Toggle sidebar

Is McDavid Top 10 For You All Time Already? If Not How Much More Does He Have to do?

  • PLEASE check any bookmark on all devices. IF you see a link pointing to mandatory.com DELETE it Please use this URL https://forums.hfboards.com/
Status
Not open for further replies.
Dempsey

Dempsey

Mark it zero
Sponsor
Mar 1, 2002
3,355
1,839
Ladner, BC
KevinRedkey said:
Is Bourque only a top-10 defenceman because he won a cup at age 40?

IDK where I rank McDavid, but a team acheivement certainly isn't a qualifier for an individual ranking.
Click to expand...

It's the only thing they have left. They'll clutch onto this for the rest of time and if he does win a Cup they'll be a new "ya, but..." that comes up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Oilslick941611, SannywithoutCompy, The Gr8 Dane and 4 others

LEAFANFORLIFE23

Registered User
Jun 17, 2010
47,073
15,695
KevinRedkey said:
Is Bourque only a top-10 defenceman because he won a cup at age 40?

IDK where I rank McDavid, but a team acheivement certainly isn't a qualifier for an individual ranking.
Click to expand...

How many of the top 10 players of all time don't have at least 1 championship?

I'd argue 0, MAYBE there is 1

The top 5 all have them for sure.
 
KevinRedkey

KevinRedkey

12/18/23 and beyond!
Jan 22, 2010
10,396
5,632
LEAFANFORLIFE23 said:
How many of the top 10 players of all time don't have at least 1 championship?

I'd argue 0, MAYBE there is 1

The top 5 all have them for sure.
Click to expand...

Barry Bonds has no rings, but I assume you mean NHL specifically, which I agree with.

That said - winning in the salary cap world, with 30+ teams is a lot different than winning on a stacked team against next to zero European players.

It's kind of like asking why you can't rob a bank today, even though your ancestor did it on horseback. It's simply not as easy as it once was. One player can only do so much, and McDavid has arguably done as much or more than any individual has (in a playoff run), in the histoy of the league. Winning a team trophy doesn't discredit that.
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: BraveCanadian, Tom Brady, gary69 and 6 others
Elvs

Elvs

Registered User
Jul 3, 2006
12,335
4,766
Sweden
Dempsey said:
It's the only thing they have left. They'll clutch onto this for the rest of time and if he does win a Cup they'll be a new "ya, but..." that comes up.
Click to expand...

So if Edmonton turns this around and wins, we are not gonna add the cup to McDavid's resume then? Judging by your avatar, your favourite team could win the Stanley Cup and you still don't seem overly excited about playoff hockey.
 
Last edited:
CashMash

CashMash

Registered User
Jun 5, 2015
3,231
754
Finland
Coffey said:
People have no answers for the Bourque and Hasek paradoxes.
Click to expand...
Hasek has Nagano. 0.97 GAA. Beat star-studded teams.

In any case, I tend not to count goalies and skaters as the same. They are so different. Just complicates things... Even comparing Orr and McDavid would be difficult.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MrazeksVengeance

LEAFANFORLIFE23

Registered User
Jun 17, 2010
47,073
15,695
KevinRedkey said:
Barry Bonds has no rings, but I assume you mean NHL specifically, which I agree with.

That said - winning in the salary cap world, with 30+ teams is a lot different than winning on a stacked team against next to zero European players.

It's kind of like asking why you can't rob a bank today, even though your ancestor did it on horseback. It's simply not as easy as it once was. One player can only do so much, and McDavid has arguably done as much or more than any individual has (in a playoff run), in the histoy of the league. Winning a team trophy doesn't discredit that.
Click to expand...

I was refering to NHL but yes there are examples in other sports.

In the NHL there MIGHT be one but I don't think so
 

ijuka

Registered User
May 14, 2016
23,107
16,259
Coffey said:
People have no answers for the Bourque and Hasek paradoxes.
Click to expand...
It's so strange how eager people are to rate players by team achievements. Hell, isn't it EASIER to be a great player when your team is great, than when your team is bad? So shouldn't great individual performances be valued MORE when your team isn't performing? I guess i just don't understand how people see things.

Yes, the cup matters, but that's never won by one or two players. It's won by a couple dozen players, collectively. Patrick Kane's cup is also Sheldon Brookbank's cup. A Cup is a far easier trophy to get than something like Art Ross or Rocket, whatever people like to believe. All you need to do to get a cup is to happen to be on the right team, and to contribute at a decent level for your salary level.

