Is mcdavid too good not to win a cup?

[toddkaz]

We saw that he almost willed his team to a Stanley cup last year. Will he win one in his career or not?

So....We can choose yes or we can choose no and then McDavid will win according to the results?

 

[bambamcam4ever]

MAF was a .906 sv% and a 2.61 GAA in 2009. Skinner was a .901 sv% and 2.45 GAA in 2024.

The Pens won in 2017 without LeTang.

Why not admit that Crosby's game is simply more versatile than McDavid's?

Crosby won without Letang yet the Oilers couldn't even win when they had a healthy Ekholm

 

[Nadal On Clay]

He will probably end up winning at least one.

The real question is whether or not he will be playing at the best player in the world level we’ve seen for him in the playoffs for the last couple of years while doing so or if he’s going to do it in more of a complementary role in the twilight years of his career.

 

[Toby91ca]

He will probably end up winning at least one.

The real question is whether or not he will be playing at the best player in the world level we’ve seen for him in the playoffs for the last couple of years while doing so or if he’s going to do it in more of a complementary role in the twilight years of his career.

Good question. It is really strange. On one hand, you can obviously suggest, I don't care how good one player is, he's not able to win a championship without having a good supporting cast, it just doesn't happen in hockey. On the other hand, if you look at the greatest players of all time (subjective ranking of course).....they've all won a cup. Now, you can make the argument it was easier to do so in the past, well, not just an argument, it was factually easier to do so....less teams, it's just math, but also subjectively easier because you might have great players wanting to go play with great players and it was easier to do so in prior eras.

In the modern era though, you've had some great teams being able to compete and win a lot (CHI, PIT, TB). I think you need to get lucky with drafting.....generational players don't come along that often....by definition, and if you get one, those types of guys do make players around them better....some better than others. McDavid hasn't done that any less than Crosby, for example. The challenge then becomes being able to compete for the cup during a period of time. A lot of times, it's hard to keep players if they get too good, too expensive to keep everyone together, so their tends to be a smaller window of time.

You can say all those types of things and then there is also the luck factor and the health factor.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Those apples and that goal in the third period by McDavid is some of the most ridiculous individual playoff put the team on his back efforts I've seen by a player and he has like 10 of those on his resume lol.

What an absolute monster

 

[nbwingsfan]

MAF was a .906 sv% and a 2.61 GAA in 2009. Skinner was a .901 sv% and 2.45 GAA in 2024.

The Pens won in 2017 without LeTang.

Why not admit that Crosby's game is simply more versatile than McDavid's?

Do you think Edmonton wins the Cup last season with Crosby instead of McDavid?

 

[nbwingsfan]

The Penguins had Rob Scuderin and Hal Gill as their second pairing.

Hall Gill was an incredible shut down D.

The Edmonton guys couldn’t shut down a Bantam hockey player. Who have to help one of the worst starters in the entire NHL.

 

[Volica]

He should.
It'd be a shame if a player of that caliber got none in his career.

I mean Yzerman was in his 30's before he got his, and he ended up with three by the time he was done.

I don't think this is a failure on the part of McDavid, this is a failure on the part of the Edmonton Oilers if they don't win one.

 

[olafsson]

Not winning one with Edmonton that’s for sure. If he is to win one, it’ll be with some other team

 

[Siidekik]

He definitely deserves one, but I think Oilers management is too incompetent to help him get one. I mean did they seriously think going into the playoffs with Stuart Skinner as your starter was a good idea? Everyone around the world was screaming for them to make a trade for a legit goalie. Only way he wins one now is if he leaves in free agency

 

[Regal]

Crosby had a 50% GF% at 5v5 in the Pens 2nd and 3rd cup wins combined. There’s zero chance any version of the McDavid Oilers would win the cup if he broke even 5v5. Crosby’s a great player, and I’m not criticizing those playoff performances, but the idea that there’s something about his game that leads to winning that McDavid doesn’t possess is a crock of shit.

 

[Herby]

It's way more difficult in modern hockey, with how many teams there are and the cap. If he does, great, if he doesn't (especially while scoring at an all-time great pace), his career is way less?

Take a guy like Ray Bourque, there is a decent chance that if Bryan Smolinski scores (instead of hitting the post) on a gaping 6x4 from about 15 feet out that Ray Bourque doesn't win a Stanley Cup in 2001. So the fact that Smolinski missed a shot a peewee would score on, it drastically changes how we might view Bourque as a player?

In some parallel universe that Smolinski scores and the Avs lose in the 2nd round that year, they view Bourque as less of a great? Seems odd to me, but to each his own.

 

[Cool Hand Puke]

I’m going to ask for a 3rd time now:

If Edmonton replaced McDavid with any forward in the NHl, your pick, do they win that game?

We can play the what if game until your blue in the face… we don’t know.

If my grandmother had wheels, she’d be a bicycle.

 

[NVious]

He will probably end up winning at least one.

The real question is whether or not he will be playing at the best player in the world level we’ve seen for him in the playoffs for the last couple of years while doing so or if he’s going to do it in more of a complementary role in the twilight years of his career.

It depends on his monetary/contractual appetite on how many he wins IMO.

