Is the expense of playing hockey exaggerated?

[Killion]

I played Little League baseball throughout my childhood for less than the cost of a single set of goaltending gear (which would need to be updated as I grew), so...no. It was absolutely out of reach for a family like mine.

Indeed. The costs in the States with the exception of Minnesota & a few other mid-western stops have always been high. Pockets in places like Erie PA, smaller communities where it was both affordable & popular but if you were big city like Pittsburgh, Chicago etc... seriously upscale boutique & pricey. The numbers, costs I see today coming out of places like California, Arizona, North Carolina, NY, MI, PA & even Minnesota absolutely insane. $10K per season cheap if your kids on a "Travel Team", more like $20K. And of course reflected in the Draft every year, most US born players from upper-middle class backgrounds since the 80's.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I look at what hockey costs during the teenage years and I cant figure out how there isnt a better way? I mean, the talent pool is just morphing into typical WASP sterotypes. I really wonder how necessary the travel tournies are??

As @Canadiens1958 says above, travel tournaments are largely a waste of resources. Yes you get an opportunity to play against top competition, but that comes at an enormous cost to the program and to the players involved.

IMO, travel is probably the single #1 problem afflicting the hockey development pipeline. Too many leagues feel like they have to bus kids up to Toronto every year in order to be relevant, rather than becoming relevant by simply giving their players good instruction and a lot of ice time.

 

[SCBlueLiner]

My kid plays AAA Midget and we will be all-in at about $10,000 this year. That figure includes ice fees and all travel/hotel expenses. Keep in mind, he is playing the most competitive level of hockey for his age group in the USA. This season he has played teams from all corners of the country, Alaska to Tampa, Arizona to New Jersey, and all points in between. The biggest cost to this level of hockey is the travel expense, actually, let me rephrase that, the actual team fees are just under $6,000 for the year and he has practice 3 times a week and a game schedule of about 65 games. So the most expensive part isn't the travel, it's the travel costs that push the expense to the extreme ends. There are other AAA teams that will run you $15k/year.

What people need to understand is that this is not the norm for hockey. This is the top end fringe. We could have said 'no' to AAA and he could have played local high school hockey for about $3500 all-in. It was our choice to commit to spending what we are on the sport. This is where hockey gets the bad rap. People hear about the $10k price tag, and make the generalization the hockey is an overly expensive sport and that price level applies to everybody. The reality is that there are various price ranges depending on the age/level you are playing. I can tell you that the local costs for entry level Mites/Learn to Skate is $50 for the season with free equipment rental. Compared to paying $150 for an 8 week soccer season at the local club, hockey is a bargain.

Does the system need to find a way to be cheaper? Absolutely. USA Hockey has created a monster, or let the monster get out of the cage, when it comes to Tier 1 AAA hockey. My friends in Minnesota pay a $300 activity fee for their kids to play high school hockey. That's it. $300 and some equipment costs, and that state pumps out the best young players in the country in high volumes. At the youth level they were paying about $2,000 all-in for a season. It's not possible for the rest of the country to do what they do because you need large concentrations of players to provide competition, but there is no reason that Michigan, Chicago, St. Louis, New York, and New England should not have similar high school models and abandoned the Tier 1 model. Everybody would be better off in the long run.

Does it bother me to drop this kind of money on a sport? Sometimes 'yes', sometimes 'no'. I mean, what else am I going to do with the money? I can always make more money, but my kid is only going to be 16 once in his life, then it is over. So yeah, for the memories, it is worth it. My other friends go to Disneyland and trips to Mexico. We spend our "vacation money" on hockey trips. For almost every hockey family I know hockey isn't just some activity, it's a lifestyle. The thing is, I know people whose kids wrestle, it's the same way. Play basketball, it's a lifestyle. Baseball, same thing. You can say it is a hockey thing, it's not, it's a youth sports thing. My buddy whose kid wrestles spends a comparable amount of money and travel, tournaments, and especially the wrestling academy where he trains. Other friends that drop a good amount of change on AAU basketball. You want your eyes to really pop? Have your daughter start gymnastics, or dance.

What I find where I live is the kids who play sports play sports. It's the same kids that play football, that play basketball, and baseball, and hockey, and soccer, and golf, etc. The kids who are active in sports play sports, the other 50% of kids in the school don't do a dang thing. It doesn't matter what the cost is, their parents just aren't involved or are selfish with their time, and aren't going to sign their kids up to do anything, even the free local rec baseball league.

