Is Matthews the worst playoff performer ever?

[GlitchMarner]

lot more difficult to get to the inside in the playoffs. i haven't studied all his playoff work but i sat lower bowl in TD Garden for g2 last year on the side TOR shot twice and tried to keep an eye on him. i thought he was weak. mostly perimeter/floating and rarely engaging in the board work that's necessary to win PO series. got a ton of credit for that easy GWG but his overall game was not impressive at all.



i'm not sure he can recover from that comment (in the room at least). leaders do not blame others.

I'm not sure what he meant exactly, but I think he may have been saying that too many players on the team were passive/tentative and failed to step up and make a positive contribution (which is what happened) as opposed to trying to deflect criticism or insinuating that he played well and others on the team didn't.

Regardless, he doesn't seem like a great leader. He should know how a statement like that might come off and that it's the type of thing the Toronto media might have a field day with.

 

[Fatass]

I'm not sure what he meant exactly, but I think he may have been saying that too many players on the team were passive/tentative and failed to step up and make a positive contribution (which is what happened) as opposed to trying to deflect criticism or insinuating that he played well and others on the team didn't.

Regardless, he doesn't seem like a great leader. He should know how a statement like that might come off and that it's the type of thing the Toronto media might have a field day with.

Matthews was one of those who were soft and on the perimeter. His comments about too many passengers should have been about himself. He’s like a leader would have been in the Napoleonic wars. You guys need to sacrifice, while I stay safe on my horse up on this hill.
Imo, Matthews views himself as better than his teammates. His actions and comments support this view.
He’s 230 pounds! He’s very athletic. He should be leading the charge.
He needs to get off his “high horse”.

 

[GlitchMarner]

Matthews was one of those who were soft and on the perimeter. His comments about too many passengers should have been about himself. He’s like a leader would have been in the Napoleonic wars. You guys need to sacrifice, while I stay safe on my horse up on this hill.
Imo, Matthews views himself as better than his teammates. His actions and comments support this view.
He’s 230 pounds! He’s very athletic. He should be leading the charge.
He needs to get off his “high horse”.

He seems like a guy who can't really rally the troops and lead the charge. He also admitted that Leafs players weren't "on the same page" for Game Seven.

He seems to know what the issues are but to be unable to do anything to correct them. As the Captain of the team, if you can't get other players united, at least step up and try to lead by example.

It seemed too many on the team were waiting for someone else to take charge in that last game. I think he was referencing that. But he should have been aware of how tone-deaf his comments sounded considering he didn't play particularly well or hard himself and he's an important part of the leadership group.

 

[zeroG]

I'm not sure what he meant exactly, but I think he may have been saying that too many players on the team were passive/tentative and failed to step up and make a positive contribution (which is what happened) as opposed to trying to deflect criticism or insinuating that he played well and others on the team didn't.

Regardless, he doesn't seem like a great leader. He should know how a statement like that might come off and that it's the type of thing the Toronto media might have a field day with.

oh, yeah - i agree. and i do think there were def too many passengers.

i'm not even saying he played poorly or his play was a root cause. i think his leadership probably was, though. it's not so much how that statement plays in the media, it's how it plays in the room. leaders have to be selfless unless we're talking dictators who rule by fear and control. why would anybody (why would you or i?) follow a selfish leader who's looking after his own interests? one who will throw you under the bus to protect themselves in a crisis? that's how that comment feels to me and you can't undo that. you also can't trade the rest of the team, nor should you if you agree his comment betrayed poor leadership.

i think matthews is an elite scorer and, like marner, might end up one day being a very good player on a championship team with real leadership but, imo, he's miscast as a leader and, as they say, the fish rots from the head.

let's just imagine for a moment what sasha barkov would say if he were in matthews' shoes - "i'm the captain and this falls on me. i need to be better, i need to train harder and be better prepared to make the difference in a game like this.". how does that play to your teammates?

 

[Hockey2Hockey]

Would you rather prime Justin Williams or Matthews on your team in the postseason?

I'll take Williams.

Matthews is only less worse than Thornton right now because we have a full career of Joe choking. His career is done. More is to come for Matthews.

Also, good job making him captain. At his best, he never gave leadership vibes.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

He seems like a guy who can't really rally the troops and lead the charge. He also admitted that Leafs players weren't "on the same page" for Game Seven.

He seems to know what the issues are but to be unable to do anything to correct them. As the Captain of the team, if you can't get other players united, at least step up and try to lead by example.

It seemed too many on the team were waiting for someone else to take charge in that last game. I think he was referencing that. But he should have been aware of how tone-deaf his comments sounded considering he didn't play particularly well or hard himself and he's an important part of the leadership group.

You don't have to be the rah-rah type vocal leader to be an effective captain. The quiet, lead-by-example types can also be good leaders even if they don't stand up in the dressing room and rip into the team.

