Is NYC just not an environment conducive to winning?

[Chaels Arms]

The problem is the Rangers are (or at least were) such a big destination spot for so many players and management has never had the self control needed to handle the temptations that come with that (see, e.g. Patrick Kane trade for no reason whatsoever, amongst many others).

There's always an older veteran player who really wants to play here so the team is never forced to prioritize youth. Look at an organization like the Devils. They know when they draft players like Hughes or Hischier those players HAVE to work out for them to have a chance of success so they manage their team to maximize those chances. Jesper Bratt is a sixth round draft pick who is over a PPG this season.

The Rangers on the other hand look at players like Lafreniere and Kakko as bonuses, not priorities.

 

[Machinehead]

It's not the same city, not the same environment.

What changed?

 

[Machinehead]

The problem is the Rangers are (or at least were) such a big destination spot for so many players and management has never had the self control needed to handle the temptations that come with that (see, e.g. Patrick Kane trade for no reason whatsoever, amongst many others).

There's always an older veteran player who really wants to play here so the team is never forced to prioritize youth. Look at an organization like the Devils. They know when they draft players like Hughes or Hischier those players HAVE to work out for them to have a chance of success so they manage their team to maximize those chances. Jesper Bratt is a sixth round draft pick who is over a PPG this season.

The Rangers on the other hand look at players like Lafreniere and Kakko as bonuses, not priorities.

We're hearing in this thread that the problem is that NYC both is and isn't a destination.

That probably indicates that the entire premise of the thread is wrong.

(Not directed at you. I more or less agree with you, but other teams in the city have handled having everyone available to them just fine.)

 

[Machinehead]

Also:

THE YANKEES WERE IN THE WORLD SERIES LIKE A HUNDRED DAYS AGO!!!

 

[Megustaelhockey]

Also:

THE YANKEES WERE IN THE WORLD SERIES LIKE A HUNDRED DAYS AGO!!!

They probably wish they hadn't been.

 

[alkurtz]

Sorry, not a NYC problem. What we have (I say we, although I live in NC, but as I always say, I'm a New Yorker who just happens to be living in NC...moved 6 years ago). What we have is horrible management across the board. The Mets? Before Steve Katz, the Wilpons. The Jets? Nothing needs to be said there, it speaks for itself. The Giants? Once they were good, but it's been a decade of horrendous coaching and management. Can't speak for the Yankees as I am a Mets fan, but I don't think Yankee fans are all that happy. Not really a Knicks fan or a basketball fan, but they've had their issues. Islanders? Devils?

I'm sorry, NYC is still a draw for athletes. I believe it is even so for hockey players (although Drury has set us back horrendously). European players are comfortable in NYC. Canadians still feel the attraction of an Original Six team. To play in the heart of midtown Manhattan? That is a draw for almost everyone except those who prefer the quiet of places like Raleigh (and some do). Ranger facilities, treatment, travel, etc? All first rate. For any young player...what could be better than young, talented, and wealthy in NYC (yes, I know, that could be too much of an attraction)?

Yes, we are hurt by taxes, but I don't see that as an issue for most players.

What Drury has created is a toxic work environment. I don't care if you are working flipper burgers at McDonalds, working in the stock room at Walmart, working in a school, in an accounting firm, in an IT firm, anywhere, I don't care if you are making minimum wage or millions of dollars a year. Toxic work environments impact productivity even among those who try to do the best work even when endless crap surrounds them. Millionaire athletes might be insanely genetically gifted, but in all other aspects, they are just like everyone else. Drury has made a mess. Perhaps the players didn't respond as we had hoped (or expected).

Sorry, this is not a NYC problem. This is a management problem.

 

[Roo Returns]

What changed?

From my earlier post:

-Technology; NY became less of a focal point for having to be there in person. Zoom, Teams, FaceTime, remote, outsourcing, etc. Other cities have been able to hype themselves and advertise as young, cooler, chiller, more open, etc.

-Infrastructure: the NYC subway is a century outdated. The highways are 60 years outdated.

-Restaurants: I'll give it pizza but NY's restaurant game is not what is was.

-Quality of living and expenses: there's a reason why population decline is a real problem.

-Safety: we're not quite back to the late 70s-80s, but nowhere near the 90s and 2000s when I used to go to concerts and record stores with friends and run around like an idiot looking for 3 AM pizza.

I can't really talk about the other factors because we're not allowed to discuss the p word here.

 

[Machinehead]

They probably wish they hadn't been.

Yeah but they still made it to the last round, which like, in the grand scheme of things, makes this premise kind of silly.

And also a New York team did literally just win. I'm attending a banner raising on May 17th. Sorry if you don't root for my team but that's a you problem.

