Is Leon Draisaitl on pace to be the best non-“big six” nation hockey player ever?

[Stephen]

I have a healthy respect for Chara, but regardless of how Hart voting works, there was never a point where he was in the conversation for best player in the league.

I agree with some asterisks. Chara was definitely a high impact defenseman and one of the most dominant of his era... but because of the defensive nature of his game and playing the villain role, maybe he wasn't spiritually what you'd look for as a glamorous MVP type the way you would with a high skill, high end point producer.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I agree with some asterisks. Chara was definitely a high impact defenseman and one of the most dominant of his era... but because of the defensive nature of his game and playing the villain role, maybe he wasn't spiritually what you'd look for as a glamorous MVP type the way you would with a high skill, high end point producer.

He flat-out wasn’t an MVP level player. I agree that he was a top-tier defenseman at his peak — with the asterisk that it was an era without an A-list legend in their prime, so the top spot was kind of wide open to be taken.

Chara was unique in the way he influenced the game from a defensive perspective, simply swallowing up a whole side of the ice with that wingspan and making it pointless to engage in a crease battle or board battle. He was even among the best fighters in the league, on a team that liked to fight. And people seem to forget, he had the biggest slapshot in the league and sometimes played an effective net front role on the power play. Around Chara’s peak circa 2009 or so, I was watched almost every game the Bruins played and can testify that the more you watched him, the more you realized the extent to which he tilted the game. I have seen a similar impact from Jaccob Slavin defensively, but Slavin doesn’t have that slapshot, or the menacing physical presence which visibly changes the way opponents behave on the ice, or the tone-setting aura that defines the personality of a team. Chara was just a different animal.

BUT, he was not anywhere near the conversation with peak Crosby, or peak Ovechkin, or peak Malkin. Those three were clowning the league and Chara was not at that level of impact. It wasn’t just that they were flashy, it’s that they were better players.

 

[Stephen]

He flat-out wasn’t an MVP level player. I agree that he was a top-tier defenseman at his peak — with the asterisk that it was an era without an A-list legend in their prime, so the top spot was kind of wide open to be taken.

Chara was unique in the way he influenced the game from a defensive perspective, simply swallowing up a whole side of the ice with that wingspan and making it pointless to engage in a crease battle or board battle. He was even among the best fighters in the league, on a team that liked to fight. And people seem to forget, he had the biggest slapshot in the league and sometimes played an effective net front role on the power play. Around Chara’s peak circa 2009 or so, I was watched almost every game the Bruins played and can testify that the more you watched him, the more you realized the extent to which he tilted the game. I have seen a similar impact from Jaccob Slavin defensively, but Slavin doesn’t have that slapshot, or the menacing physical presence which visibly changes the way opponents behave on the ice, or the tone-setting aura that defines the personality of a team. Chara was just a different animal.

BUT, he was not anywhere near the conversation with peak Crosby, or peak Ovechkin, or peak Malkin. Those three were clowning the league and Chara was not at that level of impact. It wasn’t just that they were flashy, it’s that they were better players.

You might be underrating the menacing physical presence that Chara brought a little bit. It was a non "skill" based attribute but it was a game changing element and for a few years in the late 2000s and early 2010s that made the Bruins dominant. I'd say Chara's physical intimidation was more than what Pronger brought, and a lot more than Hedman brought but he wasn't nearly as refined as either of them. I wouldn't give him an MVP for any standout campaign either but he was a unique force.

 

[tarheelhockey]

You might be underrating the menacing physical presence that Chara brought a little bit. It was a non "skill" based attribute but it was a game changing element and for a few years in the late 2000s and early 2010s that made the Bruins dominant. I'd say Chara's physical intimidation was more than what Pronger brought, and a lot more than Hedman brought but he wasn't nearly as refined as either of them. I wouldn't give him an MVP for any standout campaign either but he was a unique force.

I’m not underrating it, trust me.

Chara’s physicality wasn’t more than what Pronger brought. His strength and sheer size was the advantage over Pronger. That wingspan was ridiculous, unique in the history of the sport. And he wasn’t just a big hitter, he was physically stronger than any of his opponents and knew how to use it. His dad was an Olympic wrestler, and Chara trained at Greco-Roman in the summer. Trying to battle him along the boards wasn’t about Pronger-style nastiness and physicality, it was about a giant man using leverage that would just smother an opponent the way an ordinary man could restrain a child.

The biggest flaw with Chara was that he didn’t have the skill level to really dominate the puck. He could pound it as long as someone set him up, and he was usually able to get a stick on anything within 15 feet of him. But he wasn’t a particularly effective rusher or point QB… not that he was bad, but you wanted someone else on the ice who could do a bit of playmaking for him. That’s where he gets eclipsed a bit by the peaks of guys like Lidstrom and Keith who put it all together in one package even if they lacked the physical dimensions of a Chara. And certainly you’d look at the impact of a peak Ovechkin, the physicality he brought along with the offensive domination, or peak Crosby or Malkin, and Chara didn’t quite have that level of game-takeover skill. If I had to rank him against forwards I’d say Chara was more at the Datsyuk level of impact, and Datsyuk notably didn’t hold a candle to those big 3 forwards either.

 

[Connor McConnor]

I'm guessing you didn't watch hockey from 2003-2007 when he lead his team in scoring 2/3 seasons.

Ah yes two #10 hart finishes aka his best in his career. I love Hossa but over Drai? Lmao

 

[CanadienShark]

While Draisaitl has been strong in the playoffs, that he's struggled in the last three series the Oilers were eliminated in will stain his legacy. I get he's battled injuries, but it's hockey.

Year	Opponent	Games Played	Goals	Assists	Points	+-
2024	Florida	7	0	3	3	-2
2023	Vegas	6	6	1	7	-5
2022	Colorado	4	0	6	6	-3
Total		17	6	10	16	-10

McDavid for comparison

Year	Opponent	Games Played	Goals	Assists	Points	+-
2024	Florida	7	3	8	11	+5
2023	Vegas	6	5	5	10	0
2022	Colorado	4	3	4	7	-4
Total		17	11	17	28	+1

Yikes. Only 1 goal per game against Vegas? That's embarrassing.

Im all for Chara getting his due historically, but calling the 2011 Bruins thin on defense is incredibly wrong.

Chara - Seidenberg
Boychuk - Ference
Kaberle - McQuaid

That is arguably the best 1-6 D group in the cap era.

I wouldn't say best, but yeah, worst is an absurd statement by someone who's shown time and time again to be totally clueless in this thread. I'd say it's more "middle or the pack" compared to other cup winners. Far from a liability.

 

[CanadienShark]

2018.....



To be fair, defensemen usually hit their prime/peak in their late 20s and early 30s. Hence why at 26 he made his first AST and followed that up with another at 28, before winning his first Norris at 31.

Also in 2003 he was 2nd in ice time during that playoff run (25:07 to Reddens 25:08) so he was a pretty crucial part of the Sens. That year he also finished higher than Redden in Norris voting for what it's worth.

2018 was a year. What's your point?

 

[Antiillafire]

My perspective on the great Mikita. I would consider him to be both Slovak and Canadian. But I would argue him to be a Slovak player for the following reasons.

Stan never actually represented Canada at an official IIHF event. He played two summit series games in Canada for canada, an event that is not IIHF sanctioned. Players all the time play for teams who give them the opportunity first, most notably it just happened in Slovakia. Vladimir Dravecky Jr was given the chance to play for Czechia, after he was shamelessly “rejected” by the Slovak NT due to its incompetence. Dravecky can actually still represent Slovakia as the Hlinka tournament is not IIHF sanctioned. Is Dravecky Jr now not Slovak, and only Czech. What if he switched back to Slovakia, is he now not Czech despite just representing them? Athletes want to play the best, and will seize these chances when given the opportunity.

Mikita was never actually given the chance to represent Czechoslovakia, due to the tensions between the West and East. But also due to tensions within the Czechoslovak hockey federations fueled by larger political tensions within the Warsaw Pact members (having just invaded our country 4 years prior). Luka Radivojevic was born in the USA, played a few seasons in Sweden and is representing Slovakia. Luka was given the chance to play for Sweden, USA or Slovakia. He chose Slovakia because he feels Slovak. Mikita was never given the chance to choose Slovakia (Czechoslovakia at the time). However Stan would often wear the Czechoslovak jersey for various exhibition games when he returned to visit his family in Europe. Mikita gave interviews to Slovak journalists where he considered himself Slovak. His family has also said that Stan would’ve likely represented Czechoslovakia in a perfect world when he played in the NHL.

If Canadians want to claim that he’s a Canadian player I have zero problems with it. But to insult Stan’s Slovak origins and claim it’s xenophobic or bigoted for Slovaks to claim him as their own is delusional.



As for Drai, I think he’s well on the path to pass Mikita, if he hasn’t done so already.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

He flat-out wasn’t an MVP level player. I agree that he was a top-tier defenseman at his peak — with the asterisk that it was an era without an A-list legend in their prime, so the top spot was kind of wide open to be taken.

Chara was unique in the way he influenced the game from a defensive perspective, simply swallowing up a whole side of the ice with that wingspan and making it pointless to engage in a crease battle or board battle. He was even among the best fighters in the league, on a team that liked to fight. And people seem to forget, he had the biggest slapshot in the league and sometimes played an effective net front role on the power play. Around Chara’s peak circa 2009 or so, I was watched almost every game the Bruins played and can testify that the more you watched him, the more you realized the extent to which he tilted the game. I have seen a similar impact from Jaccob Slavin defensively, but Slavin doesn’t have that slapshot, or the menacing physical presence which visibly changes the way opponents behave on the ice, or the tone-setting aura that defines the personality of a team. Chara was just a different animal.

BUT, he was not anywhere near the conversation with peak Crosby, or peak Ovechkin, or peak Malkin. Those three were clowning the league and Chara was not at that level of impact. It wasn’t just that they were flashy, it’s that they were better players.

Does it feel like Drai to you was considered the best player in the league? It feels like there was 1 year where he was brought up with McDavid and Kucherov and then I haven’t really heard his name since.

Would be curious to get some insight from other posters. If Drai was considered the best player in the world in 2020, then can we say the same about 2016 Kane? 2011 Sedin? I’m curious what the consensus is on this, as to me those were always hot takes and it felt like the majority always placed McDavid as firmly the best.

Some other ‘hot take’ best players in the world:
Federov
Datsyuk
Toews

 

[Hasbro]

My life is similar to Mikita.
I was born in Poland, moved to Canada when I was 4.

If I played hockey internationally, I'd consider myself Canadian first. Just like Wojtek Wolski did.

So if you weren't good enough for Team Canada and Team Poland invited you?

 

[Voight]

2018 was a year. What's your point?

He was close to McDavid that year. 16 less points sure, but he was the best two-way player in the league that year.

So it's false to say Kopitar was never anywhere close to McDavid.

Ah yes two #10 hart finishes aka his best in his career. I love Hossa but over Drai? Lmao

My point was calling him a support player isn't fair. In the latter half of his career yes he was one but there was a time when he was the main guy even when he played on the same team as Kovalchuk.

 

[Coffey]

So if you weren't good enough for Team Canada and Team Poland invited you?

Pfft, I ain't Brett Hull.

 

[Hasbro]

Pfft, I ain't Brett Hull.

How about Dan Sprong?

 

[Coffey]

How about Dan Sprong?

Well I'm a Canadian citizen unlike Sprong lol

 

[Machinehead]

Right now, Mikita and Kopitar have had better careers, but Draisaitl is only 28. If you're asking me if he's well-positioned, then yeah, probably.

It would help his case a lot if he wins a Cup. Fair or not, that's going to go a long way on Kopitar's resume.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Does it feel like Drai to you was considered the best player in the league? It feels like there was 1 year where he was brought up with McDavid and Kucherov and then I haven’t really heard his name since.

Would be curious to get some insight from other posters. If Drai was considered the best player in the world in 2020, then can we say the same about 2016 Kane? 2011 Sedin? I’m curious what the consensus is on this, as to me those were always hot takes and it felt like the majority always placed McDavid as firmly the best.

Some other ‘hot take’ best players in the world:
Federov
Datsyuk
Toews

I wouldn’t and didn’t say he was the best player in the league, but he has been in that conversation more often than not in his career. He’s in that “Malkin” position where everyone realizes there’s a guy on his own team who will always be considered the better player over the long run, but there will also be stretches of time where he actually has the better performance (hence the Harts that Draisatl and Malkin have both won).

Just some snapshot examples: this thread from 2020 has Draisaitl as the third best player in the league, behind McDavid who was taken for granted and MacKinnon who was strongly favored when that poll was taken. This thread from 2021 again has him behind McDavid (taken for granted) and MacKinnon, this time somewhat closer. This thread from 2023 had him narrowly behind McDavid (again taken for granted) and Makar. In between the snapshots, there were times when Draisaitl surged into being the chic pick for the #2 spot.

I don’t think there was ever a time that Chara would have been seriously suggested as the 2nd or 3rd best player in the NHL, not even for the brief period when he was viewed as (arguably) the best defenseman going.

 

[Craig Button]

I like to see what he cans do without McDavid.

Mario Lemieux made Kevin Stevens and Rich Tocchet 100+ point players

Can Leon be a 100+ Point player without McDavid??

I doubt it

 

[HighLifeMan]

Draisaitl is already on pace to be ahead of Kopitar. Kopitar put up more than 80 points twice in 9 seasons. Drai has done it in 6 of 10 with 5 of those seasons being 100+. Draisaitl is also a far more prolific playoff scorer.

Ahh, yes. Let's just completely ignore context and and only place value on point production alone.

Anze Kopitar has led the Kings in scoring during 14 of his 17 NHL seasons, most times by a significant margin, where as Draisaitl has played second fiddle to McDavid for the entirety of his career. We are also talking about a two time Selke winner and Stanley cup champion.

He's had better seasons than McDavid and better stretches. Something Kopitar has never come remotely close to even sniffing. Sorry that it hurts you to hear. Draisaitl is going to retire as a whole other level of player.

Better seasons? He's had one season where he outscored McDavid and it took an injury to do so, and it was by a miniscule margin (0.03 pts/g). Draisaitl is a major benefactor of playing alongside the best player in the world. I suppose Jarri Kurri is a top three playoff performer of all time, too, since that's what the counting stats suggest.

Draisaitl doesn't belong in the same conversation as McDavid.

 

[Duke74]

I like to see what he cans do without McDavid.

Mario Lemieux made Kevin Stevens and Rich Tocchet 100+ point players

Can Leon be a 100+ Point player without McDavid??

I doubt it

This year will be a good measuring stick because, for the first time in his career, Draisaitl should have two competent top-six wingers away from McDavid.

 

[Skolman]

Right now, Mikita and Kopitar have had better careers, but Draisaitl is only 28. If you're asking me if he's well-positioned, then yeah, probably.

It would help his case a lot if he wins a Cup. Fair or not, that's going to go a long way on Kopitar's resume.

Is this a serious argument...?

Draisaitl has 108 points in 74 playoff games.
Kopitar has 80 points in 97 playoff games.

 

[Toby91ca]

He flat-out wasn’t an MVP level player. I agree that he was a top-tier defenseman at his peak — with the asterisk that it was an era without an A-list legend in their prime, so the top spot was kind of wide open to be taken.

I guess you are trying to say Lidstrom wasn't around in his prime during the period when Chara was at his peak? Not sure that's accurate....I think at least 6 of Lidstrom's 7 Norris trophies were during Chara's peak years.

 

[Machinehead]

Is this a serious argument...?

Draisaitl has 108 points in 74 playoff games.
Kopitar has 80 points in 97 playoff games.

Yes?

Cups absolutely matter when we're comparing careers.

Also, just posting points doesn't encapsulate what Kopitar meant to those Kings teams.

Not to mention Kopitar's prime was in a significantly lower-scoring NHL. His 20 points to lead the tournament in 2012 would have ranked 10th in 2024.

Despite never winning the Conn Smythe, Kopitar led the playoffs in scoring en route to a Cup twice. That's only been done by 9 players.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I guess you are trying to say Lidstrom wasn't around in his prime during the period when Chara was at his peak? Not sure that's accurate....I think at least 6 of Lidstrom's 7 Norris trophies were during Chara's peak years.

Chara peaked around 2008-2012. Lidstrom was well past his prime by then, with his infamous career-achievement Norris coming in 2011.

I’m sure someone will point to Chara’s 2004 season, but IMO that was more like a breakout season than a peak.

 

[brentashton]

There’s a big six in hockey of Canada, USA, Russia, Czechia, Sweden, and Finland that have produced most of the best players of all time, including most of the best current players.

Is Leon Draisaitl on pace to become the best hockey player ever from another country?

Get on the train man. It’s already happened.

 

[brentashton]

Pfft, I ain't Brett Hull.

Brian Trottier then?