Is Leon Draisaitl Gonna Break Nathan MacKinnon's Hart?

[benfranklin]

I read statements like this a lot on HF.

The old you wouldn't be as good if your best player wasn't on the team. That is true for every single team in hockey at every single level. Little Billy Hattrick gets a flu and his house league team isn't as good either.

I always wonder though... why we just remove 10 to 14 million dollar players and never use that money to bolster the team? Eg. you remove McD who makes 12 or so. Cap is 82 or so. So I agree if the Oilers only had 70 million in players and no McD that they'd be a bubble team or maybe a good AHL team. I just don't get why we can't have out best players or why we can't use the cap to get other good players?

I'll add though to the bubble argument

Remove Marner and Leafs are a bubble team
Remove Hughes and Nucks are a bubble team (oh wait...)
Remove Makar and Avs are a bubble team

Why are we removing players? Isn't the whole point to get as strong a roster as possible? Get the best players and keep them?

Youre not wrong, but it also doesnt support the argument for McDavid nor Draisaitl being Hart worthy. You can argue who is the MVP of the Oilers in circles foreever. They switch every third season apparently, but that in itself supports why others are more valuable to their teams more.

But also, remove Drais or McDavid and replace their cap hit with 2 40-50 point players or 3/4 20-30 point players and assuming the player still there goes ham and puts up 150 points, he is 1000000% Hart worthy.

See the difference on why IMO, they hurt eachothers Hart chance?. You can disagree and I respect that, but I think my logic is pretty sound. Without one or the other being a good 20-30 points above the other, they will lose Hart votes.

 

[Oilslick941611]

I dont understand the Kucherov is a villain thing. I don't see him that way at all.

just remember every villain in history has had followers that dont see anything wrong with them.

 

[benfranklin]

Hughes and Hellebuyck absolutely matter more for their teams than Draisaitl does for the Oilers. But again, the argument of who should win the Hart is a different one from who will win the Hart. If things continue similarly I think Draisaitl wins it comfortably.

HF said that about Kuch last year and MacKinnon dominated voting. If McDavid/Drais are close in scoring, Drais does not win comfortably. He may still win it because its archaic newspaper guys voting who simply look at scoring and +/- only, but I think last year proved voting is starting to shift.

 

[NotAVacuumSalesman]

- you can’t have other good players on your team
- you’re not allowed to score on the power play
- or on empty nets
- good guys only, no villains
- no injuries allowed
- recency bias is fine; end of the season >>>

What else am I missing here? Just trying to make an informed decision.

Gotta drag your carcass team into the playoffs!

 

[GoldenKnight]

Maybe Werenski wins this year, if the Jackets make the playoffs?

He has the media narrative behind him, and his "value" to his team probably skyrocketed after Columbus tragically lost their best forward in the summer.

 

[nightonthesun]

Gotta drag your carcass team into the playoffs!

Ahh. Bad teams only!

 

[LTIR]

MacKinnon , Kuch and Drai can do their cute race but McDavid will be at the top of points chart with a double digit lead on all by the end of the season.

 

[Toby91ca]

MacKinnon , Kuch and Drai can do their cute race but McDavid will be at the top of points chart with a double digit lead on all by the end of the season.

So I'm clear, you think with EDM's remaining 28 games, McDavid is going to outscore Draisaitl by a minimum of 20points?

 

[DaPhazz]

you spelled Kucherov's name wrong and forget to mentioned he is doing it the 2nd season in a row.

Gotta love the 'name spelled wrong' thing, perfect to spot a bot / uninspired poster

 

[LTIR]

So I'm clear, you think with EDM's remaining 28 games, McDavid is going to outscore Draisaitl by a minimum of 20points?

Yes

 

[Video Nasty]

Cold spell for MacKinnon and the Avs. 16 points in his past 16 games and just 7 wins.

Pretty sure he didn’t have a stretch like that all of last season. Closest I can see is his opening 16 games where he had 20 points.

Not as explosive of a race as last season, but it’ll still be interesting to see the final third of the season unfold.

 

[Johnny HFBOARDS]

Headline should read: Helly uses pads to Drysaitl some tears and breaking Mac's Hart.

 

[Habssince89]

It will be an interesting finish if they all can stay healthy. IMHO- Kucherov is far from the NHL's biggest villain. Methinks you watch Don Cherry for inspiration.

Naw he fully embraces the villain role. Whining to refs because he didn't score, tantrums, dirty hits and hiding behind others. The guy knows what he's doing

 

[Grifter3511]

When you consider Leon is leading the league in goals, game winners, and even strength goals, has played less games, put up 11 points in the 6 games McDavid missed (4-2 record), and has only scored 2 ENG's all year it's hard not to vote for him.