 

[Machinehead]

From my earlier post:

-Technology; NY became less of a focal point for having to be there in person. Zoom, Teams, FaceTime, remote, outsourcing, etc. Other cities have been able to hype themselves and advertise as young, cooler, chiller, more open, etc.

-Infrastructure: the NYC subway is a century outdated. The highways are 60 years outdated.

-Restaurants: I'll give it pizza but NY's restaurant game is not what is was.

-Quality of living and expenses: there's a reason why population decline is a real problem.

-Safety: we're not quite back to the late 70s-80s, but nowhere near the 90s and 2000s when I used to go to concerts and record stores with friends and run around like an idiot looking for 3 AM pizza.

I can't really talk about the other factors because we're not allowed to discuss the p word here.

I mean, you can have whatever opinion you want on the city, but to suggest it's not a destination anymore is ridiculous to the point of parody.

If anything, I think most Rangers fans would argue that stars forcing their way here is a problem that there's too much of, rather than a resource that's disappearing.

Which may or may not be the actual issue, but people say it all the time, so I think we need to pick a lane here. Nobody wants to play in this shithole but also it's a country club that want to live as celebrities in New York rather than work hard at the rink. Schrodinger's shithole.

And I know women don't count because they're not even real people, but the Liberty won because every available player in 2023 colluded to come to New York and all of those players increased their endorsement income by orders of magnitude. So yeah, New York still works the way they say it works if the team isn't bad at the sport they're playing.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I do not think it is a great situation. Not an excuse but not an ideal situation. The Jets/Giants are in NJ. That is different. Very few Rangers live in NYC. Most live closer to the practice facility. I wonder what time they have to leave to get to games. There must be some stress having to battle traffic. Are the guys hanging out off the ice? That helps team bonding. All this can be overcome. It is not teh reason we do not win a cup. I'm just saying its not as ideal as some other situations.

 

[Roo Returns]

I mean, you can have whatever opinion you want on the city, but to suggest it's not a destination anymore is ridiculous to the point of parody.

If anything, I think most Rangers fans would argue that stars forcing their way here is a problem that there's too much of, rather than a resource that's disappearing.

Which may or may not be the actual issue, but people say it all the time, so I think we need to pick a lane here. Nobody wants to play in this shithole but also it's a country club that want to live as celebrities in New York rather than work hard at the rink. Schrodinger's shithole.

And I know women don't count because they're not even real people, but the Liberty won because every available player in 2023 colluded to come to New York and all of those players increased their endorsement income by orders of magnitude. So yeah, New York still works the way they say it works if the team isn't bad at the sport they're playing.

Whoa whoa whoa....this was never said and it's not a cool jab and such a classic internet "accusation". The WNBA only has 13 teams and as league is only 30 years old. A lot less choice and not as established as these centuries old leagues. A lot less roster spots It's a numbers thing.

Their owners also have a lower profile compared to the other NY teams.

I was actually super excited when they won and realize it doesn't have the reach. I actually advertised to all my coworkers a lot of whom are, you know, women, a lot of whom are you know, non-Caucasian, and I was the only person who seemed genuinely excited for it.

There are a million articles like:

https://www.timesunion.com/state/article/report-n-y-s-population-decrease-nearly-3-19919326.php

 

[Machinehead]

Whoa whoa whoa....this was never said. The WNBA only has 13 teams and as league is only 30 years old. A lot less choice and not as established as these centuries old leagues. It's a numbers thing.

I was actually super excited when they won and realize it doesn't have the reach. I actually advertised to all my coworkers a lot of whom are, you know, women, a lot of whom are you know, non-Caucasian, and I was the only person who seemed genuinely excited for it.

YOU may have done that, and good for you, so that wasn't necessarily directed at you, but generally speaking, I've been told it doesn't count.

And that's fine if it doesn't matter to you, just like I don't expect @Kane One or @Bob Richards to be satisfied that the Yankees went to the World Series, but it still goes against the premise of the thread.

Also, I get what you're saying about numbers, but like...we're talking about the NHL, sorry. I've seen every one of the Liberty's three big stars on commercials on national tv, and on billboards around the city. I've never seen Artemi Panarin, Igor Shesterkin, or Mika Zibanejad advertise to me.

If the WNBA doesn't count because it's niche then the NHL doesn't count because it's niche.

This thread is silly. The Rangers don't win because of the Rangers.

 

[Roo Returns]

YOU may have done that, and good for you, so that wasn't necessarily directed at you, but generally speaking, I've been told it doesn't count.

And that's fine if it doesn't matter to you, just like I don't expect @Kane One or @Bob Richards to be satisfied that the Yankees went to the World Series, but it still goes against the premise of the thread.

Also, I get what you're saying about numbers, but like...we're talking about the NHL, sorry. I've seen every one of the Liberty's three big stars on commercials on national tv, and on billboards around the city. I've never seen Artemi Panarin, Igor Shesterkin, or Mika Zibanejad advertise to me.