 

[Burke the Legend]

It's a waste to put your kid on anything but municipal house league or a high school team unless he/she is a clear standout. As in he/she being insanely skilled/big and moved up 2 years at an early age and still excelling. The most important the kid will get out of hockey is experiencing the comraderie of it. Through house league or a high school league he/she will have the opportunity learn the sport well enough to mix in any half decent beer league later. That fun and friends/network aspect of that is the real gift for your child he/she can actually use and derive social/physical enjoyment and personal advancement from that carries into adulthood. You don't need to have played in an expensive double letter program to get that.

If people want to spend $5000 a year to buy little Johnny's way onto an inter city team as a 3rd liner, then act like he's got a shot at the show if you only scream at that peewee coach enough about powerplay time then that's their business although it's borderline child abuse too.

 

[S E P H]

Many cite the high cost and inaccessibility of hockey as a reason for low participation rates. The general consensus is the sport is cost prohibitive for families that aren't at minimum middle-class. I'm lower middle class, began playing hockey as an adult and haven't felt its unreasonably costly. Equipment certainly isn't cheap, but a patient and attentive shopper can find heavily discounted equipment; drop-in sessions are generally $10-$15USD. When I visit Canada they're generally less expensive.

Obviously I haven't experienced the game at youth level, so I'm ignorant to expenses incurred. Other than equipment and rink time, what makes make hockey cost-prohibitive in comparison to other popular N.A sports?

It is when you see the expenses people will spend on golf. However, having to buy new equipment every 3 or so years due to your kids growth spurt is an understandable complaint.

What hockey has is a grass root problem due to a lack of available rinks or national attention in regards to marketing. Both, you can say come from a lack of funds.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Even if hockey isn't as expensive as is stated by many provided that you do a smart job comparison shopping, the fact of the matter is that it's still more costly than any other popular sport and has the added issue of having significantly more hoops to jump through to schedule games and practices.

I don't think anyone would deny that at the very least it's far easier to be a baseball or basketball or soccer parent than a hockey parent unless you jump all the way up to traveling teams for kids/parents that have pro career ambitions.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Discount shopping is only going to go just so far, though. An average family has 2-3 kids. Let’s say you really do your homework and manage to outfit each kid for $250 (unlikely but let’s just say). That’s still $500-750 worth of equipment on the low end. Then the aforementioned $750 a year per kid in ice time, if they’re only getting them one day of puck time a week. You’re in for $1500 before we even talk about league fees.

Most people flat-out don’t have that kind of money for children’s sports. It’s an easy “no” for a lower middle class family, especially once they realize they can buy a $10 soccer ball and let the kids play in the park for free until they drop.

Rarely are they twins or triplets. So quality is a consideration when it comes to hand-me-downs. Also very few know how to care for equipment.

 

[superdeluxe]

The cost of ice time and everything associated with that (insurance etc). That doesn't include equipment that will be outgrown every year. Yeah its expensive.

 

[Canadiens1958]

not in Nashville. Adult leagues don't usually start til close to mid night. High school aged games start between 9 and 10:30. Main arena has very few open days a week as it's either got a game or a concert.

Weekdays youngsters go to school during the day, adults work. Arenas have ice time mornings thru mid after noon. You can get funding for pre-school learn to skate programs from various sources. Inventory of skates from manufacturers as testers or discontinued lines.

 

[cutchemist42]

What decade did you grow up in (in Winnipeg?) cc?..... If were talking 70's or 80's (and beyond) then yes the costs did begin to escalate at about that time at the amateur levels.... though certainly there were programs & leagues available for those of all economic levels, usually integrated whereby on any given team you'd have low to upper income level kids, sometimes teams comprised exclusively of inner city children & so on (there were & still are territorial concerns, rules players have to adhere to, living in whatever area, Borough & so forth).... "Boys Clubs" & so on with teams entered in city wide rep leagues, Church Leagues, some cities in Canada with school leagues etc.... As for the cost of equipment, there were back in the day every fall "Equipment Exchange Sales" held at Churches, in schools & community centers & so on even in upper-middle class areas where you could buy skates-gloves-pads etc etc etc, kids growing out of, barely used & for next to nothing. By the late 60's early 70's however, the rise of "consumerism", brand status, hit the game of hockey like a Tsunami.

