Is mcdavid too good not to win a cup?

[Legion34]

With the cap (outside of tax advantages) everyone is on a an equal playing field.

Playing 1/3 of a game on 1/32 teams many great players will not win a cup.

 

[Legion34]

How many of those won 3 Harts? McDavid is not a regular Hall of Famer. If they inducted Hall of Famers into a Hall of Famer Hall of Fame McDavid would be one of them.

McDavid could stop playing today and be a first ballot hall of famer

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

McDavid could stop playing today and be a first ballot hall of famer

That would have been true four seasons ago.

 

[the_fan]

I think McDavid is too good for the Stanley Cup. They need to make a new, more prestige championship trophy just for him

 

[Legion34]

I think McDavid is too good for the Stanley Cup. They need to make a new, more prestige championship trophy just for him

A JT amulet you win in The “DIG. IN” derby. Which he wins every year.

 

[NVious]

I think McDavid is too good for the Stanley Cup. They need to make a new, more prestige championship trophy just for him

And when he wins it, he just goes to the locker room and doesn't even come out and do anything with the trophy.

 

[Nikki Potnick]

All the all time greats have won one. If he doesn't he'd, easily, be the best player to never have won one. It wouldn't be his fault, especially with a Conn Smythe. But hockey is a team sport, so one player can only do so much. I don't care for the Oilers, but I do hope he's able to win one at some point.

 

[Praetorian Caps]

If Gretzky chose to play his entire career with a team that only had fourth line goons, he wouldn't win any cups.

It's a team sport. A single player can drive up a team's performance for deep playoff runs where they wouldn't have gotten nearly as far without that player. But last playoffs is a good example that the team you surround a superstar with matters.

McDavid and Draisaitl went crazy and they were very close to winning it all but they fell short. McDavid can't really do anything about the Oilers not having better defense and goaltending short of taking a massive pay cut when he negotiated his contract but no one expects superstars to do that.

Tom Brady took team friendly deals but that's very very rare.

 

[SirKillalot]

They didn't have Hossa in 2009 and Gonchar was playing injured after OV's cheapshot in round 2. The team wasn't notably playing a run and gun style to suit their star forwards' strengths.

So one guy was injured and not using "run & gun style" is the excuse for them playing well as a team? Okay.

And still love the bitterness about losing in 2009. Are you one those who blames the NHL for starting the SCF too soon?

It wasn't bitter, it was just facts. You can't say they lacked support in your opinion and then don't agree with that Detroit overall was a better team and should have won. But, they played good defensively cause they had character guys and I think they had more support than you thus they won and Detroit got some crucial injuries which wasn't helpful for them. Datsyuk played just 16 out of the games with a fractured foot and Lidstrom had his balls torn by a spear. That had very much to do with how it went, when you got a top 3 all time d-man out and arguable the best player in the league at the time both out/injured.

Though they should have won it anyway.

And no don't blame the NHL. It's how the game is.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Let me ask you this. Replace McDavid with any single forward in the NHL.

Do you think Edmonton comes anywhere close to winning the game?

Also weak turnover? He’s looking to get the puck in deep, LA D did a good job knocking it down, Bouchard decided to pinch because ?????? And the Skinner let in a shot he could have got bare handed it was floating so slow.

People truly will see whatever they want to see, and its sad and hilarious at the same time

Bouchard decided to pinch because that's what Edmonton does. It creates offensive opportunities for them and you can't give McDavid all the individual credit and cast blame only on his teammates when it doesn't work out.

If you see your dman that deep and not in position to get back to defend if the puck is turned over, maybe you should hang back.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

McDavid both created two goals with the goalie pulled to tie it and also a minute later blew the game. He gets his points but he doesn't play the right way.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Bouchard decided to pinch because that's what Edmonton does. It creates offensive opportunities for them and you can't give McDavid all the individual credit and cast blame only on his teammates when it doesn't work out.

If you see your dman that deep and not in position to get back to defend if the puck is turned over, maybe you should hang back.