If the WNBA doesn't count because it's niche then the NHL doesn't count because it's niche.

This thread is silly. The Rangers don't win because of the Rangers.

NHL has been awful at marketing forever. That's on them for not including Fox in any of these Gen Z Golden Era commercials.

They had Scott Gomez as a star in a major market for how many years? Anze Kopitar should have taught all of North America about Slovenia.

Marketing in general is poor in all industries. Huge problem for Hollywood. That Mickey 17 movie should have done well. This new Marvel movie has Elaine from Seinfeld and if they're worried it's about C-List characters, use her as Elaine to break the fourth wall on TV spots.

Panarin and Igor can use the language barrier as an excuse. Mika doesn't look like he'd be bothered in a commercial, even with his alter ego as a DJ.

Will Cullye is a Star Wars nerd. I remember that from his draft interview. He also has personality. There you go, that's your marketing.

 

[Machinehead]

I do not think it is a great situation. Not an excuse but not an ideal situation. The Jets/Giants are in NJ. That is different. Very few Rangers live in NYC. Most live closer to the practice facility. I wonder what time they have to leave to get to games. There must be some stress having to battle traffic. Are the guys hanging out off the ice? That helps team bonding. All this can be overcome. It is not teh reason we do not win a cup. I'm just saying its not as ideal as some other situations.

But anything you could say is "not ideal" in New York is worse in other cities that have seen success.

I'll grant you that New York is old and some cities around the country are more trendy these days.

Not f***in LA. LA is old, is dirtier, has worse traffic, worse crime, and it's on fire all the time.

Since 2020, they have two World Series, an NBA Championship, I think the Rams had moved there when they won the Superbowl so that too, and both soccer teams are the class of MLS, trading MLS Cup back and forth the last couple years. Every major basketball star considers the Lakers and the Dodgers literally finish filling their lineup before anybody else talks to the free agents they didn't sign.

 

[Machinehead]

NHL has been awful at marketing forever. That's on them for not including Fox in any of these Gen Z Golden Era commercials.

They had Scott Gomez as a star in a major market for how many years? Anze Kopitar should have taught all of North America about Slovenia.

Marketing in general is poor in all industries. Huge problem for Hollywood. That Mickey 17 movie should have done well. This new Marvel movie has Elaine from Seinfeld and if they're worried it's about C-List characters, use her as Elaine to break the fourth wall on TV spots.

Panarin and Igor can use the language barrier as an excuse. Mika doesn't look like he'd be bothered in a commercial, even with his alter ego as a DJ.

Will Cullye is a Star Wars nerd. I remember that from his draft interview. He also has personality. There you go, that's your marketing.

Yes, I look forward to Will Cuylle going on a tour of the Far East to sign autographs, drawing thousands.

I'm not trying to argue whether basketball players or hockey players are bigger stars, in the same way I'm not trying to argue that 72 is a bigger number than 3. Point is, teams in this city, with enough following to be considered real teams, have won, so the thread is wrong.

Again, the Yankees were in the World Series last year.

 

[Roo Returns]

Yes, I look forward to Will Cuylle going on a tour of the Far East to sign autographs, drawing thousands.

I'm not trying to argue whether basketball players or hockey players are bigger stars, in the same way I'm not trying to argue that 72 is a bigger number than 3. Point is, teams in this city, with enough following to be considered real teams, have won, so the thread is wrong.

Again, the Yankees were in the World Series last year.

Can't wait!

 

[NickyFotiu]

But anything you could say is "not ideal" in New York is worse in other cities that have seen success.

I'll grant you that New York is old and some cities around the country are more trendy these days.

Not f***in LA. LA is old, is dirtier, has worse traffic, worse crime, and it's on fire all the time.

Since 2020, they have two World Series, an NBA Championship, I think the Rams had moved there when they won the Superbowl so that too, and both soccer teams are the class of MLS, trading MLS Cup back and forth the last couple years. Every major basketball star considers the Lakers and the Dodgers literally finish filling their lineup before anybody else talks to the free agents they didn't sign.

In my opinion it is not ideal nor is it the determining factor.

You can win in NY as a hockey team and lose in NY as a hockey team.

I felt it was easier on the Islander players playing on LI, living and practicing together in the 1980's.

If I was a Rangers player I would prefer a practice rink and playing rink really close so that I would not have to worry about leaving extra early to be on time. The Spurs did that for their NBA team.

Very few Rangers live in NYC. I would personally feel a little stress to get

 

[jniklast]

From my earlier post:

-Technology; NY became less of a focal point for having to be there in person. Zoom, Teams, FaceTime, remote, outsourcing, etc. Other cities have been able to hype themselves and advertise as young, cooler, chiller, more open, etc.

-Infrastructure: the NYC subway is a century outdated. The highways are 60 years outdated.

