Is Rielly More Similar To McCabe, Phaneuf And Gardiner Than We Hoped?

[DitchMarner]

I know a Rielly thread exists; I want this thread to be used for a specific topic as opposed to serving as a general discussion thread about a player.

I am drawing parallels between Morgan and the defensemen mentioned in the title.

They all had seasons/stretches of very good play but were prone to mental lapses and had defensive shortcomings that really kept any of them from being an ideal number one defenseman, let alone an elite one (ala prime Doughty, Keith, etc).

I personally liked both McCabe and Gardiner (didn't care for Dion), but they were hard to defend at times. All of them were basically whipping boys who were more or less run out of town.

It seems to me that to a considerable extent Rielly has been spared the level of scrutiny to which the aforementioned defensemen were often subjected... although it seems that he is being criticized more often and more severely as of late.

I think it's fair to say that it is disappointing that a defenseman who should be in his prime has really not progressed at all on the defensive side of things years into his career. Now that there is no longer a Gardiner to pick on, maybe his shortcomings are becoming harder to ignore. I personally have become somewhat disillusioned with Rielly lately.

In retrospect, maybe the Leafs should have sold high on McCabe after he racked up a ton of PP points in '06. After signing a new deal, he regressed and was traded away. Phaneuf never lived up to his last contract, either. Should these players be used as precedents when gauging Rielly's future value?

Click to read more...

 

[stickty111]

Finally a thread worth discussing that is without bias.
It's a valid point actually. I will say Rielly probably has the most character from all of them, but there is no question he is similar in terms of bad defensive play on a nightly basis. It makes me upset the game Gardiner got booed, so maybe this is what those fans deserve on whats happened with Morgan.
As someone who loved Rielly, I'm over him. You can't have your best d man be one of the worst defensively in the league. Dubas needs to make a hard decision here

 

[LeafsNation75]

I thought a lot of the criticism McCabe and Phaneuf got was because of the money they were making? So I don't think we are at that point yet with Rielly.

 

[Stephen]

I’ll preface my criticism of Rielly by saying a defenseman who has both a highly offensively productive game and airtight defense is basically a Norris Trophy winning unicorn.

That said, I think the environment in which you bring up a defenseman, if he has the kind of high end mentorship and stability to learn the position matters a lot. Guys like Gardiner and Rielly weren’t developed in highly functional defense corps, and McCabe spent years on tire fire teams on the Islanders and Chicago and Vancouver before coming to the Leafs. Phaneuf just didn't seem to have the high end processing to take advantage of the physical tools he started his career with. Remember those Weber vs Phaneuf comparisons on here?

Rielly is still good but his game is really exposed because we need him to take the next step to be the real field general out there. We kind of need the Auston Matthews equivalent on defense, but Rielly is just at a Nylander level, to use an analogy. And I’m not sure he has either the innate wiring or has been exposed to that stud dman to really have a grasp of how to be the number one on a serious cup contender. Still up to him to figure it out.

 

[Warden of the North]

Toronto is unreasonably hard on defenseman.

History shows that, quite clearly. Its continuing with Rielly.

 

[TorontoTrades]

TLDR going to assume your post is garbage, Rielly is a top pairing Dman even with his inconsistencies.

 

[Suntouchable13]

There is nothing wrong necessarily being close to those players you mentioned. People expect too much. They were all 1st pairing guys in their primes (Except Gardiner, I guess). I don't know how many true #1 D-men are out there. So he is not going to be a HOF level D, so what?

 

[Buds17]

I'd say Rielly is better than either Phaneuf (his best days were in Calgary) or Gardiner were. Phaneuf played on the worst teams in his time here among the four in question. Wearing the 'C' probably increased the scrutiny. Rielly and Gardiner have the greatest parallel as teammates and from the team success perspective. Fair to say that McCabe was better than Rielly. Still, McCabe does makes for the best comparable of the three to Rielly, IMO.

Being the team leader in ATOI and points from the blueline, I think Rielly is solid value for his current contract. That might not be as true if the team signs him to his next contract. That's a topic for another day though.

 

[Teeder Keon]

No he isn’t
My lord , what’s going on with some of you ??
Have you ever played hockey at a high level ? coached ? Or just been a fan for many years , or even have a keen eye for the finer nuances of the sport ?
Cmon give it a break
MR is what he is , a terrific skating , offensively gifted , homegrown talent that is a super teammate and exceptional person and great representative of our team , with some shortcomings on the defensive side on occasion .most of his defensive lapses are direct results of him carrying the puck , or joining the rush , or taking chances , all of these mostly work out and are part of being “ that guy” on the team ..
And in the defensive zone , sometimes his decision making isn’t the best , but that’s on occasion and certainly is his weakest part of his game
Show me a player who doesn’t have a weakness in his game ?

 

[Cory Kennedy]

Hey bud, what are you smoking?

If your gonna come in here and post threads like THAT then you have to share.

 

[HC7]

Rielly is what Tyson Barrie was in Colorado.

He'll get you points, but he's useless everywhere else. That high ankle sprain screwed his career.