Yeah, sure....but those are all just like, facts, man.

 

[wetcoast]

Cold spell for MacKinnon and the Avs. 16 points in his past 16 games and just 7 wins.

Pretty sure he didn’t have a stretch like that all of last season. Closest I can see is his opening 16 games where he had 20 points.

Not as explosive of a race as last season, but it’ll still be interesting to see the final third of the season unfold.

I remeber an extended shift agasint the cancuks where the avs jsut dominated but demko came up bi, Makar ahd a couple of missed shots and EP dman version also prevented a sure goal.

Mack is an exciting player and lock for the HHOF but slipping out of the Hart race behind Drai and Helly.

 

[LokiDog]

Wouldn’t it still be McDavid’s Hart? I mean, if you’re a product of someone else, then isn’t everything you produce also a product of that person?

 

[Grifter3511]

I dont understand the Kucherov is a villain thing. I don't see him that way at all.

Him and Stone are in the same boat. Their teams had some questionable LTIR loophole success and now their top players are dirty villains.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

IMO the only real competition for Draisaitl is Hellebuyck and goalies simply don't get as many Hart votes as they should.

Quinn Hughes is the only reason the Canucks are even competitive this year, but he's going to be hurt by the fact that they're *barely* competitive. They might miss, and if they don't, they'll only barely squeak into a wildcard spot.

MacKinnon will get votes but his numbers are juiced by empty net points and he's cooled off a fair bit, "only" being a PPG in the last month. Kucherov will get votes but unless he beats Leon by ~20 points I don't think he's winning.

 

[Voight]

Him and Stone are in the same boat. Their teams had some questionable LTIR loophole success and now their top players are dirty villains.

Which is just dumb.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Wouldn’t it still be McDavid’s Hart? I mean, if you’re a product of someone else, then isn’t everything you produce also a product of that person?

Assuming sarcasm, but any Oiler fan will tell you Draisaitl has been orders of magnitude better than McDavid this year, and it's not particularly close.

 

[Super Hans]

I'm not a Hart voter. I understand that some of MacKinnon's vote last year was likely because he "was due". The reason I would have voted MacKinnon over McDavid and Kucherov last year when they were so close in points was the goals > assists argument. As we stand now, I will award Draisaitl the Hart rub for the same reason, without going into all the other fancy stats. I have Hellebuyck second, Hughes third.

 

[Video Nasty]

I remeber an extended shift agasint the cancuks where the avs jsut dominated but demko came up bi, Makar ahd a couple of missed shots and EP dman version also prevented a sure goal.

Mack is an exciting player and lock for the HHOF but slipping out of the Hart race behind Drai and Helly.

With just 27 games to go, I think he’ll remain a finalist, barring injury or going completely offline.

I agree that it’s Draisaitl or Hellebuyck at this point. Leading the league in goals and points, paired with his really impressive two-way game all year, combined with McDavid’s pair of three game absences will probably be enough for Drai to win a close one over Hellebuyck, who I think would have an even greater chance of winning if the current Art Ross leader wasn’t also leading in goals.

On a side note, this might be the first season since McDavid’s rookie year where he’s not a top 5 nomination. Half of his missed games being due to suspension not only keeps him further back in the scoring race, but will likely ding him even further when it comes to why he wasn’t available to his team (for right or wrong reasons, he lost control which is still something within his control).

 

[Coffey]

- you can’t have other good players on your team
- you’re not allowed to score on the power play
- or on empty nets
- good guys only, no villains
- no injuries allowed
- recency bias is fine; end of the season >>>

What else am I missing here? Just trying to make an informed decision.

Right on the money.

Only person allowed to win is going to be Canadian, with no PP points, no empty net goals, full 82 game season and has no other superstars on his team.

Congrats on your Hart, Connor Bedard!

 

[LokiDog]

Assuming sarcasm, but any Oiler fan will tell you Draisaitl has been orders of magnitude better than McDavid this year, and it's not particularly close.

So much sarcasm. I f***ing love Leon. Good luck the rest of the way.

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

I'm still pissed Kuch got robbed of the Hart last year. Can anyone else name a season where the Art Ross winner made the playoffs but lost the Hart to another forward? I believe the only other instance is Lemieux in 91-92. Lemieux got robbed that year but maybe the one knock on him was his teammate finished 2nd in scoring. In contrast Kucherov had the highest teammate point gap in the entire league last year.