Is Matthews the worst playoff performer ever?

[CokenoPepsi]

He’s far better, Thornton was never a point per game in any playoff run in his life and Matthews is undeniably better defensively. I’ve also watched a ton of each in the playoffs, it’s Mathew’s and it’s not even close.

Watch each series he faced Tampa, or even the Boston one. Don’t think Thornton ever approached that level of play in the playoffs in his life.

Matthews has been... What twice? And those were in the first round, not much of a "run".

Matthews has one career second round goal in his career while being hyped as someone who could break Ovechkin's record....all while playing in a higher scoring era

 

[FissionFire]

If the question is literal, I'm sure many players have been worse. There's no way he's been worse than Calle Jankrok (who has five playoff goals in his career in 105 games), for example.

If the question is whether he's the worst playoff performer relative to his talent level/expectations/salary, then he's in the conversation.


Tyler Seguin has averaged 16 goals and 43 points per 82 games in the playoffs. That's pretty terrible for a guy with his talent and size.

Alexei Yashin had 11 goals and 27 points in 48 playoff games (and numerous playoffs with zero points or one point). Just atrocious.

Then you have Rick Nash and guys like Stamkos and Thornton. I made a poll comparing his playoff play to that of the latter two.

Marcel Dionne had a per82 playoff average of 75 points when his regular season was 108 points. He was the original playoff disappointment superstar.

 

[Hockey2Hockey]

The Leafs once had Thornton, Tavares, Marner and Matthews during a playoff run. Hopefully they had enough paramedics available with the amount of choking going on.

 

[Hockey2Hockey]

I think people are confusing disappointing for worst here, Matthews has very obviously been a huge disappointment, especially when a playoff series is on the line.

Even if you’re thinking worst among star players, well no that goes to Thornton easily.

People are also mentioning third and fourth line plugs as being the "worst". Matthews being a better postseason player than Rinaldo or Brookbank doesn't help his reputation.

Relative to talent/expectations/salary/, he is the second worst in my lifetime. I am 30. Number one is Thornton. In ten years, I'm sure Matthews will have "passed" him.

 

[MoneyManny]

People are also mentioning third and fourth line plugs as being the "worst". Matthews being a better postseason player than Rinaldo or Brookbank doesn't help his reputation.

Relative to talent/expectations/salary/, he is the second worst in my lifetime. I am 30. Number one is Thornton. In ten years, I'm sure Matthews will have "passed" him.

For a 3 times Richard trophy winner not to be able to buy a damn goal in the playoffs, Thronton has nothing on Matthews as far as playoff choking goes lol.

 

[Plural]

Relative to his stature, he's one of the biggest busts so far. However, he still has time to change the narrative.

 

[authentic]

People are also mentioning third and fourth line plugs as being the "worst". Matthews being a better postseason player than Rinaldo or Brookbank doesn't help his reputation.

Relative to talent/expectations/salary/, he is the second worst in my lifetime. I am 30. Number one is Thornton. In ten years, I'm sure Matthews will have "passed" him.

You’re talking about expectations, reputations and narratives. He’s been far from one of the worst players in the playoffs based on his actual play. He outscores the other team when he’s on the ice every year, playing Stanley Cup champions and Vezina winning goaltenders all the time, his teams lack of success and his lack of scoring in elimination games makes it seem a whole lot worse than it is for him individually. His stats in elimination games aren’t even any worse than Kucherov’s for example, and he plays on a team where no one besides himself on his line can score a goal, (until Knies this season), and actually makes an impact defensively. Also considering his health he’s nowhere close to being as bad as people say, still outscores Barkov’s line with a wonky back and/or wrist and the other team intentionally injuring our starting goalie.

 

[Hockey2Hockey]

You’re talking about expectations, reputations and narratives. He’s been far from one of the worst players in the playoffs based on his actual play. He outscores the other team when he’s on the ice every year, playing Stanley Cup champions and Vezina winning goaltenders all the time, his teams lack of success and his lack of scoring in elimination games makes it seem a whole lot worse than it is for him individually. His stats in elimination games aren’t even any worse than Kucherov’s for example, and he plays on a team where no one besides himself on his line can score a goal, (until Knies this season), and actually makes an impact defensively. Also considering his health he’s nowhere close to being as bad as people say, still outscores Barkov’s line with a wonky back and/or wrist and the other team intentionally injuring our starting goalie.

Going to agree to disagree here

 

[authentic]

Going to agree to disagree here

I mean the facts are facts, if you’re not getting outscored every season playing those quality of teams and the circumstances he’s dealt with you must be doing something right.

 

[Son of Nogatco]

I mean the facts are facts, if you’re not getting outscored every season playing those quality of teams and the circumstances he’s dealt with you must be doing something right.

Can you address this post:

Can someone repost this because this poster either has me on ignore is just outright ignores EVERY TIME I CORRECT THESE MADE UP LIES?

Re: Tampa part of bolded
At no point did Matthews "hold them to zero shots on goal" during any game in either series. According to Naturalstattricks' game log for Matthews, this was his shots against log for both 2022 and 2023 versus Tampa:
(2022 series)
TB at TOR - 4 SA
TB at TOR - 5 SA
TOR at TB - 10 SA
TOR at TB - 3 SA
TB at TOR - 6 SA
TOR at TB - 11 SA
TB at TOR - 3 SA

(2023 series)
TB at TOR - 5 SA
TB at TOR - 6 SA
TOR at TB - 6 SA
TOR at TB - 8 SA
TB at TOR - 9 SA
TOR at TB - 10 SA

Where is this "held them to zero shots against"?

