Is Seth Jones A Locker Room Cancer?

[BobbyJet]

I know this is mostly speculation. But just can't help but wonder.

Exactly. Close this thread.

 

[Geoist]

He’s an energy vampire.

Yes, definitely.

He's a cancer because of his play on the ice. He is a selfish, lazy player, with terrible hockey IQ. The fact that there is no accountability for his putrid play will absolutely cause problems in the locker room. He comes back from injury and immediately displaces Vlasic on the top PP unit, when there was no reason to do so. He comes back and is first over the boards on the PK, and the PK has been putrid since he returned to the lineup.

When your "leaders" and highest paid players are setting examples like that, it's horrible for the team culture.

PK without Seth Jones is 93%. Games he's played this season they are at 76%.

Yes, this is pretty much how I see it, too.

The lack of accountability to the veterans has been particularly frustrating this season.

 

[SC116]

I used to give Jones the benefit of the doubt. I never liked how he presented himself on camera/in interviews. He always seemed disinterested and bored. However, as an introvert I understand that one could be different around others compared to the spotlight. But now that his play has clearly regressed, none of this can be ignored anymore. There just seem to be a lot of clues that he is not the leader we'd want him to be on this team. Why don't they play him with Vlasic anymore? Instead they are pairing him with... Brodie and Allan?? Also, I know I'm not the only one who notices Jones' reluctance to pass to Bedard. I seriously wonder if he's bitter about never being considered for the captaincy... which also makes me wonder about his relationship with Foligno.

I know this is mostly speculation. But just can't help but wonder.

I don't think you can serve as lettered leadership and be an introvert; it's entirely incompatible with what you need to be doing. Captaincy? Again, you need to have hockey IQ for that, as well as leadership and mentorship of newer guys - I have not seen either of that the entire time he has been here, and he has had ample opportunity to demonstrate it - personally I would be entirely ok with if they stripped that letter off of him - maybe give it to Bedard, or Hall. Hall seems like he is actually making more noises like he is serious about wanting to be here lately, as he is taking a more public facing role than previously. Even moreso than a guy with an A.

 

[Mjul Qvist]

This is what Tortorella had to say about Jones few years back:

"Later on the program, Tortorella had some praise for Seth Jones, both as a player and as a leader.

"I'm not sure what happens with Nick during the summer in free agency...but I'll tell you right now: Seth Jones is the next captain of this hockey club, in my view anyway," said Tortorella. "Those are discussions you have organizationally, but in my view, he has not taken a shift off since we've been out of it, since the trade deadline, since the injuries. He is probably one of the only players in that room that can say that...he just keeps on playing. You look at the situation, and you want to see how people react, and I watch it very closely. Man, that guy there has done nothing but stand out for me, as far as how he's acted, and he deserves a lot of credit."

Don´t think he is a locker room cancer. As a player he has amazing physical tools but he has low hockey IQ what comes out in his defensive side of play.

 

[hockeydoug]

How is anything with Jones not tied to Foligno? The Mr "great job" KFC built this thing around those two as leaders.

Whatever isn't working is on management more than players at this point.

He and Foligno have earned plenty of period benchings and a healthy scratch or two but KD is scared to death to tell anybody who might know more than him what to do.

4 rookie HCs in a row, wonder if Jones is about to light himself on fire or just keep sailing through the wreckage?

 

[Clownish]

This is what Tortorella had to say about Jones few years back:

"Later on the program, Tortorella had some praise for Seth Jones, both as a player and as a leader.

"I'm not sure what happens with Nick during the summer in free agency...but I'll tell you right now: Seth Jones is the next captain of this hockey club, in my view anyway," said Tortorella. "Those are discussions you have organizationally, but in my view, he has not taken a shift off since we've been out of it, since the trade deadline, since the injuries. He is probably one of the only players in that room that can say that...he just keeps on playing. You look at the situation, and you want to see how people react, and I watch it very closely. Man, that guy there has done nothing but stand out for me, as far as how he's acted, and he deserves a lot of credit."

Don´t think he is a locker room cancer. As a player he has amazing physical tools but he has low hockey IQ what comes out in his defensive side of play.

If anyone was going to confirm half of what his legions of haters list as his faults, it would be Torts, and he would have said it long before they thought of it. I still can't wrap my head around the math of wanting to lose, hoping for a high draft pick, yet bashing someone who is playing losing hockey. If he was crushing it and winning a few games that leads to a worse draft pick. He's not going anywhere so there's no trade value to speak of and he's not taking a prodigy's spot in the lineup, nor are they a capped out team so his cap # is irrelevant yet let's get mad about how he plays in yet another throwaway year.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

He's not a cancer he's just a guy way too comfortable with complacency. He's not the problem people are just angry he isn't the solution.