Im 30ish....so when I wanted to get back into it as a teen was late 90s/early 00s. I stopped when I was 10.

I didnt get back into full equipment as a goalie until about 2010. Winnipeg is lucky though as there is so much outdoor ice at commubity centres. I was still skating a lot back then. I know its outdoor ice, but I bet the average Winnipeg player has hours more on ice than most places.

I really cant imagine how any adult picks up hockey late in life with such bad access to ice in most cities.

 

[Killion]

Im 30ish....so when I wanted to get back into it as a teen was late 90s/early 00s. I stopped when I was 10.

I didnt get back into full equipment as a goalie until about 2010. Winnipeg is lucky though as there is so much outdoor ice at commubity centres. I was still skating a lot back then. I know its outdoor ice, but I bet the average Winnipeg player has hours more on ice than most places.

I really cant imagine how any adult picks up hockey late in life with such bad access to ice in most cities.

Yeah, Torontonians, Montrealers etc at one time, 20's through 60's as well, natural outdoor ice.... and thats a bit of a Bummer for you. Born late. Had you been born a few decades earlier that wouldnt have been an issue, the costs of not only equipment but registration etc. Goalie equipment was often supplied by the teams at entry level & on up back then precisely because even back then it was obviously more expensive to be equipping a kid. Many organizations, if the goalie showed promise, going on to Rep, as an inducement to sign outfitting him with pads, gloves, skates, mask & belly pad.

If not that then again, equipment exchanges an option while at the retail level to buy new pads etc there was at decent shops a range in terms of costs. Wide variety of price points particularly so starting early-mid 60's when the formerly Cooper-Weeks became "Cooper Canada" & began concentrating on designing & producing a full range of goalie equipment for all ages. But by the 80's, & certainly into your years, sky high prices. Pads running anywhere from $800 ~ $2900... insane. Registration Fee's & if ambitious, travel & time commitment from ones parents, your Dad or whomever, rather major. Specialized Coaching.... Summer Camp perhaps.... $$$$$.....

 

[Jumptheshark]

Many cite the high cost and inaccessibility of hockey as a reason for low participation rates. The general consensus is the sport is cost prohibitive for families that aren't at minimum middle-class. I'm lower middle class, began playing hockey as an adult and haven't felt its unreasonably costly. Equipment certainly isn't cheap, but a patient and attentive shopper can find heavily discounted equipment; drop-in sessions are generally $10-$15USD. When I visit Canada they're generally less expensive.

Obviously I haven't experienced the game at youth level, so I'm ignorant to expenses incurred. Other than equipment and rink time, what makes make hockey cost-prohibitive in comparison to other popular N.A sports?

No it is not.

I have seen kids go through 4 sets of equipment in one season.

 

[Heldig]

Bolded nails it. Be it grocery shopping or hockey equipment, playing time or organization shopping most people do so very poorly. Deep discounts are always available. Knowing how to find them, when and where is the key. Then applying the savings elsewhere.

Same for youth hockey. Plenty of subsidies and alternatives available. Question of doing the research and applying the results.

That only applies to equipment though.

If your child is playing at an elite level there are development camps, skills camps, extra ice time, travel / hotel / restaurant costs, multiple league fees, etc.

Then, if you dont have the "luxury"of living in a large city that offers all those extra services you have to figure out boarding costs eg) at the famous Shattuck St Marys:

2017-18 Domestic Boarding Student - One Payment

$49,150

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[nabbyfan]

Theres a reason the last few drafts have seen a huge uptick in sons of former NHL players getting picked. Some of it may obviously be genetic....but I think a lot of it is that NHL players are able to afford the ridiculous cost of top level youth hockey for their children more so than the average joe.

The cost of hockey is crazy, at least where I live in a Suburb of LA. You're looking at 1k or so for a year of Adult rec hockey...no thanks. Inline is where its at for semi affordable rec sports.

 

[Canadiens1958]

That only applies to equipment though.

If your child is playing at an elite level there are development camps, skills camps, extra ice time, travel / hotel / restaurant costs, multiple league fees, etc.