I’m going to ask for a 3rd time now:

If Edmonton replaced McDavid with any forward in the NHl, your pick, do they win that game?

 

[Iggys Dome]

He probably has a ring if he gets drafted anywhere else other than Edmonton.

 

[crowfish]

Nitpicking a turnover in a game where his team was down 4-0 with 22 minutes left and then he goes supernova for 3 primary assists & a goal to tie it 5-5 with 1 minute to go is insane. The dude put up a legendary performance.

 

[ozzie]

Not sure there is such a thing as a player too good. He doesn't play goalie and it's a team game with great systems and coaching. He's currently the best player to never win a cup, already passed Dionne for that distinction. That's the cold hard truth. Much as it would be better to win it in Edmonton, I wouldn't be mad if he pulls a Bourque either.

Imagine if Ovie didn't have one in the bag already or if Yzerman never won.

The good news is, I thought Crosby would never get a sniff again at a cup after going to the finals twice. Pengions then went back to back after his injuries, so anything can happen.

 

[daver]

So if McDavid’s wingers are placed on RNH’s line(Phil Kessel equivalent) you can say with absolute certainty that his line will perform like HBK 2016?. I highly doubt that. You can’t use that 2016 blueprint for every team, because every player on that third line outperformed their actual ability massively, and that is difficult to replicate. That 2016 performance is not superstar level, and Crosby had great luck with goaltending and his teammates stepping up. I highly doubt an NHL coach goes "Let's have the best player in the world go under ppg and a negative +-, but don't worry, I count on our third line to even up the scoring". No one can generate anything outside McDrai on the Oilers, and adding wingers to RNH won’t change that.

The reference was to 2009. Place McDavid on the 2009 Pens and tell me what happens.

Crosby was an exceptional 2-way player in 2016. Too bad it's not sexy enough for people to appreciate. Too bad McDavid isn't versatile enough to play that role if needed.

 

[daver]

So one guy was injured and not using "run & gun style" is the excuse for them playing well as a team? Okay.

The Oilers have the two highest scoring playoff forwards, by a decent amount, and yet the Oilers have a losing playoff record since 16/17. Tell me we shouldn't put some context on their numbers rather than comparing them, or McDavid at least, to ONLY Wayne and Mario.

Crosby lead in the league in scoring in the 2008 playoffs and got his Pens within 2 wins of the Cup. Coming into that SCF, the Pens were playing very solid team defense, along with MAF playing very goog, something they weren't necessarily known for in the regular season. They were at a 1.86 GAA before the SCF, the same GAA the Wings up ended with; the clear best Cup winner since the lockout.

The 2022 Oilers were at a 3.69 GAA; easily the worst GAA by a team that made it to CF in the past 30 years.
Do you think that a comparison of their PPGs, 1.35 to 2.06, is not in need of some context?

 

[TheLegend27]

The reference was to 2009. Place McDavid on the 2009 Pens and tell me what happens.

Crosby was an exceptional 2-way player in 2016. Too bad it's not sexy enough for people to appreciate. Too bad McDavid isn't versatile enough to play that role if needed.

I mean… You said it yourself Crosby 2008=McDavid 2024. If Crosby played worse in 2009 than the previous season, then McDavid probably reaches the finals, and
Might win it if Malkin’s performance stays status quo.

Crosby had good two-way play in 2016, but with a minus in the playoffs, he needed scoring to come from elsewhere. The Pens, unlike the Oilers could actually score without Crosby/Malkin on the ice, which is why McDavid and Draisaitl play together often, they are chasing the game. it’s easier for Crosby to focus on defense knowing his linemates can hold their own and have goal-scoring streaks without him or Malkin on the ice. Letang was also extremely potent at relieving zone pressure and elite defensively during that run, boosting Crosby’s defensive stats along with Murray. It’s not that McDavid isn’t versatile enough to play that role if needed; that role can’t be played with the current roster construction. The Pens actually had solid goaltending and defenders on the roster, the Oilers lost their only one with Ekholm.

