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Is John Tavares a Hall of Fame Center?

qcal1427 said:
Hart finalist definitely means something. It is not hardware. When it comes to the Hall of Fame that makes a difference.

Ovi for years "basically" had a conference finals appearance. McDavid "basically" won a cup last year.
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What makes you think that?

Based on how voters have voted... it is not a significant difference.

I guess it's people who think like you do who were shocked Shea Weber was instantly in the HOF. I was shocked at that so many people did not expect it. Many kept saying, he has no Norris.... he was 2nd by the smallest margins 2 times. That absolutely is still significant to HOF voters and reality.
 
Probably not and don’t think he deserves it either. He was never a top 10 player in the league in any season he has played in while accomplishing nothing
 
qcal1427 said:
Hart finalist definitely means something. It is not hardware. When it comes to the Hall of Fame that makes a difference.

Ovi for years "basically" had a conference finals appearance. McDavid "basically" won a cup last year.
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He arguably shouldn’t have even been a finalist over Toews who had more first place votes than him in said season
 
BlueBull said:
433 Goals, 558 Assists, 991 Points, 1043 Games.
1 Time All-Star Team

He is approaching 1000 Points and he only just turned 33, but there have been a lot of people talking about how much of a liability he is as a captain, so I'm questioning if he is Hall of Fame calibre...

Is he a Hall of Fame calibre?

Let's Discuss.
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He would be your #1 C in Montreal.
 
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ColbyChaos said:
He arguably shouldn’t have even been a finalist over Toews who had more first place votes than him in said season
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Even if we grant this flimsy premise, