Is Leon Draisaitl on pace to be the best non-“big six” nation hockey player ever?

[Three On Zero]

I like to see what he cans do without McDavid.

Mario Lemieux made Kevin Stevens and Rich Tocchet 100+ point players

Can Leon be a 100+ Point player without McDavid??

I doubt it

This is always going to be the huge question around him, Malkin had to prove who he was without Crosby. Draisiatl needs to do the same without McDavid. He needs a decent sample size run at 1C without McDavid

 

[Coffey]

Brian Trottier then?

I'M NO DOUBLE DIPPER LIKE BRIAN

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

I wouldn’t and didn’t say he was the best player in the league, but he has been in that conversation more often than not in his career. He’s in that “Malkin” position where everyone realizes there’s a guy on his own team who will always be considered the better player over the long run, but there will also be stretches of time where he actually has the better performance (hence the Harts that Draisatl and Malkin have both won).

Just some snapshot examples: this thread from 2020 has Draisaitl as the third best player in the league, behind McDavid who was taken for granted and MacKinnon who was strongly favored when that poll was taken. This thread from 2021 again has him behind McDavid (taken for granted) and MacKinnon, this time somewhat closer. This thread from 2023 had him narrowly behind McDavid (again taken for granted) and Makar. In between the snapshots, there were times when Draisaitl surged into being the chic pick for the #2 spot.

I don’t think there was ever a time that Chara would have been seriously suggested as the 2nd or 3rd best player in the NHL, not even for the brief period when he was viewed as (arguably) the best defenseman going.

That’s fair, and that’s a shame. Players like Cale and Miro are among the most impactful in the world right now, but someone like MacKinnon will get all the credit.

 

[Skolman]

Yes?

Cups absolutely matter when we're comparing careers.

Also, just posting points doesn't encapsulate what Kopitar meant to those Kings teams.

Not to mention Kopitar's prime was in a significantly lower-scoring NHL. His 20 points to lead the tournament in 2012 would have ranked 10th in 2024.

Despite never winning the Conn Smythe, Kopitar led the playoffs in scoring en route to a Cup twice. That's only been done by 9 players.

I disagree.

Draisaitl has been the superior player in the playoffs.

Hockey is a team game though, FYI.

 

[Machinehead]

I disagree.

Draisaitl has been the superior player in the playoffs.

Hockey is a team game though, FYI.

Thank you for that information.

 

[psycat]

He is certainly in the discussion(and likely will be clear #1 answer after all is said and done). Does it matter much though? It's not like hockey is a particulary big sport outside of the "big 6" so not sure it's all that noteworthy other than as a novelty I suppose.

 

[Pass the Saitl Sauce]

How many players have career 500+ goals and 1500+ points? Because if he avoids injury I think those numbers are safe bets for his career (has a chance at those totals by the age of 35)

 

[I am not exposed]

Can't believe people are saying Hossa > Drai.

Laughable.

 

[Skolman]

Can't believe people are saying Hossa > Drai.

Laughable.

It's really not hard to believe... when you look at who's voted...

 

[Three On Zero]

Thank you for that information.

Kopitar will never be appreciated by stat watchers. Defensive ability gets really underrated

 

[Mobiandi]

Maybe, if you started watching hockey in 2021. Kopitar will not be passed anytime soon

 

[Three On Zero]

Maybe, if you started watching hockey in 2021. Kopitar will not be passed anytime soon

Recency bias is always strong here

 

[Jack Spider]

Olaf Kolzig in nhl 99. South African born goalie for Germany.

 

[Pablo El Perro]

Depends on where Makita is placed. But he'll probably pass that.

Olaf Kolzig in nhl 99. South African born goalie for Germany.

Danny Heatley, FN all-star

 

[Team_Spirit]

German Gretzky picks corner from the goal line what else do you need

 

[Machinehead]

Kopitar will never be appreciated by stat watchers. Defensive ability gets really underrated

And Kopitar's stats are fine. I really don't think people appreciate how much lower scoring the league was in his prime.

I am not saying he's as good as Draisaitl offensively, but they're respective gaps on offense and defense make them pretty close overall.

I can understand a case for Draisaitl, but Kopitar is absolutely in the conversation.

 

[Three On Zero]

And Kopitar's stats are fine. I really don't think people appreciate how much lower scoring the league was in his prime.

I am not saying he's as good as Draisaitl offensively, but they're respective gaps on offense and defense make them pretty close overall.

I can understand a case for Draisaitl, but Kopitar is absolutely in the conversation.