Then, if you dont have the "luxury"of living in a large city that offers all those extra services you have to figure out boarding costs eg) at the famous Shattuck St Marys:

2017-18 Domestic Boarding Student - One Payment

$49,150

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Proportionate to cost, Shattuck St. Marys does not produce results that compare to Notre Dame in Wilcox, Sask. or come close to St. Mike's during its glory days in Toronto.

Plus there are scholarship options and alumni benefactors that reduce the cost significantly.

 

[Heldig]

I just gave 1 quick example to illustrate that if you have to send a kid away to get pro style training then it is very costly. Sure there are scholarships etc but not everyone gets one (I assume).

 

[SupremeNachos]

If you do a $15 drop in once a week, that’s $780/yr to play pickup.

Pickup in any other sport is generally free.

I've had friends whos parents spent over 7000$ for 3 years of HS hockey because they grew every year.

 

[patnyrnyg]

It is not just hockey. It is all youth sports, especially travel.

My friend has a kid who is a freshman in college. When the kid was in 8th grade, he felt forced to join a travel soccer team. Cost was $3,000. That did not include the uniforms, warm-up suits, or hotels and other expenses as they went to a lot of tournaments. The $3,000 was to cover "local" league fees, permits, paid coaches, a paid trainer once a week. He felt forced because he wanted to play in HS and was told the HS coach would not even consider you if you didn't play travel. He was a good player, not a great player. His ace in the hole, was he was a left footed shot. The one saving grace was the travel coaches for this organization were VERY fair about playing time. They had strict rules about attendance at practice and training sessions that translated to playing time, and they kept the rosters small. They had 2 teams at every level who would have on-field practices together and only about 15 players on each squad.

Seems now there are also A LOT more kids playing "travel". I am almost 42, and when I was a kid if you played on a travel team, it meant you were REALLY good. Now, you have more kids who want to play (which is a good thing) so more people are creating travel teams . I used to umpire a travel baseball league on Long Island. Had some teams that were REALLY good. Then, a lot more teams that were just bad. I am talking about 14-15 year old travel players who could not catch fly balls hit to the outfield. At first, the bad teams would be competitive against each other and have 7-inning games that took 3 hours and both teams scored double-digits and then get slaughtered by the good teams. On one hand, it is great that kids are playing, but on the otherhand is that great for them to go onto a field knowing they are going to get destroyed? Eventually, they broke up the age levels into different skill levels, as well. But, even then you still had teams who would get crushed every game.

 

[patnyrnyg]

I can tell you that the local costs for entry level Mites/Learn to Skate is $50 for the season with free equipment rental. Compared to paying $150 for an 8 week soccer season at the local club, hockey is a bargain.

My daughter is 4. A church near us has a soccer program for 3 year olds. We signed her up. $150, which covered either 8 or 10 sessions in the fall and spring. 8-10 per season, so a total of 16-20. They gave her a t-shirt and socks. We had to provide cleats, shorts, shin guards, soccer ball (every kid brings their own ball to "practice"). Sessions are 45-minutes. When she was 3, there were about 100 kids total. When she was 4, probably about 125. Expenses for the league were minimal. Coaches were girls probably aged 13-16 who play on the church's CYO team. The field were practices were held is on the church ground and owned by the church. The insurance was minimal as they made it clear that if a child gets hurt, the parents are responsible for the medical expenses. Was told by someone "in the know" they have insurance for the coaches, and in case there might be a case of negligence. So, most of the money is going to fund the CYO programs for the older kids and the school. Oh, and this is a VERY wealthy parish. They make a few million dollars every summer on a large basketball league for 8 year olds up to adults. There adult league has about 30 teams.

When you think about the expenses to the church, the $150 is ridiculous. BUT, my daughter had fun so for $150 it is worth it.

 

[BadgerBruce]

The price tag is a deterrent, but in my experience there are other significant factors that either drive players out of organized hockey or keep them from ever playing.

Example: the best friend of one of my children plays high school basketball. His practices begin right after school at 2:30 and end at 3:45. He can stay and use the gymnasium until 4:30 if he wants to, but typically he leaves, walks home, and arrives by 4:15. Weekends are his own.

The School’s home and away games are on Tuesdays, begin at 3:00 pm, are over by 4:00, and rarely does he arrive home beyond 4:30-4:45. The stands at these games are loaded with other high school students, and there’s no question that the players love the atmosphere. Very few parents are around. As an aside, the price tag is insignificant — I think the players fork over $50. The team’s demographic mix is robust, with players of all ethnic and racial backgrounds. Rich kids, poor kids, everything in between.