 

[Puckstuff]

He’s much better on D then Barrie and overall better but yeah he’s a liability on D at times for sure

 

[supermann_98]

Why oh why do we always gotta turn on our own and run them outta town. Reilly is exactly what he was advertised as when he was drafted, when they described him as a pure offensive defenseman when plays as the 4th forward and isn't the best defensively. Yes he's not the best defensively, but when healthy he's a 70 point defenseman and those don't grow on trees.

My only criticism of Reilly is for an offensive defenseman his shot is weak af, but when everything is taken into consideration including his place in the leadership of the team and how he's a home grown talent who every other team in the league would gladly take him off our hands ... Positives definitely outweigh his negatives

 

[SeaOfBlue]

He has better defensive IQ than people think.

The guy is not likely a Norris winner, and I have a feeling that is what people think when they think #1 defenseman. That's like saying people in the McDavid realm are the only ones who can be 1C's. He takes risks, which don't always pan out, but he is not stupid like Gardiner or Phaneuf were.

He makes defensive mistakes and his ideal partner is someone who is very strong in their own end and can cover for Rielly when he takes risks. Not sure if that will end up being Brodie, who has been far from perfect himself, but he worked very well as Giordano's partner for years and Giordano plays a very similar kind of game (except he started scoring goals in his 30's). If Rielly can end up like Giordano, we have a guy who can really help out our defense for years (Giordano is still going strong at 37).

 

[WTFMAN99]

He's not as bad as people say but keep in mind he's not facing the other team's best, at least not on purpose. That duty goes to Muzzin and Holl. Someone broke down how he is the best offensive defenseman on our roster (not a surprise) and he's also been our worst defensively. I don't get that part, he's not facing the other team's best and his best partner...ever here and yet the defensive metrics are worse?

 

[Smif]

I wish Keefe would shelter his minutes a bit more. I feel like we have plenty of defensive players that would allow us to do this now.

 

[zeke]

Best even strength scoring pace, Career:

Rielly (24): 17gl/51pt pace
Gardiner (28): 4gl/37pt pace
McCabe (28): 9gl/30pt pace
Phaneuf (23): 7gl/27pt pace

 

[PromisedLand]

Rielly is the best D-man we've had since probably Kaberle. And I think Rielly > Kabarle.

We blew a 5-1 lead not everything is attributable to Mo.. jeez

 

[hockeynorth]

Know what, while I love Mo, @GlitchMarner I actually appreciate this thread bringing up Rielly in a less biased and instead more inquisitive tone.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Why are we talking about him making teensy little mistakes in the D-zone? It's not like the issue is that his gaps are the wrong size or he needs to get man strength, he consistently makes terrible decisions defensively and offensively that are obviously wrong even at the Junior level. Giving the puck away 3 times in one D-zone shift doesn't get cancelled out by skating 10 feet and giving the puck to Marner for a 2nd assist.

You simply can't have Rielly out defending a lead in an important game, his mistakes are too glaring. I get that being a primary puck carrier brings more risk, but that risk is supposed to be him getting stripped in the neutral zone, not serving up pies in the slot every time he gets pressured. I don't even know what kind of partner can cover for that issue unless they're better offensively and take over the puck movement, but then what's Rielly's job? I almost wish he was a worse guy so doing the right thing for the team would be easier. I'm willing to take lower highs for someone with higher lows.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Rielly is the best D-man we've had since probably Kaberle. And I think Rielly > Kabarle.

We blew a 5-1 lead not everything is attributable to Mo.. jeez

If you want to say the only thing Rielly did wrong last night was not getting the puck to Matthews in the overtime when he was open.

 

[hockeynorth]

If you want to say the only thing Rielly did wrong last night was not getting the puck to Matthews in the overtime when he was open.

That was honestly funny

Like what goes through your head when you see Auston Matthews wide open for a one timer when the goalie isn't even considering him a threat yet

Shoot? Cause I know I would've given that thing away so quick

 

[Mickey Marner]

The problem is we're ass at developing defensemen. Holl is probably the best job we've done since, idk, Kaberle?

Rielly didn't have a competent coach until his third season or a competent partner until his fifth. He's basically a better version of the player we drafted, he hasn't really added dimensions to his game. After 500+ games he has poor gap control, doesn't establish leverage well or often enough in the corners, often fails to get his stick in lanes or tie up his man in front. I just don't think he ever puts it together defensively at this point.

His decision making (including indecisiveness) is also way down this year. We've probably all made note of how well Brodie has played two-on-ones this year, well, why do you think he's faced so many? Bad pinches from Rielly. Any amount of poise he had seems to have evaporated. Perhaps it's just more noticeable now that we have three other solid defensemen that can make routine plays, rather than a motley crue of shitheads, but he hasn't stood out in a good way.

 

[nuck]

Its a fan tradition to select and ride a whipping boy. There are a bunch of people on this board who spend 90% of their posts slagging their nemesis as though they actually believe relentless bashing makes them fans.

To me McCabe and Reilly are most similar in that they have clear assets and some obvious weaknesses so both get blamed because they aren't perfect. Dion was played over his head from nearly the instant they added him He was a 2nd pairing guy played as a # 1 and unlike Reilly the team never brought in a Muzzin to eat those hard minutes.

 

[HC7]

I wish Keefe would shelter his minutes a bit more. I feel like we have plenty of defensive players that would allow us to do this now.

He can't be much more sheltered...

Holl and Muzzin play every hard minute.