 

[daver]

It wasn't bitter, it was just facts. You can't say they lacked support in your opinion and then don't agree with that Detroit overall was a better team and should have won. But, they played good defensively cause they had character guys and I think they had more support than you thus they won and Detroit got some crucial injuries which wasn't helpful for them. Datsyuk played just 16 out of the games with a fractured foot and Lidstrom had his balls torn by a spear. That had very much to do with how it went, when you got a top 3 all time d-man out and arguable the best player in the league at the time both out/injured.

Though they should have won it anyway.

It's not facts, it's excuses.

Here are some facts, a fully healthy Datsyuk was at one goal and 9 points in 13 games before getting injured. They were fine without him contributing much offensively and they put him with Zetterberg when he returned for Game 5 of the SCF so it's not like he was going to go against Malkin. He also didn't go against Malkin in the 2008 SCF.

Lidstrom was more healthy than Gonchar.

Crosby missed most of Game 7 and the Wings still lost.

 

[daver]

I mean… You said it yourself Crosby 2008=McDavid 2024. If Crosby played worse in 2009 than the previous season, then McDavid probably reaches the finals, and
Might win it if Malkin’s performance stays status quo.

I like what McDavid did last playoffs, especially against Dallas in the WCF when he put up elite numbers without Draisaitl on his line at ES or on the PP. I thought that was his best series of his playoff career despite his PPG of 1.66 being 3rd best of his 2024 playoffs and T6 (out of 9) since 2022.

Crosby through 3 rounds in 2009 was better than both McDavid in 2024 through three rounds and his 2022 performance.

Yes, Crosby in the 2008 SCF = McDavid's 2024 SCF.

My main point was the placing of McDavid alongside Mario and Wayne based solely on his PPG when his numbers need context on an indivual basis and also on an era basis where scoring is up compared to other eras.

 

[daver]

Crosby had good two-way play in 2016, but with a minus in the playoffs,

McDavid was a minus 1 last game at 5 on 5 before the Oil pulled their goalie.

 

[daver]

The Pens, unlike the Oilers could actually score without Crosby/Malkin on the ice, which is why McDavid and Draisaitl play together often, they are chasing the game.

And the Oilers, unlike the Pens, could actually place some decent talent on their line/lines, talent that could put the puck in the net and not just leach points off of Crosby/Malkin like they did in 2009.

 

[SirKillalot]

It's not facts, it's excuses.

No its fact.
Fact is, Lidstrom and Datsyuk got injured. That is a fact. One with a ruptured ball sack, the other with a broken foot.

Fact is they returned but not close to 100%.
Fact is the team should have won anyway without them given they were up 3-1.
Fact is they lost.
Fact is the Penguins teams had character guys and depth for the playoffs who played well defensively for bigger parts of the playoffs which is also why they won in the end. Maybe they had some luck too, but any team that wins also have some luck.

 

[SirKillalot]

Crosby through 3 rounds in 2009 was better than both McDavid in 2024 through three rounds and his 2022 performance.

No he was not.
McDavid had 31 points before the SCF even started in 2024 and a +7 (and 42 points and a +12 after the finals were finished) and 33 points in 2022 and a +15.

Crosby had 31 points total and a +9 after SCF was finished in 2009.

 

[daver]

No its fact.
Fact is, Lidstrom and Datsyuk got injured. That is a fact. One with a ruptured ball sack, the other with a broken foot.

Fact is they returned but not close to 100%.
Fact is the team should have won anyway without them given they were up 3-1.
Fact is they lost.
Fact is the Penguins teams had character guys and depth for the playoffs who played well defensively for bigger parts of the playoffs which is also why they won in the end. Maybe they had some luck too, but any team that wins also have some luck.

You may want to get your facts straight. They were up 2-0 but the Pens were clearly holding their own through the first two games unlike the year before.

The only fact here is that we have no idea how the series plays out if everyone is at 100%. We do know that Datsyuk was underperforming when he was healthy.