Is the Leafs Medical Department incompetent?

[budzz]

I know this is discussed a bit in other threads, but it is an honest question that needs to be considered.

As I've mentioned before and many others have, we all realize that the team does not "need" to inform of any injuries to their players. The usual "upper/lower body, day-to-day" is common to many teams.

But while they have a right to disclose only what they want to disclose, the die hard fan base, including ticket buyers, sponsors, and hundreds of interested parties financially responsible for the teams success deserve at least some transparency. This management group is almost mocking in their regular standard responses, it seems more so than other teams. It's almost like their smirking and saying "we know better than anyone, quit asking, we're the best, run along now".

The injury to Matthews is obviously exhibit A. Shrouded in mystery, almost a half season in. Supposedly "started in training camp" or "flared up in training camp". Mysterious trip to Germany that apparently solved nothing, when we are supposed to be world class best of everything filthy rich. Yet their Star player, in fact the center of the entire Hockey program "doesn't know if it will get better I hope so". Really? That's all you guys got? This is mind boggling and staggeringly poor asset management to me. Maybe MGMT HAS actually suggested a surgical plan and Matty said no? Silly speculation on my part with no evidence but it wouldn't be the first time a player and team disagreed, and since nobody has any info they deserve any random speculation.

This is not the only exhibit though. Hakenpaa... signed as injured, rehabbed, joined the team, then suddenly out again for a "minor procedure". Where's the medical team months ago? SMH. Another odd situation. There have been multiple other "day to days" this year that turned into weeks and weeks (McCabe, Knies McMann). And it seems like more injury drama and mystery than most other teams in general. Almost any medical info from this group has to be taken with a grain of salt.

Am I just being cranky about my team? Maybe. I just expect a bit more from the team that is ranked THE most valuable NHL team in the League, and the fan base gets crumbs and excuses over and over.

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[The Shadow]

You might be right.

This wouldn’t be the first time teams have had major issues with injuries and medical personnel

 

[Evilhomer]

I know this is discussed a bit in other threads, but it is an honest question that needs to be considered.

As I've mentioned before and many others have, we all realize that the team does not "need" to inform of any injuries to their players. The usual "upper/lower body, day-to-day" is common to many teams.

But while they have a right to disclose only what they want to disclose, the die hard fan base, including ticket buyers, sponsors, and hundreds of interested parties financially responsible for the teams success deserve at least some transparency. This management group is almost mocking in their regular standard responses, it seems more so than other teams. It's almost like their smirking and saying "we know better than anyone, quit asking, we're the best, run along now".

The injury to Matthews is obviously exhibit A. Shrouded in mystery, almost a half season in. Supposedly "started in training camp" or "flared up in training camp". Mysterious trip to Germany that apparently solved nothing, when we are supposed to be world class best of everything filthy rich. Yet their Star player, in fact the center of the entire Hockey program "doesn't know if it will get better I hope so". Really? That's all you guys got? This is mind boggling and staggeringly poor asset management to me. Maybe MGMT HAS actually suggested a surgical plan and Matty said no? Silly speculation on my part with no evidence but it wouldn't be the first time a player and team disagreed, and since nobody has any info they deserve any random speculation.

This is not the only exhibit though. Hakenpaa... signed as injured, rehabbed, joined the team, then suddenly out again for a "minor procedure". Where's the medical team months ago? SMH. Another odd situation. There have been multiple other "day to days" this year that turned into weeks and weeks (McCabe, Knies McMann). And it seems like more injury drama and mystery than most other teams in general. Almost any medical info from this group has to be taken with a grain of salt.

Am I just being cranky about my team? Maybe. I just expect a bit more from the team that is ranked THE most valuable NHL team in the League, and the fan base gets crumbs and excuses over and over.

It isn't a medical team issue. It's the team's infantile PR "strategy".

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

There's no way to tell whether the players are getting bad advice or getting good advice and then ignoring it, or how much input management/coaches have. But the GM & head office have the final say in hiring team doctors and placing players on IR so it's ultimately on Shanahan to fix this problem that's seemingly been going on for years.

 

[Stephen]

Don’t think we would have the sophistication to comment on the quality of medical care he’s getting. The problem is just the messaging from a PR perspective. They give us daily updates, it’s always downplaying the severity with a side of bad news, there’s no timetable and they won’t say what it is. It’s just an annoying combination of constant messaging with no transparency. So it just creates speculation, mistrust, and anxiety.

The other thing I guess you could question is when this injury actually happened and whether the summer was used to address the problem.

 

[francis246]

There’s nothing wrong with the leafs medical staff. All these players get second or third opinions.

Only issue if there is one is the PR around it.

Also we as fans are not entitled to any medical information. There’s literal laws that protect medical information, so it doesn’t matter if we dump money into the organization, we aren’t owed an explanation for injury.

 

[Amadeus]

They’ve got the best of the lot.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Fake news

 

[Apex Predator]

There’s nothing wrong with the leafs medical staff. All these players get second or third opinions.

Only issue if there is one is the PR around it.

Also we as fans are not entitled to any medical information. There’s literal laws that protect medical information, so it doesn’t matter if we dump money into the organization, we aren’t owed an explanation for injury.

