Is McDavid a poor captain?

[crowfish]

I don't know if he is a good or bad captain. All the evidence suggests that he is a good captain, based on the reverence with which his teammates speak about him.

One thing I know is that winning the Cup is not proof of good or bad leadership. You could have the 2 best leaders in the NHL play against each other in the finals, and one of them would be guaranteed to lose. The only thing winning the Cup tells you is who the best team was. How much of that team's success is owed to leadership or just the fact that they were the best team cannot be measured.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

When Sid retires, McChoker better not be gifted the “C” for Team Canada

Overrated anti-clutch loser.

When Crosby won his first cup he had 3 points and was a -3 in the finals.

Sure sounds like he was super clutch.

 

[Aashir]

When Crosby won his first cup he had 3 points and was a -3 in the finals.

Sure sounds like he was super clutch.

I feel people are able to glance over Sid's finals performances because he wins. Had Mcdavid won and had 0 in games 6 and 7 and finished with 7 in 7 the same would've been said even though the point of mcdavid not being great in the finals still holds

crosby's finals stats are not anything special:
25GP 5G 15A 20P 1GWG +/- +4

I also think that the pens goaltending has really helped the penguins win games when they neded it, giving an average of:
.923 on 37 shots/game in 2008
.913 on 27.8 shots/game in 2009
.920 on 23 shots/game in 2016
.931 on 28.8 shots /game in 2017

compare that to Mcdavids:
13GP 4G 14A 18P 0GWG +/- -2

with this goaltending:
.909 on 25 shots/game in 2024
.866 on 31 shots/game in 2025

now imagine if Mcdavid had murray or fleury level goaltending that could've stolen games over the course of the past 2 finals games.

 

[biturbo19]

He's very talented at producing points by skating real fast, but nothing about him comes across as a true leader of men. He's pouty and regularly comes across as completely self-absorbed. I mean...not every good player is actually cut out to be a Captain. Drasaitl should probably actually wear the C.

 

[Sol]

weird cause Draisaitl outscored McDavid this year...just like 2019-20

phantom points?

Legit means nothing. Everyone knows that McDavid is the one who feeds Draisaitl points

 

[Hippasus]

Legit means nothing. Everyone knows that McDavid is the one who feeds Draisaitl points

When they're together on the ice they work as a tandem, that's their spiel, but each can produce at an elite level individually as well.

 

[tfwnogf]

Dragging that team to the finals 2 years in a row is crazy. I don't think Crosby could get out of round 2 with Skinner/Pickard duo. Through sheer determination to win McDavid carried like no other has carried. He might have Draisaitl, but Crosby had Malkin (36 point Malkin in 09) and Kessel going demonmode, Gretz had a hall of fame cast, Lemieux the same thing. McDavid and Drai had shaky goaltending, Darnell Nurse, and a slew of injured players each year, including themselves. I just don't see how anyone can think he's a terrible leader. A terrible leader would not have made it out of round 1 after LA went up 2-0. Wouldn't have come back strong against Vegas after that 0.4 seconds remaining goal, or rebounding to own Dallas after an embarrassing blowout in game 1. McDavid will win his cup, just like Ovechkin did when he silenced the doubters. Of course, the doubters will just change their argument to lol1cup to Crosgod's 3, so they shouldn't be taken seriously to begin with.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Problem is you're comparing McDavid to one of the most complete centere of all time (Crosby), one of the best two way centers of all time (Yzerman), quite possible the toughest player of alltime (Howe), and the GOAT (Gretzky).

All those guys can do what McDavid does (put up points), but they also offer other things. McDavid is quite frankly... 1 dimensional, and he doesn't have any intangibles. Hes more Marcel Dionne than those guys.

Marcel Dionne went from 100pt RS guy to a 75pt guy in the playoffs. McDavid goes from a 125pt RS guy to a 128pt guy in the playoffs. He also was so good last year he won a Smythe in a losing effort. McDavid and Dionne are not the same.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Phenomenal hockey player

Absolutely zero leadership skills or intangibles. The anti Jonathan Toews.

Can please cite all the examples of his “poor leadership”

Specifically, what insights do you have for goes on in the dressing room?

 

[nbwingsfan]

Problem is you're comparing McDavid to one of the most complete centere of all time (Crosby), one of the best two way centers of all time (Yzerman), quite possible the toughest player of alltime (Howe), and the GOAT (Gretzky).

All those guys can do what McDavid does (put up points), but they also offer other things. McDavid is quite frankly... 1 dimensional, and he doesn't have any intangibles. Hes more Marcel Dionne than those guys.

