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Is There a Case For Kucherov > Ovechkin?

Not yet.

However, Kucherov can dethrone Ovechkin in the future.
This will happen as soon as Kucherov wins 3 more Harts, 2 Smythes and breaks the Mogilny's regular season goal-scoring record for Russians twice in a row.
 
Danarqhy said:
Simple question. Is there :

Insane Hockey IQ
Better playoffs production
Multiple cups and finals appearances

Points for ovechking:

The GOATscorer potentially.
Better peak.
Better name recognition/flashier player
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Danarqhy said:
Points in favor of Kuch:

Insane Hockey IQ
Better playoffs production
Multiple cups and finals appearances

Points for ovechking:

The GOATscorer potentially.
Better peak.
Better name recognition/flashier player
Click to expand...
Of the three reasons you gave for Kucherov, 2 aren't even relevant/quantifiable.
Hockey IQ is one of those "I know it when I see it" type of things. It means nothing as a point thrown out there. And Cups should never be used to compare individual achievements. They're a nice bonus on a CV.

Ovechkin's goal-scoring alone puts him in rarefied air. For Kucherov, I'm still wondering if he beats Fedorov in the discussion for Best Russian. He probably does (that Selke does a lot for Feds). But that it's a question at all doesn't lend much weight to Kuch being better than Ovie.
 
His team hasn't had some massive success over Ovi nor does he have a better personal trophy case over Ovi nor does he have any NHL records like Ovi.

He needs 2 more cups and at least one more massive year where he wins a ton of awards to have a case over Ovi, even then it's not a guaranteed case either.

Ovechkin played with 1 borderline HOF his career (Backstrom), Kuch played with 3 locks and Point has good odds if he keeps up his play into his 30s.

To supplant Ovi, it needs to be clear.
 
Yes, I've long thought Kucherov is a better player than Ovechkin.

Ovechkin is a great goal scorer and he fully deserves the record he's gonna break soon.

But....one way I look at the comparison is that Kucherov is a better playmaker than Ovechkin is a goal-scorer; and also Kucherov is a better goal-scorer than Ovechkin is a playmaker.
 
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Staniowski said:
Yes, I've long thought Kucherov is a better player than Ovechkin.

Ovechkin is a great goal scorer and he fully deserves the record he's gonna break soon.

But....one way I look at the comparison is that Kucherov is a better playmaker than Ovechkin is a goal-scorer; and also Kucherov is a better goal-scorer than Ovechkin is a playmaker.
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You think kucherov is arguably the best playmaker of all time?
 
Nathaniel said:
You think kucherov is arguably the best playmaker of all time?
Click to expand...
No, not necessarily, but that's not what I said. He doesn't need to be the best playmaker ever to be better than Ovechkin's goal-scoring.

Kucherov's one-timer passes - his greatest skill - is probably the best ever. The only competition for those type of passes are Lemieux, and maybe Makarov.
 
crowi said:
Greatest goal scorer of all time > some random dude with no records at all, and certainly not as meaningful.
Click to expand...

No records for now since Rantanen broke his empty net points record. But Kucherov still has time to take it back.
 
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Gerulaitis said:
Oh please. Ovechkin would make the top 100 all-time
Click to expand...
Look at the timestamp of the quote youa re referencing that's basically one month into the 22-23 season and no he wasn't a top 100 guy at the time the post referenced.

He was referencing Kuch not Ovi.
 
Staniowski said:
No, not necessarily, but that's not what I said. He doesn't need to be the best playmaker ever to be better than Ovechkin's goal-scoring.

Kucherov's one-timer passes - his greatest skill - is probably the best ever. The only competition for those type of passes are Lemieux, and maybe Makarov.
Click to expand...

I agree he doesn’t have to be the best because Gretzky is a better playmaker than anyone is a goal scorer, but he’s only led the league in assists twice (tied in one), and only led in assists per game once. I could see him being a top 10ish playmaker but I think it’s a stretch to say he’s a better playmaker than Ovechkin is a goal scorer.

I still think an argument could be made for Kucherov to be a better all around offensive player, at least outside of Ovechkin’s peak, but Ovechkin was also a much better play driver his first 5-6 years.
 
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Regal said:
I agree he doesn’t have to be the best because Gretzky is a better playmaker than anyone is a goal scorer, but he’s only led the league in assists twice (tied in one), and only led in assists per game once. I could see him being a top 10ish playmaker but I think it’s a stretch to say he’s a better playmaker than Ovechkin is a goal scorer.