Someone tell the NFL that as they must let everyone know what injury they’re dealing with.

 

[thewave]

We have the best. One issue is they do have is managing minutes before playoffs. They were cranking 30mins a night out of Marner with 10 games in the season. So insane

 

[francis246]

Someone tell the NFL that as they must let everyone know what injury they’re dealing with.

If the NFLPA and the players want to do that, it’s their right. The NHL players/teams don’t want to, that is also well within their right. The players in the NFL waived their right due to the money that fantasy football is providing the league. Not sure fantasy hockey is doing the same for the NHL.

 

[francis246]

I know this is discussed a bit in other threads, but it is an honest question that needs to be considered.

As I've mentioned before and many others have, we all realize that the team does not "need" to inform of any injuries to their players. The usual "upper/lower body, day-to-day" is common to many teams.

But while they have a right to disclose only what they want to disclose, the die hard fan base, including ticket buyers, sponsors, and hundreds of interested parties financially responsible for the teams success deserve at least some transparency. This management group is almost mocking in their regular standard responses, it seems more so than other teams. It's almost like their smirking and saying "we know better than anyone, quit asking, we're the best, run along now".

The injury to Matthews is obviously exhibit A. Shrouded in mystery, almost a half season in. Supposedly "started in training camp" or "flared up in training camp". Mysterious trip to Germany that apparently solved nothing, when we are supposed to be world class best of everything filthy rich. Yet their Star player, in fact the center of the entire Hockey program "doesn't know if it will get better I hope so". Really? That's all you guys got? This is mind boggling and staggeringly poor asset management to me. Maybe MGMT HAS actually suggested a surgical plan and Matty said no? Silly speculation on my part with no evidence but it wouldn't be the first time a player and team disagreed, and since nobody has any info they deserve any random speculation.

This is not the only exhibit though. Hakenpaa... signed as injured, rehabbed, joined the team, then suddenly out again for a "minor procedure". Where's the medical team months ago? SMH. Another odd situation. There have been multiple other "day to days" this year that turned into weeks and weeks (McCabe, Knies McMann). And it seems like more injury drama and mystery than most other teams in general. Almost any medical info from this group has to be taken with a grain of salt.

Am I just being cranky about my team? Maybe. I just expect a bit more from the team that is ranked THE most valuable NHL team in the League, and the fan base gets crumbs and excuses over and over.

Additionally I might add, part of it is most likely to avoid having the league make an example of them if they try and go the Kucherov route. If you come out and say the Matthews injury, you’ll have a ton of reporters and people from the league using previous recovery times from other players to compare and contrast whether Toronto’s use of LTIR is appropriate. I’m guessing that is the main reason for not being one hundred percent truth. Keep the league off their radar.

 

[TopCheeseShotta]

Probably.

But moreso for me, the Sports Psychology department.

((((INCOMING LONG RANT))))

Let's be honest. The mental side of the game has been lost on this core from the jump. There's been something in the water here for decades, to say the least - but in the last 8 years, there's no denying there's also been trauma.
Heart-wrenching losses that would naturally bring about disbelief, a lack of confidence and likely - deep-rooted emotional pain and anxiety. Yet, our rich-azz team hasn't been able to connect the dots to get these men the very best in life coaches and mental science guys to mold their mindframes - as they keep running up against the same roadblocks, the same Goliiaths, the same beast within that needs slaying - and folding in crunchtime. It's not just the challenge of Game 7s, but other crucial moments --> in game, in season, in rivalries, in must wins of all kinds all over the ice.

I wanna scream this from the rooftops joined by thousands of Leaf fans - until those running the team get it. We've all been thru it and judging from the boards, we don't think Mitch can do it, that JT can do it, that Auston can do it. Well - imagine them. I imagine they also believe deep down they can't do it either. And it's rinse repeat from there. You begin to tell yourself the money's good enuff.. the games in Jan don't matter.. maybe even that it's nice to avoid the brutal slog that is a deeper run in the NHL playoffs. It's too hard. It's too much. I'm still a 'star', God, etc.....

So ya - be better Sports Psychology. Y'all need to be strung up in the town square for the gross negligence you've exhibited on the job, whoever you charlatans are.

 

[Aashir Mallik]

There’s nothing wrong with the leafs medical staff. All these players get second or third opinions.

Only issue if there is one is the PR around it.

Also we as fans are not entitled to any medical information. There’s literal laws that protect medical information, so it doesn’t matter if we dump money into the organization, we aren’t owed an explanation for injury.

I don't really want information, just give me an accurate and transparent timeline

if he's out for 2 weeks, say week to week
if he's out for 2 months say month to month
if it's longer just tell us it's going to be a while

If we are told UBI or LBI i'd be ecstatic but don't even need that, all I want is a proper vision on when we can see him return.

hearing it's getting better everyday from the team and then having AM come out and say "Idk we will see how it goes" to if he gets over the injury is sending mixed signals. Shut him down and communicate that to us or start playing him and forget about the injury. I don't like this 50/50 of taking both roads

We deserve that much IMO.

