

As I've stated before, I'd like to see Bennett play with Crosby and Kunitz. Bennett isn't going to get better playing with third liners that can't take advantage of his play making abilities. I'd put Jokinen on Sutter's line since a) they've played together before, b) more balanced scoring, and c) Jokinen and Malkin just haven't meshed 5-on-5. That leaves Dupuis on Malkin's LW, but at least all he'd have to do is be the third wheel on that line. I'm not sure how effective Dupuis would be with Malkin since those two haven't played together very often, but considering Jokinen isn't play well with Malkin they might as well try something different.

 

[Ogrezilla]

In regards to the bolded, I'm not sure we should be holding our breath for another top 6 forward this year. Unless Shero can find a team to hold onto the salary, I think the only deadline acquisition will be a third-line winger. One of Dupuis or Jokinen would have to stay in the top 6.

As I've stated before, I'd like to see Bennett play with Crosby and Kunitz. Bennett isn't going to get better playing with third liners that can't take advantage of his play making abilities. I'd put Jokinen on Sutter's line since a) they've played together before, b) more balanced scoring, and c) Jokinen and Malkin just haven't meshed 5-on-5. That leaves Dupuis on Malkin's LW, but at least all he'd have to do is be the third wheel on that line. I'm not sure how effective Dupuis would be with Malkin since those two haven't played together very often, but considering Jokinen isn't play well with Malkin they might as well try something different.

I would throw Megna with Geno and Neal. He is the worst of our top 6 options in a vacuum, but he is good at exactly what they need.

 

[JackFr]

I have a suggestion for all of you. Turn on NHL 14, go into edit lines, and do this:

Jokinen - Crosby - Bennett
Kunitz - Malkin - Neal
Kobasew - Sutter - Dupuis
D'Agostini - Vitale - Megna

Then play a few games and pretend they're a real lineup adjustment. Really lightened my mood.

 

[MrBurghundy]

I have a suggestion for all of you. Turn on NHL 14, go into edit lines, and do this:

Jokinen - Crosby - Bennett
Kunitz - Malkin - Neal
Kobasew - Sutter - Dupuis
D'Agostini - Vitale - Megna

Then play a few games and pretend they're a real lineup adjustment. Really lightened my mood.

If I was playing NHL 14 my team would look a lot different than that. Some of those players wouldn't even be on the team.

 

[NatureBoy]

Bylsma is too stubborn to try something else, I don´t know why. Who would it hurt to try something like this?

Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
Jokinen-Crosby-Bennett
Dupuis-Sutter-Megna
Glass-Vitale-Adams/Kobasew/D´Agostini/Engelland

Letang-Despres (until Scuderi gets back)
Martin-Orpik
Maata-Bortuzzo
Engelland

Niskanen is just a waste of cap space and a roster spot!

 

[PensFutures]

Looks like BB is getting a look on Sids RW tonight. Dupuis to Malkins LW. Gibbons on Sutters RW. I like it.