I'm honestly more concerned with Foligno. Last year he was a vet with something to prove. This year he is playing like he's a skill guy instead of the tougher than a $2 steak third liner he was last year.

Tinordi was trash but he gave this team an edge. Foligno was a hard mother f***er with a pylon that would eat knuckle sandwiches. Dad strength and all that. This year Foligno is not the guy I loved last year. Maybe it's the C. Maybe it's father time. I think Foligno makes an outstanding NCO. Less so as your CO.

Seth played for Torts and was loved by Torts. Talent alone doesn't get you that.

 

[GIADF]

He's not a cancer he's just a guy way too comfortable with complacency.

For a guy who wears a letter that's a HUGE issue for me personally.

 

[Pertti]

Maybe rest of the team thinks he will fix everything and that makes team to lose. Jones gets in on 3rd gear and 5 other d-men take 1 gear off because Jones is back.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

For all the complaints that people rightfully have with Jones, I don't recall him ever being considered anything less than at least a good teammate.

 

[Dead Meat]

For a guy who wears a letter that's a HUGE issue for me personally.

He didn't even speak with reporters after he sleepwalked through the winter classic - Bedard did.

 

[Crow]

How is anything with Jones not tied to Foligno? The Mr "great job" KFC built this thing around those two as leaders.

Whatever isn't working is on management more than players at this point.

He and Foligno have earned plenty of period benchings and a healthy scratch or two but KD is scared to death to tell anybody who might know more than him what to do.

4 rookie HCs in a row, wonder if Jones is about to light himself on fire or just keep sailing through the wreckage?

Mr great job kfc?

 

[hockeydoug]

Mr great job kfc?

There was some industrial strength Koolaid dished out by the media and chugged here.

Critical thoughts suggesting that an accelerated tear down and heavily draft (volume) focused rebuild might not be a great idea lead by a bunch of rookies were dismissed a little too easily but not as easily as the the words "good" and "great" were thrown around for 2 1/2 years in regards to management.

 

[hawksfan50]

Check out latest podcast over at Second City Hockey website ....review of the Winter Classic debacle loss bit more so they realky laid o to Seth Jones ...they conclude he either doesn't give a f**k or he does notcompete harder because he still is not 100%healthy and rushed back for selfish reasons so he could play in the Winter Classic...they akso blame management for throwing him back into the fire with big minutes his first 3 games back then realizing he was not playibg well so letting Vlasic actually y play more minutes than Seth in the ladt 2 games (by just a few minutes less though)
..finally they admit Seth was never a #1D in ability or effect but paid like one...but I think they are mistaken tgat Seth Jones would be a fine #3dman limited to 5x5 use and not running the PP or be used on the PK..but theycask would Seth check his ego and accept a lesser role as just a #3D or even less as in a 3rd pairing guy ?
I do not think Seth would check his ego for such a demotion...Maybe he would want out and waive his NMC..but they all agree he is untraceable with that contract ...One of them said maybe with tge cap rising Hawks could eat half the cap hit or getcac3rd team involved in order for a team to get Seth at just 25% of his cap hit...but they added that doing such costs a lot in giving up a lot of assets (assuming picksto sweeten any deal) ...or they said it might involve taking a bad contract of a player that team wants to get rid of and so you end up tradibg bad for bad ...

IF however these stupid Second City podcssters would only see that $9.5 would NOT be a fine #3dman nor even a fine 3rd pairing dman if we ignored his pay level and just overpaid to put him in lesser dman role ..but just admitted as I have concluded that Jones isxa liability playo g as a xman no matter what oairing you put him on..not that he just does not compete hard or smart enough..but he simply does not have the APTITUDE for the dman position on any pairing level.

However they state he has the skating and the tools and implued athleticism but that he somehow never maximizes those tools..

However they can find no solution to maximize the natural gifts Seth has ..but I have suggested a simution than CAN maximize his athletic gifts ..and that is Remove him from the complexity and pressure of defending and alk the tasks a dman must do ...simply his role to use tgat size piwrr and speed (once he gets going) to the much simpler task of a power winger..He will not score a lot of goals as a forward ...his shot not good enough ..but using size power and speed to rush pucks from the d-zobe into the o-zone ,then to take the puck to the net or to pound the dmEn into the boards if he loses the puck and it goes to the boards, to get that lose puck and again tKevit to the net with speed sizexand oiwrr...that ability creates CHAOS for opposing dmen and forwards.. it woukdvopen space for other Hawks on with hom and also there should be increased rebound opportunity and finishes at the net by his line-mateds following up his dashes to the bet.
WE have alk seenSeth take the puck as a dman to try to the pucks at the net himself..but these "flashes" of creating danger at the net are not frequent in hisrole asxa dman... would be way more frequent if he were a winger ...

