Is mcdavid too good not to win a cup?

This witch hunt against Skinner is ridiculous. So many average goaltenders have been in Stanley Cup Finals in the last 10 years. The Oilers built a crap team around McDavids deservedly high cap hit. If he stays in Edm, it will be more of the same for the next 9 years.

Panthers - Bob
Oilers - Skinner

Knights - Hill/Broissoit
Panthers - Bob

Avalanche - Kuemper/Francouz
Lightning - Vasi

Lightning - Vasi
Habs - Price

Lightning - Vasi
Stars - Khudobin

Blues - Binner
Bruns - Rask

Capitals - Holtby
Knights -Fleury

Pens - Fleury/Murray
Preds - Rinne

Pens - Murray
Sharks - Jones

Hawks - Crawford
Lightning - Bishop
 
Personally I don't think it's possible unless he is the greediest player in NHL history and literally only cares about money (which doesn't strike me at all as his personality).

He is currently at 1.6ppg in the playoffs, even if he drops to 1ppg, that would make him the 9th best in the NHL which would basically mean into his mid-late 30s he would pretty easily be a top 10 asset for any contending team. And that's assuming a massive dropoff from 1.6 to 1.

At that point he could sign some insanely team friendly deal to stack a contender and win at least one cup. Sid's nearly 40 and still putting up insane numbers and could contribute massively should he go to a playoff team.

Anyways, I personally just don't see how anyone could blame him when he leads the league in playoff ppg (5th in gpg). When you look at that list, it's literally him/Drai and other guys who have won/won a ton. He is literally nearly at Lemieux's level (1.59 vs 1.61) and people are blaming a guy who is only behind Gretzky/Lemieux for playoff ppg. It's insanity to me, especially when you look at the decade of Edmonton's #1 D/G who are abysmal relative to the other all time greats' teams.

Who's blaming him?
 
McDavid is near Lemieux levels playoff production
Skinner is one of the worst goalies in recent playoffs

Obviously McDavid needs to step up and become Gretzky, his poor Lemieux efforts aren't cutting it.

Nah man, McDavid needed to step sideways and produce at McDavid levels in a winner take all game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals. He didn't do that, and that's 'obviously' Stuart Skinner's fault.
 
He needs to take a real look in the mirror and realize that he can win a cup but the whole waiting at the blue line and blowing past defenders while the puck is still deep in his zone isn't how you win. Sadly its just not.

Also 18 millions a year is too much, take a pay cut Connor. And sign in Montréal while youre at it.
 
No teams top star is their best player every single game and responsible for winning every single game. Expecting McDavid to win the game for the Oilers every single time is stupidity. The game winning goal in game 7 was a weak garbage goal and all Skinner's fault. You are not going to win every game 5-4, sometimes you need to win a tight, low scoring game, especially in the playoffs, and you can't afford to have a starting goalie who regularly gives up weak goals at key times in games. Skinner has done this since he entered the NHL and he was lousy for most of the playoffs last season. I believe he has some of the worst playoff goalie stats in the entire salary cap era for goalies.

I don't blame him for how this series is going but he is a liability and shouldn't be a Cup contenders starting goalie.

No one's expecting McDavid to win every single game for the Oilers (or if they are, that's not even close to reasonable). But I do think it's reasonable to expect your best players to make an impact in a Stanley Cup Final game 7 however you define that. For McDavid, his game is built around pure offense, so to make an impact he needs to factor in on the offense. He was held completely off the scoresheet in last year's game 7, and his team lost by a single goal.

Regarding Skinner, like I said I absolutely do NOT think it's reasonable to blame him for McDavid's lack of production in game 7. Especially since Skinner played an ok game (2 goals off 21 shots). Just rewatched highlights, the second goal wasn't terrible (we've all seen worse) and he made a ridiculous stop on Tkachuk with like 15 mins left in the third. Skinner definitely played well enough to give his team a chance to win, that loss was not on him. And yes, like you said sometimes you need to win a tight, low scoring game in the playoffs, but in order to win those games I think most would generally accept the fact that if you only score a single goal you're probably going to lose.




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In the future, should the Oilers hang on to Skinner? Of course it depends on who else is available, but yeah, probably they should upgrade in goal if they can. He wasn't the reason they lost last year though, that's the main point I've been making
 
No one's expecting McDavid to win every single game for the Oilers (or if they are, that's not even close to reasonable). But I do think it's reasonable to expect your best players to make an impact in a Stanley Cup Final game 7 however you define that. For McDavid, his game is built around pure offense, so to make an impact he needs to factor in on the offense. He wasn't able to in last year's game 7.

Moreover, like I said I absolutely do NOT think it's reasonable to blame the goalie McDavid's lack of production. Especially since Skinner played an ok game (2 goals off 21 shots). Just rewatched highlights, the second goal wasn't terrible (we've all seen worse) and he made a ridiculous stop on Tkachuk with like 15 mins left in the third. Skinner definitely played well enough to give his team a chance to win, that loss was not on him. And yes, like you said sometimes you need to win a tight, low scoring game in the playoffs, but in order to win those games I think most would generally accept the fact that if you only score a single goal you're probably going to lose.