Dion TheFluff said:
yup. Will easily be top 5 by the end of his career. Guy is just on another level
Click to expand...
He alrady is top 5, what do you mean "by the end of his career"?
 
  • Like
Reactions: gary69, The Gr8 Dane and Wulfgar
Dead Coyote

Dead Coyote

Registered User
Oct 10, 2017
2,779
3,326
It doesn't make any sense to me how you could not have McDavid top 10.

The only guy outside of Lemieux who has come close to breaking Gretzky's point record for the playoffs, a guy who has a near 1.5 points per game in his career, a guy who's peak season puts him 4th all time in points and the only player to achieve that in the salary cap era. Only Gretzky, Lemieux, McDavid, Nicholls, Esposito and Yzerman have put up 150 points in a season. This year Kucherov and Mackinnon both got 140ish and McDavid got 132, but like...that's pretty impressive company.

It's not like his hardware is lacking either considering he has 5 rosses, 3 harts and a Richard, and is likely to add a Smythe and another Hart this year and was 2 3 and 5 in his other years for Harts and also has 4 Pearsons.

Like it's literally just the cup and number of seasons but guys like Orr and Lemieux are above him with similar problems and McDavid doesn't have an injury history. I find it hard to believe he isn't in the top 10, top 5 very debatable but top 10? Only guys ahead of him for me are Ovechkin, Jagr, Beliveau, Howe and possibly Crosby. Of course you'll see guys have Harvey, Lafleur, Bourque, Morenz etc above him too, but even in the ATD thread this year he was at 16, it's obviously a lot closer than people think it is, and if you value this era, the salary cap, and pure skill/talent it's pretty hard to make an argument that he isn't.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MrazeksVengeance and wetcoast
Dion TheFluff

Dion TheFluff

Registered User
Jun 22, 2015
4,111
3,607
ijuka said:
It's so strange how eager people are to rate players by team achievements. Hell, isn't it EASIER to be a great player when your team is great, than when your team is bad? So shouldn't great individual performances be valued MORE when your team isn't performing? I guess i just don't understand how people see things.

Yes, the cup matters, but that's never won by one or two players. It's won by a couple dozen players, collectively. Patrick Kane's cup is also Sheldon Brookbank's cup. A Cup is a far easier trophy to get than something like Art Ross or Rocket, whatever people like to believe. All you need to do to get a cup is to happen to be on the right team, and to contribute at a decent level for your salary level.


He alrady is top 5, what do you mean "by the end of his career"?
Click to expand...
He probably doesn't have the longevity yet to be considered a top 5 player over the likes of Howe, Hasek, Jagr, Crosby, and Ovechkin yet IMO. If we're just talking peak and prime then yeah, definitely a top 5 player.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cupface52, MrazeksVengeance and Wulfgar
Fourier

Fourier

Registered User
Dec 29, 2006
26,557
21,922
Waterloo Ontario
LEAFANFORLIFE23 said:
How many of the top 10 players of all time don't have at least 1 championship?

I'd argue 0, MAYBE there is 1

The top 5 all have them for sure.
Click to expand...
Howe for example won his championships when there were 6 teams and on teams with multiple HHoF'ers. In fact he played 20 years in a 60 league team. Expectation would be over that period that a random team would win 3.33 championships.

In Howe's first cup win he played 1 game and had 0 points. In the second win he had 2 goals and 7 assist in 8 games. He tied in points on the WIngs with Linsey and Metro Prystai. In his third cup he had 9 points in 12 games, this time tied with Delvechio and one ahead on Lindsey. Dickey Moore led the playoffs that year with 13 in 11. In his fourth cup He had 20 in 11. That was his most dominant cup run offensively but still only one point more than Lindsey who had 19 in 11. By the way the Wings goalies that year were Sawchuk and Hall.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cupface52 and MrazeksVengeance
VistamarCroissants

VistamarCroissants

Registered User
Apr 19, 2024
43
39
Based on what McDavid has achieved so far:
Certainly above Crosby. Probably in the area of #8-#15 all time

Dion TheFluff said:
He probably doesn't have the longevity yet to be considered a top 5 player over the likes of Howe, Hasek, Jagr, Crosby, and Ovechkin yet IMO. If we're just talking peak and prime then yeah, definitely a top 5 player.
Click to expand...
you forgot Robert Gordon Orr
 

beardawg

Registered User
Feb 12, 2015
759
561
Washington, DC
He's top 5 and still has the chance to put together the singular most impressive post-season in history, if Edmonton does a reverse sweep. The Conn Smythe is his too, win or lose
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Latest posts

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

Top Bottom
X