I suggest moving him to wing in order to do what he does best ...using his gifts for this kind of powrr move to the net ...I have removed what he does worst...process the incoming play as a dman,cover position properly as a dman,fail to move guys from the Hawks' crease ,fail to react in time on loose pucks he loses sight of, finish checks to stop the attack in the d-zone,maintain proper gaps...take all of this complex stuff he stinks at doing right or gives up on because it overwhelms his brain,and just let him do only a few things well usibg the giftsche CAN bring
....
We can savage if not $9.5million of "good" usage then at least $4 to 5million ROI if he just becomes a power winger.

That is better than 95cents worth ROI as a NOT very effective dman on any net differential measuring scale for positive investment returns.

Now ..woukd Seth check his ego and embrace a power forward role?

We moved Big Buff from D to a piwr forward who created CHAOS and space for those on shift with hom to put goals behind the opposing goalies ...true Byfiglien eventually wanted to go back to defense ...but in actuality he was very useful as a power forward.

I would hope $9.5 realizes sich a move actualky is his chance to bea positive effector for the team...that he embraces such a new role ...I think internally Seth knows he stinks as dman and so has given up to all the pressure on him and to all the complexity he cannot handle...often he just stands there covering no one or not summoning the will to shove guys off our crease...looking so non-chalant ontge missing exerted effort as pucks fly past our goalie into our net ...

He does not look ashamed..does not look like he cares...no slamming ofcsticks...he has merely "accepted" he cannot succeed as a dman ...but has $9.5mulluon reasons not to care cause crease cashing at the bank IS fun.
However give him only a couple of tasks as a oiwrr forward and I think his attitude will be energized...hewill be less tired with less minutes and with less to process with his mind.. Simpl y rush pucks the o-zone...take it to the net...if you lose the puck go get t back ...pound the opposing dman or forward trying to get
the loose puck,get it back,and make plays right to the net again..Realky simple stuff.

I think Seth could do these simple tasks well.

If we turned Byfuglien loose to create chaos in tgevo-zone posing problems for the opps ,I see no reason why a faster more athletic Jones cannot also be used in similar fashion..

Thus is not slow Markun or slow Foligno ..Seth can move when he tries...I think such anew role will make him try
..I think as a dman he has given up trying..he has accepted cheaue-cashing .

We all want to feel useful and a positive contributor for our team...Seth does not feel he CAN as a dman...maybe as a forward he will feel he CAN contribute with his best athletic attributes ?

What have we got to lose?

How long do you keep trying to fit a square peg into a round hole?

 

[statswatcher]

There was some industrial strength Koolaid dished out by the media and chugged here.

Critics were hammered pretty hard for suggesting any other path than an accelerated tear down and an almost "all pick" foundation for a rebuild by a bunch of green executives and questionable staff choices was the way to go.

most of what you are talking about was a rightfully weary response to the last years of stanbo desperately clinging on. going into davidson's first draft they'd already lost the 12oa pick to columbus the draft previous, and ultimately they would end up looking at giving up the 6oa this go around. given that context, it's obvious why he felt like he had to make a move.

so he clears out debrincat and dach for the picks that become korchinski and nazar. he trades the pick that becomes frasier minten for mrazek and the pick that becomes sam rinzel. at the time, with the team completley listless and multiple years removed from being able to ice anything that could be mistaken for an nhl d core, these moves make a certain amount of sense. the debrincat move left many uneasy if my memory serves, and so far of these moves that is the one you'd probably like to have back.

 

[SC116]

Seth isn't a power forward, and I doubt he has the skillset to understand what an NHL level winger actually does. Bedard didn't even have it - he was entirely lost out there when Richardson shifted him there- all that happened differently was Bedard just wasn't taking draws. I guess, technically, given his success rate is sort of is debatable if he actually is taking draws even now - but just an area to work on for 98 -- this isn't about 98 though.

Seth doesn't have the bulk of a Byfuglien - no way ...sure he's a bigger guy, but he isn't a train -that a guy probably would have to be in order to just stand in as a hope it goes ok, PF. He'd probably still instinctively fall back into like a 3rd D guy. It's a waste, waste of money, waste of a roster spot, and would probably be pretty much entirely a waste of time ... trying to make lemonade out of lemon pledge. It will smell like lemons, but I doubt anyone should drink it.

I'd probably try to work out how to mask his short-comings then try to move the guy. That or if the team has a buy out in the off-season, I would strongly consider it. It is one of Bowman's millstones, one that he could not possibly have had any scouting on --or never listened to it. Jones simply is not a number 1 d-man in the NHL. He needs a puck carrier -he's ok as a complimentary guy, but as -the- guy? No - that appears not to have worked out so well.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Buying him out doesn’t help our cap at all

 

[hawksfan50]

I disagree with sone posters who say Seth does not have the skills to beca powrr forward...
Sure...his shotvis lousy so hecwill not score may goals himself..Nor are his passes always tape to tape ...but lije I have said may times,The other tasks of a power forward are few and simple ...