Draisaitl could very well end up better, but he’s still got awhile to go

 

[Machinehead]

Draisaitl could very well end up better, but he’s still got awhile to go

Yeah that's where I'm at. Kopitar is just more established right now and was a pillar on two Cups. I get that it's a team game but it's not like he was Kirk Maltby.

 

[Three On Zero]

Yeah that's where I'm at. Kopitar is just more established right now and was a pillar on two Cups. I get that it's a team game but it's not like he was Kirk Maltby.

I just want to see Draisiatl as more of a center piece player and less of a supporting player to McDavid. He has the skill but he needs to establish himself as a player away from him.

 

[wetcoast]

Does it feel like Drai to you was considered the best player in the league? It feels like there was 1 year where he was brought up with McDavid and Kucherov and then I haven’t really heard his name since.

Well that's a fair point but McDavid has been an all-time top tier #1 guy for a while and Draisaitl certainly has been in the conversation of top 3 over quite a long period of time as well.

Would be curious to get some insight from other posters. If Drai was considered the best player in the world in 2020, then can we say the same about 2016 Kane? 2011 Sedin? I’m curious what the consensus is on this, as to me those were always hot takes and it felt like the majority always placed McDavid as firmly the best.

No it's not really the same in part to what I posted above and also simply winning an Art Ross and/or a Hart doesn't fully equate with best player in the world.

Some other ‘hot take’ best players in the world:
Federov

Federov sure due to his 2 way game and offensive output and overall impact

Datsyuk

Same as above.

Toews

Not quite but just a step down from the first 2.

In other words on a scale of 1-100 these guys in their absolute best peak 2 or 3 years would rank like this versus each other.

Federov 100

Datysuk 96

Toews 89

Just a numerical expression of my feeling on this right now.

 

[wetcoast]

I like to see what he cans do without McDavid.

Mario Lemieux made Kevin Stevens and Rich Tocchet 100+ point players

Can Leon be a 100+ Point player without McDavid??

I doubt it

We have already seen stretches where Leon still excelled with McDavid out of the lineup but then the goalposts will get moved and critics will say sample size ect... usual BS and then when Leon is like 35 and on another team not getting 100 points then people will try the bullshit gotcha game no doubt.

If you have to ask if Leon can be a 100 point guy "without" McDavid then you simply haven't been watching.

For example Leon had 65 ESP last year in what was considered a down year and this was his help

Leon Draisaitl - Fantasy Hockey Game Logs, Advanced Stats and more - Frozen Tools

Find out Leon Draisaitl's latest linemates, game logs, advanced stats, player cards, news and analysis from dobberhockey.com

frozenpool.dobbersports.com

Sure McDavid was his best linemate but let's not pretend that all of the other top scorers have great ES linemates as well.

 

[wetcoast]

I guess you are trying to say Lidstrom wasn't around in his prime during the period when Chara was at his peak? Not sure that's accurate....I think at least 6 of Lidstrom's 7 Norris trophies were during Chara's peak years.

Lidstrom was 32 years old when Chara had his first top 10 Norris finish in 02-03.

The following year, where Lidstrom had a down year and finishes 6th in Norris voting, Chara was 2nd behind Nieds and after the lockout he was 4th behind 2 35 year olds and Nieds again who was 32 so no chara wasn't really getting blocked by other Dmen in their primes.

In fact if you go back and look at the 95, 96 and 97 drafts chara;s competition for Dmen simply wasn't that great.

 

[wetcoast]

Yes?

Cups absolutely matter when we're comparing careers.

Also, just posting points doesn't encapsulate what Kopitar meant to those Kings teams.

Not to mention Kopitar's prime was in a significantly lower-scoring NHL. His 20 points to lead the tournament in 2012 would have ranked 10th in 2024.

Despite never winning the Conn Smythe, Kopitar led the playoffs in scoring en route to a Cup twice. That's only been done by 9 players.

Sure but none of this diminishes how prolific Drai has been in the playoffs, at best you can say that Kopitar is close but Drai simply has the edge and I love Kopitar and think he gets under rated but Drai hasn't had a bad or even so so post season ever.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

It’s between him and Kopitar and the Slovaks

 

[wetcoast]

This is always going to be the huge question around him, Malkin had to prove who he was without Crosby. Draisiatl needs to do the same without McDavid. He needs a decent sample size run at 1C without McDavid

No he really doesn't and this type of argument is really just another way for people to be lazy and not do some critical analysis and scouting of Drai.

Nothing more and nothing less and absolutely nothing to do with Drai.