Crosby's not much of a vocal leader. He wasn't really the type to lay into the team in the dressing room if they were playing flat. He just went out there and lead by example so that when a grunt 4th liner sees their star busting his ass, he'd follow suit.

Matthews just comes across as someone who doesn't have that "heart" that you see from the other elite guys. He's just a naturally gifted guy who happened to realize that playing hockey could make him super rich and super famous, so he stuck with it. But he doesn't seem like someone who'd dig extra deep like it takes in the playoffs.

 

[Fatass]

You don't have to be the rah-rah type vocal leader to be an effective captain. The quiet, lead-by-example types can also be good leaders even if they don't stand up in the dressing room and rip into the team.

Crosby's not much of a vocal leader. He wasn't really the type to lay into the team in the dressing room if they were playing flat. He just went out there and lead by example so that when a grunt 4th liner sees their star busting his ass, he'd follow suit.

Matthews just comes across as someone who doesn't have that "heart" that you see from the other elite guys. He's just a naturally gifted guy who happened to realize that playing hockey could make him super rich and super famous, so he stuck with it. But he doesn't seem like someone who'd dig extra deep like it takes in the playoffs.

Exactly right (imo) about Matthews. With his size, 230, and elite skills, and hockey smarts, if he was wired with the fight dna he’d be a great leader and almost certain Cup winner. Sadly, his dna isn’t what winners are made of.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

You don't have to be the rah-rah type vocal leader to be an effective captain. The quiet, lead-by-example types can also be good leaders even if they don't stand up in the dressing room and rip into the team.

Crosby's not much of a vocal leader. He wasn't really the type to lay into the team in the dressing room if they were playing flat. He just went out there and lead by example so that when a grunt 4th liner sees their star busting his ass, he'd follow suit.

Matthews just comes across as someone who doesn't have that "heart" that you see from the other elite guys. He's just a naturally gifted guy who happened to realize that playing hockey could make him super rich and super famous, so he stuck with it. But he doesn't seem like someone who'd dig extra deep like it takes in the playoffs.

 

[Team_Spirit]

Nah that's Papa Ketchup

PFs are supposed to shine in the playoffs.

Keith Tkachuk Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Statistics of Keith Tkachuk, a hockey player from Melrose, MA born Mar 28 1972 who was active from 1990 to 2010.

www.hockeydb.com

 

[The Panther]

Holy hannah, I hadn't seen the game 7 "passengers" comment until now. Whether or not he meant to include himself among the "passengers", that is a really damning quotation on a few levels.

As team captain, Matthews is actually supposed to be able to do something about those passengers. He could help inspire them, motivate them, etc. That's kind of what a captain needs to do.

Man, between that comment and Marner's cringe "we're like Gods" (or whatever it was) line last year, I wonder if the Maple Leafs need an overhaul in how they prep young players to deal with the media.

 

[Stephen]

Holy hannah, I hadn't seen the game 7 "passengers" comment until now. Whether or not he meant to include himself among the "passengers", that is a really damning quotation on a few levels.

As team captain, Matthews is actually supposed to be able to do something about those passengers. He could help inspire them, motivate them, etc. That's kind of what a captain needs to do.

Man, between that comment and Marner's cringe "we're like Gods" (or whatever it was) line last year, I wonder if the Maple Leafs need an overhaul in how they prep young players to deal with the media.

I think what ends up happening is we gradually flush this era and build a more down to business, spartan organization top to bottom.

 

[LiseL]

All 8? Come on dude. You and I both know his play falls off a cliff in the playoffs.

Especially in elimination games. Other posters were bringing up Nash as being worse, but was Nash ever the highest paid player in the league?

 

[Fatass]

Can we make this thread a “yes” or “no” poll?

 

[Johnny Concussion]

Can we make this thread a “yes” or “no” poll?

Yes.

 

[Fatass]

Especially in elimination games. Other posters were bringing up Nash as being worse, but was Nash ever the highest paid player in the league?

Holy. Rick Bash was a great player on team Canada. The guy played a bottom six banger role. And was great at it. He had the right dna. Matthews has the wrong dna. Unless, of course, it’s dna for fashion. He’s really into that fashion stuff. Why is the world does he spend so much energy on how he looks?

 

[Fatass]

Yes.

Thanks! Get ‘er done please.

 

[LiseL]

Among star players he has to be up near the top of the list for worst playoff performers.

The difference between his potential and what you get is a Joe Thornton sized gap and then some.

He has zero elevation to his game and is actually just way worse in the playoffs.

It’s really something I’ve never seen before.

Take away his time/space, his production disappears. He's never figured out how to perform with this style of hockey.

 

[DuncanMacpherson]

He's apparently been injured every season except for when he scored 60 goals.

It's old.

Which of his 60 goal seasons are you referring to?

 

[Emerald Duck]

Some fans have suggested that Matthews was playing hurt in the playoffs (back, wrist, ?)