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In the future, should the Oilers hang on to Skinner? It of course depends on who else is available, but yeah, probably they should upgrade if they can. He wasn't the reason they lost last year though, that's the main point I've been making
It's no one players sole fault for the Oilers losing in the playoffs last season, but what I do know is McDavid is one of the best players in NHL history and Stuart Skinner is a backup goalie and one of the worst starting goalies in the NHL today. Skinner almost lost them their series against the Canucks all by himself and had an under .900 save percentage in half of the playoffs games he played while the Oilers allowed the fewest shots on net per game of any team that played past the first round. McDavid on the other hand was playoff MVP and had a playoff performance only players like Gretzky and Lemieux have ever had.

To suggest Skinner wasn't a liability in last seasons playoffs based on one game where he allowed a bad game winning goal against versus a really strong defensive team is laughable when he was so bad so often in those playoffs. McDavid on the other hand was responsible for them making one of the greatest playoff series comebacks of all time. Yeah, lets blame McDavid for them not winning the Cup. Not the other 17 skaters in the lineup who could have scored a key goal or Skinner could have come up big for them to get the win also. Skinner only ever seems to make a big save after blowing the game by letting in a weak goal, he rarely ever seems make a quality save when the Oilers have the lead or it's a tie game, which is why he is not a starting goalie. You can expect a starting goalie to make big saves for your team, you can't ever expect that out of Skinner, you can barely expect him to make saves he should make.

We can agree to disagree on this one.
 
One player can't drag a team to a championship. It's absurd that we judge people based on not winning cups in a 32-team league, where the average team statistically only wins 3 cups per century.

Imagine you're the best salesperson on earth, and in spite of hitting 240% of annual sales targets year in and year out, you get blamed for the company going bankrupt because it can't figure out its supply chain costs and has manufacturing problems.

As a reminder, a hockey team involves six position players for 60 minutes of ice time, or a total 360 minutes of ice time per game. McDavid averages about 23 minutes per game in the playoffs.

How is someone who represents ~6% of the on-ice effort responsible for the overall playoffs outcome?
 
One player can't drag a team to a championship. It's absurd that we judge people based on not winning cups in a 32-team league, where the average team statistically only wins 3 cups per century.

I get what you are saying, but what if we flip the question... If McDavid wins a cup, do we not give him any credit then? Would it not count to his legacy? Will people say: "Meh, it's a team sport"? I think not.
 
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It's no one players sole fault for the Oilers losing in the playoffs last season, but what I do know is McDavid is one of the best players in NHL history and Stuart Skinner is a backup goalie and one of the worst starting goalies in the NHL today. Skinner almost lost them their series against the Canucks all by himself and had an under .900 save percentage in half of the playoffs games he played while the Oilers allowed the fewest shots on net per game of any team that played past the first round. McDavid on the other hand was playoff MVP and had a playoff performance only players like Gretzky and Lemieux have ever had.

To suggest Skinner wasn't a liability in last seasons playoffs based on one game where he allowed a bad game winning goal against versus a really strong defensive team is laughable when he was so bad so often in those playoffs. McDavid on the other hand was responsible for them making one of the greatest playoff series comebacks of all time. Yeah, lets blame McDavid for them not winning the Cup. Not the other 17 skaters in the lineup who could have scored a key goal or Skinner could have come up big for them to get the win also. Skinner only ever seems to make a big save after blowing the game by letting in a weak goal, he rarely ever seems make a quality save when the Oilers have the lead or it's a tie game, which is why he is not a starting goalie. You can expect a starting goalie to make big saves for your team, you can't ever expect that out of Skinner, you can barely expect him to make saves he should make.

We can agree to disagree on this one.

Fair enough -- looks like we're going to end up agreeing to disagree on this but I want to make very clear what I mean before someone else comes in with a strawman that I'm not actually arguing.

First of all, I'm not saying it's 100% solely McDavid's fault they lost game 7. I put that game down to Edm offense mostly being shut down by a very good defensive effort by Florida. Some credit goes to Florida (incl the coaching staff), some blame goes to Edm's lack of offense of which McDavid is probably the biggest part. And yet, Edmonton had a top-5 offense with so many stars, superstars (and decent scoring depth), if players like RNH or Hyman or Corey Perry or Dylan Holloway had chipped in (like some of them did against Vancouver game 7), then this is a completely different conversation. I'm also saying that if McDavid had produced in that game at his usual level, I personally believe it very likely that the Oilers win the cup.

Second, I'm only talking about Skinner's performance in Game 7 of the finals, not throughout the entire playoffs. In gm 7, I wouldn't consider his performance a liability, but even if you want to argue that it was, the offense still needs to score more than one goal in order for the team to realistically expect to win. And yes, McDavid is one of the best players in NHL history but that doesn't excuse the offense drying up, if anything it probably makes it worse because we all know how dynamic he can be.

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Regarding prior playoffs, I'm not an OIlers fan, though I tuned into random 3rd periods here and there. Not enough to form an informed opinion on Skinner's play prior to the Western Conference Final. If he was a liability earlier in the playoffs, then fine -- I didn't see enough Oilers games to have a strong opinion either way.

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Anyway though my larger point is that SCF gm 7 was decided by Edm's offense letting them down (or Fla's defensive effort shutting them down), neither of those has anything to do with Stuart Skinner's goaltending performance in gm7. I honestly do not blame Skinner, at all, for the Oilers losing that game (and therefore, the cup).
 
So far every geneerational player, at least from generations I remember, won at least once, usually more...

But fact that it never happened for such high class player to not win, doesn't mean it will never happen. He's only one player after all, and impact of a single player is really limited in NHL.
 

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