1. Outside of Gretzky, none of those guys put up points like him

2. The Wings win, likely by a larger margin, in 1997,98,02 with the 1989 version of Yzerman, who was the complete opposite of a two way player

3. Crosby is not one of the most complete players of all time

4. McDavid has scored at a 130+ or pace his last 4 playoff appearances combined. Dionne played at a 70pt pace. Something you can’t seem to grasp

 

[nbwingsfan]

In 20 years no one is going to care who his goalie was, or about his point totals if he keeps coming up short.

People are going to remember him getting beat in back to back finals, him being a -5 at even strength in 2025 SCF, and as a captain who came up short. The criticism is justified at this point.

Nobody with even a shred of hockey knowledge is going to look back at McDavid’s body of work and bring up +/- in a single series

 

[Rebels57]

I'm somewhere in the middle on his leadership.

 

[Russian_fanatic]

1. Outside of Gretzky, none of those guys put up points like him

2. The Wings win, likely by a larger margin, in 1997,98,02 with the 1989 version of Yzerman, who was the complete opposite of a two way player

3. Crosby is not one of the most complete players of all time

4. McDavid has scored at a 130+ or pace his last 4 playoff appearances combined. Dionne played at a 70pt pace. Something you can’t seem to grasp

1. McDavid fans: Points, points, points, points

2. Coulda, woulda, shoulda. Did Yzerman win in 1989?

3. Most definetly he is. His 3 Stanley Cups prove it.

4. McDavid fans: Points, points, points, point

Reply back when you're done living in fantasy land. There's more to hockey than raw point totals.

 

[nbwingsfan]

1. McDavid fans: Points, points, points, points

2. Coulda, woulda, shoulda. Did Yzerman win in 1989?

3. Most definetly he is. His 3 Stanley Cups prove it.

4. McDavid fans: Points, points, points, point

Reply back when you're done living in fantasy land. There's more to hockey than raw point totals.

Hey man, why didn’t Crosby win in 2008, 2010-2015, 2018- today?

 

[Russian_fanatic]

Nobody with even a shred of hockey knowledge is going to look back at McDavid’s body of work and bring up +/- in a single series

I just did?????

 

[nbwingsfan]

I just did?????

With a shred of hockey knowledge being the key sentence there big guy.

 

[Russian_fanatic]

Hey man, why didn’t Crosby win in 2008, 2010-2015, 2018- today?

Nobody wins every year, dont be silly.

Now without putting down his teammates, why hasn't McDavid EVER won (let alone 3)?

 

[Russian_fanatic]

With a shred of hockey knowledge being the key sentence there big guy.

Whoops, I should have brought up point totals =(

 

[nbwingsfan]

Nobody wins every year, dont be silly.

Now without putting down his teammates, why hasn't McDavid EVER won (let alone 3)?

That’s not an answer. Why couldn’t he get it done? What’s the reasoning?

 

[Ice9]

Not in the room so who knows. Great players can be poor leaders outside of a good work ethic. Some guys just don’t know what to say and when to say but they’re incredible talents. No shame in it. Happens in coaching, business etc and so on…

 

[Russian_fanatic]

That’s not an answer. Why couldn’t he get it done? What’s the reasoning?

Nobody wins every year silly.

Now without putting down his teammates why hasn't McDavid EVER won (let alone 3)?

 

[Panthaz89]

1. McDavid fans: Points, points, points, points

2. Coulda, woulda, shoulda. Did Yzerman win in 1989?

3. Most definetly he is. His 3 Stanley Cups prove it.

4. McDavid fans: Points, points, points, point

Reply back when you're done living in fantasy land. There's more to hockey than raw point totals.

Pat Maroon definitely a more complete player than Crosby. points don't matter.

 

[Russian_fanatic]

Pat Maroon definitely a more complete player than Crosby. points don't matter.

Someone who gets it

 

[Albatros]

Marcel Dionne went from 100pt RS guy to a 75pt guy in the playoffs.

Dionne also played for a Kings team that had no business in the playoffs, yet had tough series against heavily favored Boston teams as well as eliminated Gretzky and the Oilers in '82. Dionne had 23 points in those 18 games. Count in less successful attempts against the Islander and Oiler dynasties and it's still 29 points in 25 games with LA against the heaviest favourites.

Most of his playoff games he was older than McDavid is now. Would have been ppg if not for his final campaign in New York age 35.

 

[BruinsFan37]

What little I've seen of his locker room "speeches" and more importantly the other players reactions to them would lead me to say no. They seem to tune him out a lot.

Phenomenally talented player, who seems to at times have issues communicating/relating to lesser (but still highly skilled) players.

Kind of like when Gretzky was coaching the Yotes, but as a captain.