I still think an argument could be made for Kucherov to be a better all around offensive player, at least outside of Ovechkin’s peak, but Ovechkin was also a much better play driver his first 5-6 years.
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If Kucherov wins his 3rd Art Ross, and including their playoff primes and peaks, is Ovechkin even decisively the better offensive player anymore? Obviously still better overall from 2007-10, but I’m not sure it’s by much anymore.
 
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authentic said:
If Kucherov wins his 3rd Art Ross, and including their playoff primes and peaks, is Ovechkin even decisively the better offensive player anymore? Obviously still better overall from 2007-10, but I’m not sure it’s by much anymore.
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I wouldn’t say decisively in terms of overall offensive production, no, but I probably wouldn’t say Kucherov is ahead either. Maybe a bit in terms of points relative to the league, but probably not if A) Ovechkin played a full 09-10 and B) Ovechkin had the same linemate support in ‘08.
 
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wetcoast said:
Look at the timestamp of the quote youa re referencing that's basically one month into the 22-23 season and no he wasn't a top 100 guy at the time the post referenced.

He was referencing Kuch not Ovi.
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Well that joke went right over your head, didn't it.
 
It's hard to say. Kucherov's scoring exploded as league sv% also dropped considerably. But he didn't play long enough in his prime in the lower scoring era to say what his peak would have been. Ovi obviously hit 100 several times in the lowest scoring era of the NHL while also being a guy to consistently hit 50 when others couldn't hit 40.

From 05-06 Ovi hit 50 7 times and 49 one more. There were only 20 50 goal seasons in that span and Kovalchuk and Heatley each has 2 in the initial boost in PP chances post lockout. The rest except Stamkos were one-offs. Cutting out 05-06 takes 5 of those 50 goal seasons away and makes Stamkos the only guy other than Ovy to do it more than once.

That's just insane dominance.

I feel like in the high scoring era they've been a lot more generous with awarding secondary assists. In the Canadian division year for example McDavid and Draisatl got assists on the Habs scoring an own goal when it's supposed to go to the last Oilers player who touched the puck unassisted. But Kucherov has only had one season being head and shoulders above everyone else and that was 2018-19.

So it depends on if you value goals or points more. Not to mention that Kucherov led the playoffs in scoring twice and didn't win a Conn Smythe because of just how dominant other positions on his team are. He can play as offensively as he does as one of the worst defensive forwards in the league because he has Hedman and Vas behind him.

I think the entire between lockout era is going to get heavily underrated because of it being the golden age of goaltending. Expanding to 36 teams is going to let tons of new guys get 1200+ career points the way the 70/80's's expansions and WHA merger took decades to catch up to the actual level of world class talent in hockey.
 
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Danarqhy said:
Simple question. Is there a case to be made that Nikita Kucherov is the overall better player than Alex Ovechkin? We're talking about career up until Kuchverov's age (29) and projection until they both retire. Will Kucherov be looked on as the better player between the two once they are both out of the league?

Points in favor of Kuch:

Insane Hockey IQ
Better playoffs production
Multiple cups and finals appearances

Points for ovechking:

The GOATscorer potentially.
Better peak.
Better name recognition/flashier player
Click to expand...
Not a chance in hell...and I'm a lightning fan. Ovie is the best goal scorer of all-time...Kuch will never catch Gretz in assists so there's no comp.
 
Staniowski said:
Yes, I've long thought Kucherov is a better player than Ovechkin.

Ovechkin is a great goal scorer and he fully deserves the record he's gonna break soon.

But....one way I look at the comparison is that Kucherov is a better playmaker than Ovechkin is a goal-scorer; and also Kucherov is a better goal-scorer than Ovechkin is a playmaker.
Click to expand...

Kucherov being a better playmaker than Ovechkin is a goal scorer would imply that he is the best playmaker of all-time, which he certainly is not.

Kucherov is building an impressive resume, but I don’t think people will remember him as much as Ovechkin in 50 years.
 
authentic said:
If Kucherov wins his 3rd Art Ross, and including their playoff primes and peaks, is Ovechkin even decisively the better offensive player anymore? Obviously still better overall from 2007-10, but I’m not sure it’s by much anymore.
Click to expand...
Yes. Kucherov just needs to lead the league in assists 7 more times to catch up to Ovi ...
 
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