.rush the puck with power and speed combo into the o-zobe...then take it to the net or if you lose possession once in the o-zobe go after the loose pucks along the boards...pound the dman trying to retrieve it,get him to cough it back up ...which allows tgevoiwrr forward or a linemate to retrieve that loose puck and continue attacking with pass to the crease or taking it to the crease...in short Chais for the defending opps in their zone occurs...thisxcreates scoring chances at the net...rebound goals..chaos and tap I goals from the met scrums.

It isxa very simple set of tasks (sure it helps if you can score yourself but eve if you have no good shotvor hands tge choose you create from powrr moves to the net and forecheck hits causes problems for the opps defending their net.

So I bekievecSeth has these skills of a good power forward except with no great shot and justxaveragevoasding sjill..butcall thevitgerxstuff required in thebo-zobe froma piwr forward he does have thecsize,speed ,powr to do..created space and chaos around the net..make the dmen try to stop freightcstrainwhichbkeavrs linemates moreover.


Think not what Seth is bad at doing(all the complex stuff dmen must do) free up his mind for much simpler tasks.


We HAVE seen him when he decides to take pucks to the net.it is when he actualky looks good doing a task...
But he dies this only occasionally...as a winger that would ocurr a lot more often.

Use what he coukdvdo best..not what he does worst(be an effective positive dman).

I believe making hisctasks simpler will get him excited and that hecwill apply himself to those fewr simpler tasks in his new role.

What have we got to lose by not experimenting with hom up front ?

He also has the size and heft to stand i in front of the net to occupy the dmen and screen the goalie on incoming Hawksxshots..ifvthey worry about homat the net ...creating screens or havoc,then it will open shot lanes for shiftnates..

I see little downside from trying this. Because Seth fails way too often for persisting as a dman.

We gotta try sonething different with him.

If he still fails such a new role,THEN just bench him...even at $9.5 cost for doing nothing...just sitting.

Still even that woukd ne mire helpful than letting him persist as a dmanwhere he isxa Negative inpactor on the team.

 

[Pez68]

Do Better, Expectations, Disappointment, and Other Blackhawks New Year's Day Bullets - Bleacher Nation

Happy New Year, Blackhawks fans! I know, I know... the game was awful yesterday. Brutal. A disaster. But everything around the game was top shelf. Wrigley

www.bleachernation.com

Guy couldn't even meet the media after that brutal performance. The 19 year old kid did so instead.

 

[SC116]

The basic problem is - 4 simply isn't tough enough to be a power forward; I cannot even imagine him trying to screen any goalie (other than his own), let alone actually tipping a puck.

Watch Dach (28) play- that's what a power winger does. No idea what he does going forward, but that is what one is supposed to do in those spots.

I mean - what the ... if that is the logic, he might be able to be repurposed as a goalie. He s what he is - he'd be overpaid but effective if the team were to ever get a true #1 defenceman -one that specialises in zone breakouts. He can actually play, and be effective. But I don't remember seeing him on teams where he was expected to be the #1 d-guy.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

You aren't moving a thirty year old defenseman being paid nine million dollars to wing.

 

[TheFridge]

There was some industrial strength Koolaid dished out by the media and chugged here.

Critical thoughts suggesting that an accelerated tear down and heavily draft (volume) focused rebuild might not be a great idea lead by a bunch of rookies were dismissed a little too easily but not as easily as the the words "good" and "great" were thrown around for 2 1/2 years in regards to management.

"Critical thoughts"? My guy, we are not even 3 full years into the rebuild at this point. The overwhelming majority of players drafted haven't played a game for CHI, much less are old enough or experienced enough to be making impacts on the roster. You can talk about the plan working or not working in 3-4 more years.

 

[deytookerjaabs]

The fact that Seth continues to be used as an offensive driver is, at this point, a pox on the front office & coaching more than anything.

Last year I whined about the fact that he had the second most shot attempts on the team behind Bedard and he didn't score a goal until 2024. It's a ****ing joke, a total joke. Move him to wing? He sucks at creating offense, that's his problem!

And guess what...He still has the highest shot attempts per game this year! Holy crap?

It's so screwed up.

And now that the current coach is trying to really push things from the back end (which we should be doing) it's even worse because it just further exposes Jones massively flawed offensive instincts.

 

[BLKHKhockey]

I liked him better when he was playing more reserved. A few seasons ago.

 

[TLEH]

I was catching up on 32 thoughts. I wasn’t aware that Seth had a meeting in CBJ, along with some other veterans, like Atkinson, and they said to the GM that if they wanted to win in CBJ, Merzlikins and Laine had to go.

Then both Seth and Cam were traded lol