Has there been any reports that he needs offseason surgery or treatment, or were the suggestions that he was playing injured just an excuse to rationalize his lack of production ?

 

[Johnny Concussion]

Thanks! Get ‘er done please.

Thread 'Is Matthews the worst playoff performer ever?'

Sunday at 10:52 PM

The discussion in the playoffs forum is asking this question and we are debating it fiercely. Someone suggested a poll so why not have a poll?

Is Matthews the worst playoff performer ever?​

Personally my vote is yes. I don't think he has the heart for the game and gives up when it gets tough.

• Johnny Concussion
• Replies: 34
• Forum: Polls - (hockey-related only)

• 

Done bawse.

 

[connellc]

Love hfboards, because of the hyperbole. You have to look at the older players/retired ones to make such judgment calls. For example, look at Keith Primeau. His last playoff run saved him from being a complete playoff bust.

But I discussed this in the history forum in terms of playoff numbers compared to regular season performance it's

Brian Savage
Gus Nyquist
Thomas Tatar
Toni Tanti
Dan Cloutier

Superstars who made big money?

Yashin
Bertuzzi
Nash

Those 3 never won cups or ever stepped up in the playoffs. Some even hurt (Bertuzzi) with by taking dumb penalties or flat out not trying (Yashin). At least Nash did perform well internationally for Canada, so I'll give him a pass never rising up for anything.

All much worse than Matthews and his book hasn't been written yet. I remember when Datsyuk started the playoffs his first 40 games were dreadful, but he bounced back.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Love hfboards, because of the hyperbole. You have to look at the older players/retired ones to make such judgment calls. For example, look at Keith Primeau. His last playoff run saved him from being a complete playoff bust.

But I discussed this in the history forum in terms of playoff numbers compared to regular season performance it's

Brian Savage
Gus Nyquist
Thomas Tatar
Toni Tanti
Dan Cloutier

Superstars who made big money?

Yashin
Bertuzzi
Nash

Those 3 never won cups or ever stepped up in the playoffs. Some even hurt (Bertuzzi) with by taking dumb penalties or flat out not trying (Yashin). At least Nash did perform well internationally for Canada, so I'll give him a pass never rising up for anything.

All much worse than Matthews and his book hasn't been written yet. I remember when Datsyuk started the playoffs his first 40 games were dreadful, but he bounced back.

This kind of misses the point of the criticism of Matthews. It's been stated multiple times that of course there are "worse" playoff performers, if you look at every single player who even played a playoff game.

But the expectations are different for a player like Matthews than your average player. No one was arguing that Nash or Yashin was the "best player in the league" or on par with the top players in the game. So them being underwhelming in the playoffs, while bad, isn't the same as a guy like Matthews being a playoff disappointment is.

The fact you have to find the absolute worst playoff performers of all time to defend Matthews' performance kind of speaks volumes about how poor it's been. "Well at least he's not Yashin or Tomas Tatar" isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of his performance.

 

[connellc]

This kind of misses the point of the criticism of Matthews. It's been stated multiple times that of course there are "worse" playoff performers, if you look at every single player who even played a playoff game.

But the expectations are different for a player like Matthews than your average player. No one was arguing that Nash or Yashin was the "best player in the league" or on par with the top players in the game. So them being underwhelming in the playoffs, while bad, isn't the same as a guy like Matthews being a playoff disappointment is.

The fact you have to find the absolute worst playoff performers of all time to defend Matthews' performance kind of speaks volumes about how poor it's been. "Well at least he's not Yashin or Tomas Tatar" isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of his performance.

Look at the thread...worst ever? He's not lighting the world on fire, but worst ever is a major stretch .How old is Marner? 28? He's probably got 10 years left in this league. There's a chance he may only be halfway done his playoff career. Yzerman, Ovechkin, Datsyuk all had the label of "the worst ever" and bounced back. As I mentioned, his story is yet to be written unlike all the players I mentioned at the top.

BTW, Yashin was also runner up for the Hart trophy, so yeah he was one of the top players in the game. Point being, it's way too early to tell that he's one of the worst.

 

[CashMash]

Worst EVER is a huge stretch.
Worst relative to his regular season game? Maybe...

 

[CashMash]

Look at the thread...worst ever? He's not lighting the world on fire, but worst ever is a major stretch .How old is Marner? 28? He's probably got 10 years left in this league. There's a chance he may only be halfway done his playoff career. Yzerman, Ovechkin, Datsyuk all had the label of "the worst ever" and bounced back. As I mentioned, his story is yet to be written unlike all the players I mentioned at the top.

BTW, Yashin was also runner up for the Hart trophy, so yeah he was one of the top players in the game. Point being, it's way too early to tell that he's one of the worst.

Can't speak as to Yzerman, but Ovechkin wasn't the worst ever, and Datsyuk didn't start out on the top line. Misleading to look at stats without context.