Re: Boston and Bergeron part of the bolded
At even strength the year Matthews scored 5 goals versus the Bruins, Bergeron was on the ice for ONE GOAL MATTHEWS SCORED. ONE. They weren't even really "matched up". Bergeron played a total of 24:28 versus Matthews that series. Krejci is the one who was "matched up" against Matthews more that year, playing 59:07 versus Matthews.

I guess this is one of those "keep saying these things and hopefully people won't check to see if it's true" things. Because I've literally corrected the poster multiple times on these "stats" they use to boost Matthews.

 

[authentic]

Can you address this post:

What’s the confusion here?

 

[Son of Nogatco]

What’s the confusion here?

I’m confused that you’re still posting stuff like “facts are facts” when you’ve been called out ITT for making up “facts” that are demonstrably false, with no rebuttal

 

[authentic]

I’m confused that you’re still posting stuff like “facts are facts” when you’ve been called out ITT for making up “facts” that are demonstrably false, with no rebuttal

lol what?

“Can you address this post:”

That’s what you’ve brought to the table so far. What is it I said that’s demonstrably false exactly?

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Makes my top 10

 

[Son of Nogatco]

lol what?

“Can you address this post:”

That’s what you’ve brought to the table so far. What is it I said that’s demonstrably false exactly?

Click “show ignored”

 

[Fatass]

Considering his regular season success and media hype, he’s the worst.

 

[authentic]

Click “show ignored”

 

[Son of Nogatco]

Seems like you’re having a hard time using the site, let me help you out:

 

[cowboy82nd]

Joe Thornton was quite a bit worse, as were other players. Matt Duchene is a current example that has a much larger drop off compared to regular season. John Tavares also.

At least Matthews has had 2 playoff seasons where he produced reasonably well. His last 2 seasons were awful, but he could improve going forward. I don't expect him to ever go crazy in production like McDavid, Draisaitl, or MacKinnon, but at least he is capable of being decent. I bet if he was in a low-pressure American market with other clutch players on the team, he'd get 1-1.2 points per game in the playoffs. Other players have been bad in the playoffs and turned it around later in their careers. For a goalie example, look at Bobrovsky. It doesn't help Matthews that he plays with Tavares who has had awful career playoff production. And Marner who is good early in series and disappears after game 4. And having no true puck-moving offensive defenseman hurts all the Leaf forwards.

I bet if he was in a low-pressure American market with other clutch players on the team, he'd get 1-1.2 points per game in the playoffs

That’s pure speculation. Stick to the facts. For how much he’s being paid and the leadership he’s supposed to bring, yes, he fails in the playoffs. Is he the worst, that’s the question. I would put he up there with Thornton.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Seems like you’re having a hard time using the site, let me help you out:

View attachment 1045403

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There's about as much of a chance of him addressing the post as there is of the Leafs winning the Cup.

 

[Stephen]

I think Matthews playoff defensive game hype misses the point. Which is he and his buddy Marner are usually the better offensive players on the ice and when he’s mutually neutralizing the opposition, he’s the one getting neutralized.

The way this is supposed to work is he gets quick stops and rams the offensive game down the opposition’s throat. His defensive work should be a Linear A to B line of generating high volume offense, not a trade off of offense for a low event nothing shift.

To use an old Leafs analogy, Shayne Corson was happy to shut down Alexei Yashin. Alexei Yashin shouldn’t be celebrating the fact that he was shutting down Shayne Corson.

The other thing is Matthews defensive game isn’t all that air tight.

 

[GlitchMarner]

I think Matthews playoff defensive game hype misses the point. Which is he and his buddy Marner are usually the better offensive players on the ice and when he’s mutually neutralizing the opposition, he’s the one getting neutralized.

The way this is supposed to work is he gets quick stops and rams the offensive game down the opposition’s throat. His defensive work should be a Linear A to B line of generating high volume offense, not a trade off of offense for a low event nothing shift.

To use an old Leafs analogy, Shayne Corson was happy to shut down Alexei Yashin. Alexei Yashin shouldn’t be celebrating the fact that he was shutting down Shayne Corson.

The other thing is Matthews defensive game isn’t all that air tight.

In the OTT series this year, Matthews and Marner went up against the Pinto line quite often.

They held that line in check defensively, but is "shutting down" a line of ~20 goal scorers a big accomplishment?

 

[Son of Nogatco]

There's about as much of a chance of him addressing the post as there is of the Leafs winning the Cup.

Sad!

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Sad!

Heck, I was so focused on the first two items that I didn't even notice the third faulty statement in that one post, about Matthews getting the best of Barkov in their most recent series.

For the record, Matthews was on the ice for 3 goals for, 3 goals against versus the Barkov line. So he "played him to a draw", at most, not got the best of him. And further, if you look at the various analytics (shots for, chances for, Corsi/Fenwick for, expected goals for, etc.) Barkov's line dominated his in terms of possession and chances. Matthews just got more puck luck (or better goaltending) to keep the actual goals for tied.

 

[Hockey2Hockey]

I think Matthews playoff defensive game hype misses the point. Which is he and his buddy Marner are usually the better offensive players on the ice and when he’s mutually neutralizing the opposition, he’s the one getting neutralized.

The way this is supposed to work is he gets quick stops and rams the offensive game down the opposition’s throat. His defensive work should be a Linear A to B line of generating high volume offense, not a trade off of offense for a low event nothing shift.

To use an old Leafs analogy, Shayne Corson was happy to shut down Alexei Yashin. Alexei Yashin shouldn’t be celebrating the fact that he was shutting down Shayne Corson.

The other thing is Matthews defensive game isn’t all that air tight.

This is an excellent point.