-Restaurants: I'll give it pizza but NY's restaurant game is not what is was.

-Quality of living and expenses: there's a reason why population decline is a real problem.

-Safety: we're not quite back to the late 70s-80s, but nowhere near the 90s and 2000s when I used to go to concerts and record stores with friends and run around like an idiot looking for 3 AM pizza.

I can't really talk about the other factors because we're not allowed to discuss the p word here.

Still, no international player dreams of playing (or living) in Detroit or St. Louis. It's New York and LA.

And there really is no indication at all, that New York is any kind of unwanted destination by the players. It's rather the opposite still. Maybe the Florida teams have a slight advantage with no income tax, but New York is somewhere at the top of most wanted destinations.

And if there is some problem with NY with regards to success it is exactly that (taking shortcuts with big ticket players) or maybe the increased media attention. But it's certainly not a problem of attractiveness.

Aanyway, I would just put it all down to below average management and maybe some bad luck (I mean the Rangers had very competitive teams in many of the last 15 years).

 

[Roo Returns]

Still, no international player dreams of playing (or living) in Detroit or St. Louis. It's New York and LA.

And there really is no indication at all, that New York is any kind of unwanted destination by the players. It's rather the opposite still. Maybe the Florida teams have a slight advantage with no income tax, but New York is somewhere at the top of most wanted destinations.

And if there is some problem with NY with regards to success it is exactly that (taking shortcuts with big ticket players) or maybe the increased media attention. But it's certainly not a problem of attractiveness.

Aanyway, I would just put it all down to below average management and maybe some bad luck (I mean the Rangers had very competitive teams in many of the last 15 years).

I'd say LA more recently with Othani Mania. I don't know of any athlete not from here who wants to come here and conquer the world. Sanders if the Giants do draft him, it's because "I don't want to be in Cleveland."

I'm curious if it's a Dallas/Tampa final this year.

 

[n8]

Nothing to do with the city and everything to do with pressures to win from owners.
New York LOVES winners. I think at least the majority of us will also put up with a rebuild when it's time.
Everyone seemed on board post "the letter" but Drury saw a little success and ran with it when winning was in sight. The team stumbled into success and was not prepared for failure. So a lot of what I see with this team is that they are mentally weak. You know that saying that you are the average of the 5 people you spend the most time with? Well, the Rangers have a lot of mopey sad faces and I feel like even fiery stick-slamming JT Miller looks that way the last few games. Players not celebrating goals is a red flag. I feel like they are collectively focusing on the negatives and not putting their energy towards the positives that you need to be a winner.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Nothing to do with the city and everything to do with pressures to win from owners.
New York LOVES winners. I think at least the majority of us will also put up with a rebuild when it's time.
Everyone seemed on board post "the letter" but Drury saw a little success and ran with it when winning was in sight. The team stumbled into success and was not prepared for failure. So a lot of what I see with this team is that they are mentally weak. You know that saying that you are the average of the 5 people you spend the most time with? Well, the Rangers have a lot of mopey sad faces and I feel like even fiery stick-slamming JT Miller looks that way the last few games. Players not celebrating goals is a red flag. I feel like they are collectively focusing on the negatives and not putting their energy towards the positives that you need to be a winner.

That is horrible. They work so hard for some goals and then nothing? So strange. Its not all of them but enough that its noticable.

 

[Roo Returns]

That is horrible. They work so hard for some goals and then nothing? So strange. Its not all of them but enough that its noticable.

I'm not saying all players but I kind of liked when Walter Payton scored a TD and just handed the ball to the referee.

 

[Roo Returns]

Nothing to do with the city and everything to do with pressures to win from owners.
New York LOVES winners. I think at least the majority of us will also put up with a rebuild when it's time.
Everyone seemed on board post "the letter" but Drury saw a little success and ran with it when winning was in sight. The team stumbled into success and was not prepared for failure. So a lot of what I see with this team is that they are mentally weak. You know that saying that you are the average of the 5 people you spend the most time with? Well, the Rangers have a lot of mopey sad faces and I feel like even fiery stick-slamming JT Miller looks that way the last few games. Players not celebrating goals is a red flag. I feel like they are collectively focusing on the negatives and not putting their energy towards the positives that you need to be a winner.

Well besides the Liberty last year and the NYFC in 2021 who both get a lot less coverage, we'd had nothing since the Giants beat the Patriots in January 2012 while all the cities in the Northeast other than Baltimore have had multiple championships...and even Baltimore won the Super Bowl in 2013.

 

[Bob Richards]

No.

Once again this looking for fantastical problems to fix when the real answer is boring. There is no undeniable siren song that distracts players from competing. The Rangers haven't won the Cup because they do not put together good enough teams. That's it.

 

[mas0764]

It starts with ownership.

The Rangers owner doesn’t seem to get it.