Is the 2 scoring lines 2 checking lines formula outdated?

Bounces R Way

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Traditionally NHL teams have been built upon having their first two forward lines carry the bulk of the scoring, and their 3rd and 4th lines be used primarily in checking roles. Examining further the 3rd line would be the consummate checking line and the 4th would be used to provide energy, grit, and intimidation.

What this means is that teams would fill out lines 1 & 2 with the more talented offensive players to maximize production while also giving them more OZ starts and TOI. For lines 3 & 4 the desired attributes for players played in checking roles are more built around defensive acumen. Good along the boards, good forecheckers, strong cycle game, strong defensive positioning, who are big bodies that can wear down the opponent. This meant, typically, that teams would be more likely to give a bottom 6 roster spot to a player with some PK experience, good hits/game numbers, and a familiarity with playing in NHL systems rather than say for instance their leading AHL scorer.


With more and more young players proving to be adept at both ends of the rink much quicker than in the past; and the importance of scoring throughout the lineup being at an all time high, are we then going to see a shift in this philosophy of giving preference to the "role player" for these bottom 6 roles to a standard predicated on talent and possible production? Are the veterans who have paltry point per game numbers, but who "do the little things right", days numbered?
 
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gtrower

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A lot of team became bigger/stronger and a few teams gained an advantage by going smaller and quicker. That trend will probably continue until a tipping point in 10/15 years when the league is smaller/quicker on average and a bigger checking team starts throwing their weight around and wrecking the smaller teams.

Sports are cyclical.
 

AveryStar4Eva

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Aug 28, 2014
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Think the best combo these days is,

2 two way lines. Can give these lines tough match ups and play them all over the ice.

1 offensive line. Give them more offensive zone starts and easier match ups.

1 checking line. Plunk them in the defencive zone and they can help move the puck up the ice. Lots of times they are pk specialist.

Best case scenario is having 4 two way lines where you can role them and keep them fresh, but unfortunately lots of players only excel in either offense or defence
 
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Trojans86

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I like the idea of 1 shutdown line that also has the ability to score even while matched against the other teams top line, 2 scoring lines that have pretty evenly distributed talent, and a 4th line has a guy or two that can play the ok but also with the ability to score rather than a line that just tries to win the puck and dump and change.
 

Rebels57

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Yeah it's pretty much "middle 6 nowadays" where there isn't a lot of separation between the 2nd and 3rd lines on the top teams in the league.
 

tarheelhockey

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It’s definitely outdated in the sense that teams now value possession too much to have half the team specializing in defensive roles. Teams want a decent chance at puck control on all 4 lines, so they’d sooner integrate specialists up and down the lineup than ice 3 guys can’t get the puck over the red line.
 

93LEAFS

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Nov 7, 2009
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I wouldn't say its outdated. But, similar to the 4f-1d forward set-up a majority of teams are switching to it.

It seems either teams run 1 stacked top line and a balanced middle 6, or try what Babcock is doing in Toronto. Which is one grit guy on each line with 2 skiller players. The other common thing you are seeing is teams primary shutdown lines are either their 1st line for example teams with Kopitar, Barkov, Toews, etc or they try to use their 2nd line as the shutdown such as Kadri, Kesler, ROR, etc.

In a cap world, it makes little sense to put your 2 best players together in a lot of cases due to diminishing returns. It is better to have them carry their own unit. So, while neither player hits crazy points numbers, they overall drive up team scoring.
 

PensandCaps

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Yes. I don't see why your 4th line can't be players who can score...that's what the Penguins did in their back to back cups.
 
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Bounces R Way

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Yes. I don't see why your 4th line can't be players who can score...that's what the Penguins did in their back to back cups.

It could be said that the Penguins may have started this trend, although the Blackhawks have had some real deep championship teams as well. Obviously being able to trot out a Crosby-Malkin-Kessel-Letang-Hornqvist PP was a major factor, but when I think of those back to back runs it's more the fantastic goaltending and timely contributions from players like Guentzel, Sheary, Bonino, and Rust that made those teams so hard to deal with.

We saw that continue this year with Vegas, Tampa, Winnipeg, and Boston all enjoying a ton of success with playing young players with speed and some offensive pedigree in the bottom half of their forward corps. Don't really feel the Cup winning Washington Capitals are the best example, but you can certainly see how vital the speed and skill of Eller, Stephenson, Burakovsky, Connolly, and Vrana was to the team, especially in the later two rounds.
 
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Took a pill in Sbisa

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Not many teams have a bottom 6 that isn't expected to contribute offensively. Back in the 90s you might expect a 4th line to all be sub-5 goal scorers.