 

[ACC1224]

I don't really want information, just give me an accurate and transparent timeline

if he's out for 2 weeks, say week to week
if he's out for 2 months say month to month
if it's longer just tell us it's going to be a while

If we are told UBI or LBI i'd be ecstatic but don't even need that, all I want is a proper vision on when we can see him return.

hearing it's getting better everyday from the team and then having AM come out and say "Idk we will see how it goes" to if he gets over the injury is sending mixed signals. Shut him down and communicate that to us or start playing him and forget about the injury. I don't like this 50/50 of taking both roads

We deserve that much IMO.

I believe he’s ’day to day’.

 

[francis246]

I don't really want information, just give me an accurate and transparent timeline

if he's out for 2 weeks, say week to week
if he's out for 2 months say month to month
if it's longer just tell us it's going to be a while

If we are told UBI or LBI i'd be ecstatic but don't even need that, all I want is a proper vision on when we can see him return.

hearing it's getting better everyday from the team and then having AM come out and say "Idk we will see how it goes" to if he gets over the injury is sending mixed signals. Shut him down and communicate that to us or start playing him and forget about the injury. I don't like this 50/50 of taking both roads

We deserve that much IMO.

Again, what does it matter? I honestly think people are making this a bigger deal than it needs to be. Who cares at the end of the day? it’s not gonna make a single difference in anything lol. It’s not the leafs job to manage your anxiety around the Matthews injury. As harsh as it is to say, they have a reason they are doing things the way they are and it’s probably related to the cap gymnastics they need to do and LTIR stuff.

 

[thewave]

Again, what does it matter? I honestly think people are making this a bigger deal than it needs to be. Who cares at the end of the day? it’s not gonna make a single difference in anything lol. It’s not the leafs job to manage your anxiety around the Matthews injury. As harsh as it is to say, they have a reason they are doing things the way they are and it’s probably related to the cap gymnastics they need to do and LTIR stuff.

There are many things. Insurance, Cap, Trade value, Competitive advantage etc to not be fully transparent.

I just say shut him down for the cap. I think he should fix whatever is broken and get it over with because if we just signed a guy to 4 years of having a back or hip condition under management of doctors. What a waste AKA the new Lupul

 

[francis246]

There are many things. Insurance, Cap, Trade value, Competitive advantage etc to not be fully transparent.

I just say shut him down for the cap. I think he should fix whatever is broken and get it over with because if we just signed a guy to 4 years of having a back or hip condition under management of doctors. What a waste AKA the new Lupul

Agreed, I think it’s best for him to get it fixed and then come back healthy. I wonder if his injury from the playoffs lingered into this season. Or if they were seperate injuries. It could also be a soft tissue issue which is a little harder to deal with.

 

[AlienWorkShop]

So, do you want Matthews to get more targeted cross-checks, like he received against Buffalo?

 

[Cams]

There are many things. Insurance, Cap, Trade value, Competitive advantage etc to not be fully transparent.

I just say shut him down for the cap. I think he should fix whatever is broken and get it over with because if we just signed a guy to 4 years of having a back or hip condition under management of doctors. What a waste AKA the new Lupul

I have a suspicion they may have considered it.......but maybe figure that a review from the league (don't they have the right to review due to potential cap circumvention - see Kucherov/Hossa/etc.) may not go in their favour. Just my own personal thoughts on it. They sure could use any cap relief, esp for a contract of that value, and must have investigated using whatever means they can to help the team.

 

[dubplatepressure]

Have you considered that the day-to-day injuries that stretched to weeks were actually week to week injuries that the medical team was competent enough to have the potential to reduce to day-to-day status? Nothing I've seen suggests that this is competence on the medical team side. Players get injured all the time. Not to mention if a player is day-to-day other teams have to factor them into their game plan, week to week not as much so. Not as impactful for bottom-6 players buy guys like Mathews definitely.

 

[Nineteen67]

This gives them something they can control. Let them have one victory.

 

[Nineteen67]

There are many things. Insurance, Cap, Trade value, Competitive advantage etc to not be fully transparent.

I just say shut him down for the cap. I think he should fix whatever is broken and get it over with because if we just signed a guy to 4 years of having a back or hip condition under management of doctors. What a waste AKA the new Lupul

If rest is the answer, that’s easy , they’d rest him until it’s better. But if they’re trying to get through the season and have surgery in the off-season, I say don’t waste time and do the surgery now.

 

[GoonieFace]

So, do you want Matthews to get more targeted cross-checks, like he received against Buffalo?

Or he was cross checked because he was in front of the net, which happens all the time. Just unfortunate where it got him. I don’t think it was targeted.

 

[banks]

What bonkers stuff is this??

The Leafs have the best medical staff of any team in hockey. Just because they don't announce every detail to randos like us doesn't mean they don't know what they're doing.

The NHL has seen PIT misdiagnose Crosby with a neck fracture when it was a soft tissue thing in 2012. And Buffalo fought with their star captain Eichel over a medical procedure.

Having some secrecy about Matthews' injury is nothing like those things. Just wait it out. They have no need to tell us anything. And I'm sure they're handling it properly.