Look at Crosby, he could be an insanely useful player (understatement of the year) for a contending team as a 2C or 1A/1B C and he's nearly 40 putting up well over ppg. McDavid may have an even higher floor.

If he gets "desperate" he can always go and take some cheap contract into his late 30s where I have no doubts he will still be an insanely good player and win cups.

Crosby could still be winning cups himself if he really wanted to and I see McDavid aging in the same way.

Personally I don't see any world where he ends up with zero, the absolute worst case scenario even is where he's a 20-40 guy into his 40s as a fantastic 3C on a league min still would be massive for many contenders.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Crosby had a 50% GF% at 5v5 in the Pens 2nd and 3rd cup wins combined. There’s zero chance any version of the McDavid Oilers would win the cup if he broke even 5v5. Crosby’s a great player, and I’m not criticizing those playoff performances, but the idea that there’s something about his game that leads to winning that McDavid doesn’t possess is a crock of shit.

McDavid is never in a position to break even at 5v5 because he plays so much with Draisaitl. Like his line had 0 SOG in game 1 when he wasn't playing with Draisaitl. He's barely above 50% in his playoff career at 5v5 without Draisaitl, and only rose above that level late in the playoffs last year because Edmonton ties his ice time to their two best Dmen, Ekholm and Bouchard, to a degree not really seen in the rest of the league.

 

[Frank Drebin]

The penguins teams of 07-18 are no match for the mcdavid era oilers.

There has been some sort of dead space on the cap due to buyouts for the oilers since mcdavid joined, and there is still dead cap today from Jack Campbell.

I don’t think the penguins allowed 2 former first rounders to sign unmatched offer sheets either.

Heck, the penguins even tried to get maf help by acquiring vokoun for a season.

Poor signings, poor trades, poor drafting and the insistence on going back to Stuart skinner year after year, after year has killed any chance of mcdavid winning a cup in Edmonton ever.

 

[Regal]

McDavid is never in a position to break even at 5v5 because he plays so much with Draisaitl. Like his line had 0 SOG in game 1 when he wasn't playing with Draisaitl. He's barely above 50% in his playoff career at 5v5 without Draisaitl, and only rose above that level late in the playoffs last year because Edmonton ties his ice time to their two best Dmen, Ekholm and Bouchard, to a degree not really seen in the rest of the league.

So when in a similar position to Crosby with linemates, he does as well. Got it

 

[blankall]

I don't think it's fair to blame McDavid's linemates. Edmonton has done a pretty good job of bringing in a supporting cast. The problem now is that the team is so old.

Kane - turning 34
Perry - turning 40
Arvidsson - 32
Henrique - 35
Hyman - turning 33
RNH - 32

That's not a recipe for success.

There's been poor development of forwards, poor asset management, and the team is running out of gas. Draisaitl and McDavid are 29 and 28; how long can you keep double shifting them for?

In 2026/27 there's a chance to overall things, but also the year that McDavid becomes a UFA.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

He is young. Odds are on his side to win it.

He's not that young anymore. He's 28.
You might think '28 isn't that old, he's probably played for less than half of the years that he'll end up playing for'. And that might be true.
But it's also true that players very rarely win the Cup as the best player on their team when they're over 30.

 

[nbwingsfan]

We can play the what if game until your blue in the face… we don’t know.

If my grandmother had wheels, she’d be a bicycle.

Once again avoiding it…. Do you THINK they’d win the game with another forward? And if so, why?

 

[Cool Hand Puke]

Once again avoiding it…. Do you THINK they’d win the game with another forward? And if so, why?

First off, I’m not the one you apparently told multiple times. Secondly, if McDavid played more defense… edmonton would be much better. MacKinnon is constantly backchecking and playing defense even on his non scoring nights. So in that regard, if you exchange McDavid for MacKinnon, they would be much closer to winning. You are talking about the four nations mvp after all.

 

[landy]

First off, I’m not the one you apparently told multiple times. Secondly, if McDavid played more defense… edmonton would be much better. MacKinnon is constantly backchecking and playing defense even on his non scoring nights.

4 points in game one, all even strength. +1 "only".

Hm and Leon are atrocious defensively and always cheating the zone.

 

[Grifter3511]

Crosby won without Letang yet the Oilers couldn't even win when they had a healthy Ekholm

Out of curiousity, who is Edmonton's Guentzel and Kessel? I guess Hyman and Nuge are the comparables?

Also, does Pittsburgh win if they're facing the 2024 Florida Panthers? Conversely, do the Oilers win last year if they are facing the 2017 Predators?

 

[Cool Hand Puke]

4 points in game one, all even strength. +1 "only".

Hm and Leon are atrocious defensively and always cheating the zone.

Right? It doesn’t matter if you put up 4 points a game if you are constantly giving up 3 at the same time. Because that means the rest of your team has to have a perfect game to win. Which doesn’t happen.

 

[Cool Hand Puke]

Out of curiousity, who is Edmonton's Guentzel and Kessel?

Also, does Pittsburgh win if they're facing the 2024 Florida Panthers? Conversely, do the Oilers win last year if they are facing the 2017 Predators?

People will really use any made up metric and what if to prove some point… the cup is what matters, end of discussion. No what if is going to change that. It reeks of desperation