It's pretty much 3 scoring lines and an intabgibles line that has a distinctive identity.
 

snipes

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Dec 28, 2015
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A lot of team became bigger/stronger and a few teams gained an advantage by going smaller and quicker. That trend will probably continue until a tipping point in 10/15 years when the league is smaller/quicker on average and a bigger checking team starts throwing their weight around and wrecking the smaller teams.

Sports are cyclical.

This.

The Broadstreet Bullies came along and dominated before the more skilled Habs teams started dominating again.

Likewise the league shifted for a bit to the "heavy" Kings model and speed and skill style game replaced it at the top (Pens) a few years later.

Interestingly, the Caps had this hybrid thing going away where they played this gritty, nasty game while utterly destroying teams with a lethal PP.

Sports are absolutely cyclical as you note. Eventually a team of bullies will be on top again soon replaced by a speed/skill kind of game.
 

maacoshark

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Jul 22, 2017
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This.

The Broadstreet Bullies came along and dominated before the more skilled Habs teams started dominating again.

Likewise the league shifted for a bit to the "heavy" Kings model and speed and skill style game replaced it at the top (Pens) a few years later.

Interestingly, the Caps had this hybrid thing going away where they played this gritty, nasty game while utterly destroying teams with a lethal PP.

Sports are absolutely cyclical as you note. Eventually a team of bullies will be on top again soon replaced by a speed/skill kind of game.
You make it sound as if the Broad street bullies had no skill. They had some skill, Bobby Clarke won multiple Hart trophies and may have been the best playmaker and 2way player at that time. The Flyers also had 3 players on their roster in that era that scored 50 plus goals. That was Leach, Barber and MacLeish.
 
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maacoshark

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Jul 22, 2017
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This.

The Broadstreet Bullies came along and dominated before the more skilled Habs teams started dominating again.

Likewise the league shifted for a bit to the "heavy" Kings model and speed and skill style game replaced it at the top (Pens) a few years later.

Interestingly, the Caps had this hybrid thing going away where they played this gritty, nasty game while utterly destroying teams with a lethal PP.

Sports are absolutely cyclical as you note. Eventually a team of bullies will be on top again soon replaced by a speed/skill kind of game.
I liked how the Caps played this postseason. A big physical team with skill.
 
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gtrower

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I liked how the Caps played this postseason. A big physical team with skill.

I think the Caps didn’t get a lot of credit for team speed because of playing Pitt/Tampa/Vegas. Caps had a good mix of skill/power/speed making up all 4 lines. Vrana and Stephenson can flat out fly.
 

Devil Dancer

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Jan 21, 2006
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The Caps won the Cup this year because they consistently got scoring contributions from their bottom 6. That didn't happen in previous playoff appearances.

So yeah, I'd say it's pretty damn hard to win the Cup with just two scoring lines. You need contributions from all up and down the lineup.
 

kerrabria

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May 3, 2018
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If what you are implying is...
- 2 all out offense lines
- 1 shutdown line
- 1 goon squad
then yes. Those days are long over.

Nowadays I don't think there is any formula coach's try to use or should use for that matter. Just make sure each line can
a) score with some dependability
b) isn't a catastrophe defensively
c) isn't so soft that that the entire line can easily be manhandled into submission
 

Luigi Lemieux

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Sep 26, 2003
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I think the Caps didn’t get a lot of credit for team speed because of playing Pitt/Tampa/Vegas. Caps had a good mix of skill/power/speed making up all 4 lines. Vrana and Stephenson can flat out fly.
Agree, I'd still consider the caps a top 10 team in terms of speed. They are by no means slow. Otherwise they would have gotten eaten up by Vegas the way LA/SJ/WPG did.
 

txpd

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Jan 25, 2003
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I think more accurately there were 2 offensive lines, 1 shutdown line and an energy line. The energy line most often no really trusted with a shutdown checking duty. Many good teams now have top 2 centers that are also shutdown quality defensive players. Bergeron and Backstrom as examples. The Boston 1 line and the Caps 2 line are their matchup shutdown lines. When that applies the 3rd line can be something else. A 3rd offensive line where young offensive players can be slotted in or developed offense can be spread out. The 4th line becomes more specialists, particularly PK and defensive only.
 

kk87

Registered User
Feb 12, 2015
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Waterloo, ON
I like this model:

1. Elite two-way line
2. Matchup line that can provide solid offence
3. Sheltered offensive line
4. Checking/energy line, less productive

Somewhat contingent on having an abundance of riches up front
 

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