Is Martin enough to get this D to league average?

[Amazing Kreiderman]

You and @Machinehead said the same thing but they haven't always had great D with those 2. Am I wrong?

Their defense was never outstanding. Letang is overrated because he plays on a team that drives on possession. Can you name 3 defensemen on the Penguins the last 10 years who actually played good defense elsewhere?

Matt Murray won 2 Cups as a rookie and he is horrible. Pittsburgh didn't win because of their blueline, they won despite their blueline and goaltending.

 

[haveandare]

I'd expect the D to be a bit better - probably not night and day by any means. JM seems to be better than Ruff, and having the guys grow up a bit, get more used to each other and the league, etc will help. Ultimately to take it up a big step we'll need better d-men, there's no way around it.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Do you guys remember the garbage we had in 2017 AND AV's system. It was an underrated year by Hank but they somehow were decent enough to win a playoff round and almost win another.

 

[SA16]

Their defense was never outstanding. Letang is overrated because he plays on a team that drives on possession. Can you name 3 defensemen on the Penguins the last 10 years who actually played good defense elsewhere?

Matt Murray won 2 Cups as a rookie and he is horrible. Pittsburgh didn't win because of their blueline, they won despite their blueline and goaltending.

Matt Murray was great in 15-16 and 16-17. He was a major reason as to why they won. He's been much worse since then.

 

[Edge]

I don’t think Martin is going to be a savior. I think his legacy will be determined by his ability to get the house in better order. That will likely include getting buy-in from current players, and potential laying the groundwork for Miller, Robertson, Lundkvist, Schneider, etc. to step right into his system over the next several years.

I think Fox will do very well under Martin.

 

[egelband]

I think league average D with this offense we'll be a pretty damn good team. Wonder if you guys think he's enough to have us jump in that range.

Yeah. I think so. Not only the new coach, but also because of simply experience together as a group. I’m pretty confident in this group. Looking forward.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

On the D, from what I've heard Miller is gonna get every chance to take a roster spot this year, and Hajek too. My personal opinion is that we start with Smith Lindgren and Johnson and as games go by we will see more of Miller and Hajek. I think in a regular year where we had preseason games we'd likely see Miller or Hajek on opening day, im not so sure with a shortened season. This team will sit the d that are problems i have no doubt about that, they have no loyalties like they did with Staal, Smith a bit but they can sneak him up front if he isn't playing like he did to end the year.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

No shot. I think he can help shore some minor things up, particularly some things on the PK but they will not be an average defensive team.

Not only is the personnel on the blue line not adequate enough yet, don't forget about forwards' importance to team defense. Having Fil Chtyil and Brett Howden (in their current forms) play meaningful minutes at center doesn't help the team defense at all.

The Rangers are the youngest team in the league, a lot of the young guys are still learning the little things about defense and executing the system in the NHL.

Time will be required and most likely upgrades at various positions.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

This D needs more talent, speed, physicality ... everything!

I hope Martin, K'Andre in two years, Fox and Lundkvist will be enough.

 

[aufheben]

Personnel and coaching both matter.

The trick isn’t improving defense, it’s improving defense without sacrificing offense.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Personnel and coaching both matter.

The trick isn’t improving defense, it’s improving defense without sacrificing offense.

Didn't the Islanders improve their defense by sacrificing offense and it worked out for them?

 

[aufheben]

Didn't the Islanders improve their defense by sacrificing offense and it worked out for them?

Yes but our long-term goal isn’t to be the Islanders, it’s to be the Avs and Lightning.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Yes but our long-term goal isn’t to be the Islanders, it’s to be the Avs and Lightning.

Well long term we'll have better horses on defense.

 

[aufheben]

Well long term we'll have better horses on defense.

I think that goes back to Edge’s point about Martin being here to lay the foundation for future players.

I don’t expect this organization to fully commit to defense right now with the horses this team has up front.

We’ll probably be the 20-25th worst defensive team this year instead of the 25-31st worst defensive team, but the real payoff might be 2/3/4 years from now.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I think that goes back to Edge’s point about Martin being here to lay the foundation for future players.

I don’t expect this organization to fully commit to defense right now with the horses this team has up front.

Not sure if this is the thread for this but I wonder if there will be a couple of seasons where Mika/Bread aren't old yet, Laf and Kakko are mature, and D is mature.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Not sure if this is the thread for this but I wonder if there will be a couple of seasons where Mika/Bread aren't old yet, Laf and Kakko are mature, and D is mature.

I believe panarin will.... not sure how much time Zib has here, depending on health, length and term of contact he might be gone before then unfortunately unless his deal is fairly team friendly.

 

[NYR]

I understand we have to wait for prospects to develop but while asking the question about becoming average defensively..
Are we talking regular season or playoffs where they got bounced in a tournament they had no business playing in??
I'm surprised at the short term memory around here.
The big boys were no where to be found and the only player to show up was KK.
What differs this year..JM?
PK should be a little better..OK.
I won't get started on the elephant in the room.."DQ/System"
There's still a looong ways to go before this team becomes any where near "average" defensively and to touch on another post..if you're sacrificing offense for defense than you're doing something wrong..

 

[True Blue]

Trouba needs to live up to that contract. Then our defence will be league average. If he plays like he did last year, we are in big trouble.

He played largely the same exact way he did with the Jets. But in a much bigger role and with a much less of a supporting cast.

 

[True Blue]

If he didn't actively seek out Johnson, I'd be more encouraged.

It indicates to me that this is just another iteration of the "getting outshot is actually rad" ideology.

His view of Johnson has absolutely nothing to do with how Martin can bring a defensive structure and identity.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

His view of Johnson has absolutely nothing to do with how Martin can bring a defensive structure and identity.

I think the idea is that if he values certain things in Johnson that aren't good he might coach the other D to follow suit.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Didn't the Islanders improve their defense by sacrificing offense and it worked out for them?

Did it?

they had a cute run last year, but the way I see it it’s called them as a team that in a normal year, is capped as a 2nd round team.

 

[True Blue]

I think the idea is that if he values certain things in Johnson that aren't good he might coach the other D to follow suit.

That point of view can be said about any coach with any player. If Coach X has Y player, then he values things that aren't good. Again, liking Johnson has absolutely nothing to do with how Martin lays down a foundation and puts together a structure.

 

[NYR]

Did it?

they had a cute run last year, but the way I see it it’s called them as a team that in a normal year, is capped as a 2nd round team.

What the hell are you even talking about??
They over achieved in every possible way with mediocre players.
LL sets the example on how teams are built.
He instills leadership, brings in the right coach that has a structured system/program and works within a budget despite what he's been handed from the last regime and all within a calendar year.
You're outta ya mind..

 

[Machinehead]

His view of Johnson has absolutely nothing to do with how Martin can bring a defensive structure and identity.

I would argue certain players are bad to the point where they're antithetical to structure and identity.

 

[True Blue]

I would argue certain players are bad to the point where they're antithetical to structure and identity.

Anyone can argue anything. An opinion on a player had nothing to do with building a defensive system.