Now, let’s look at this boy’s best friend, the one who plays organized rep hockey. The level of play is comparable to the high school varsity basketball team.

This boy has practices that begin anywhere from 5:00 pm until 9:30 pm, scheduled haphazardly on any 3 of the 7 days in a week. The players all need rides— nobody lives within walking distance of the multiple rinks and there’s no equivalent to the “school bus” to transport them. Home games are — no lie - Friday night at 9:15. Isn’t that a teenage boy’s delight? Away games could be any day and time.

The practices and games are watched by moms, dads and siblings who were dragged along by parents. A few girlfriends might be present for the odd game, but there’s nothing close to the kind of crowd the basketball player experiences.

90% of the hockey player’s teammates are from the same ethno-racial group and not one comes from anything close to a “poor family.” The price tag exceeds 3K.

So why are some minor hockey associations in southern Ontario unable to sttract enough players to ice bantam and midget rep teams? The answer is not just the $ required to play the game. The price tag, when measured in other ways, is simply too high for many teens and their families.

 

[patnyrnyg]

A high school basketball game is played in less than an hour?

As far as your point, I could definitely understand what you're saying. I played football in jr high and h.s. And, while where I live it certainly was not Friday Night Lights, part of what drew me to it as a young kid was when I went to a game and thought the atmosphere was great. I also threw the shot-put and discus in HS. And, while I loved competing, the meets were boring as hell.

 

[patnyrnyg]

What I find where I live is the kids who play sports play sports. It's the same kids that play football, that play basketball, and baseball, and hockey, and soccer, and golf, etc. The kids who are active in sports play sports, the other 50% of kids in the school don't do a dang thing. It doesn't matter what the cost is, their parents just aren't involved or are selfish with their time, and aren't going to sign their kids up to do anything, even the free local rec baseball league.

I had a friend whose parents were like that and as I got older my parents told me about some of the parents of my little brother's friends who were like that, as well. We played midget football together as 11 year olds. Generally, my mom would drive us to practice and his mom would drive us home. Every night as we were driving home she would complain to him about how much of an inconvenience all these practices and games were. I remember her telling him, "You better make this season count, because you are not doing this next year..." Practice field was about 3 miles from his house. The following year, we entered jr high and we both played on the school teams until graduation. His younger sisters and brother never played any sports. My little brothers friend wanted to join the swim team we were on every summer. His mother wouldn't let him as practices started at 8am and she didn't want to have to wake up that early to bring him. There was an afternoon practice from 4-5:30 (we only had to attend 1), but that didn't work for her either as it "killed" her afternoons and she would then have to cook dinner later than she wanted. That kid never played any sports, either and neither did his siblings.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

It's like 100$ to sign up to play in a YMCA Rec League, all inclusive. That's not halfway to a halfway decent outfit for hockey.

 

[GuelphStormer]

five grand a year, easily. fees are half that, right off the top. travel another grand.

gear? get ready for a battle royal with your own little miss wickenheiser. junior skates range from $80 to $700. try to buy your kid a $100 pair when the rest of her team are wearing super tacks or bauer supremes. "my ankles hurt"; "these crappy things are made of jello. im the slowest on the ice, dad!" good luck cheaping out with that, especially if you actually care about their progress. sticks? hah! an average kid goes thru more money just in sticks every year than her sister does in a career's worth of soccer equipment.

folks in my neighbourhood aren't hurting by any means, but a lot of them are faced with a stark economic choice between hockey, or university for their kids.

god forbid you have more than one kid.

 

[Inkling]

an average kid goes thru more money just in sticks every year than her sister does in a career's worth of soccer equipment.

Completely opposite my experience. In my experience, kids don't break sticks, they're not strong enough. It might be an issue once you get to midget age. There are a lot of expenses but sticks are not a big one although eventually they need longer ones as they grow.

Sometimes you hear people say that minor hockey should return to wooden sticks due to the expense of composite but I find it to be just so small an issue that it's just noise compared to the larger cost items. You can also get perfectly good sticks for $60; if they want to spend $300 then that's on them. If you don't play hockey at all because you can't afford AAA prices, then that doesn't make much sense.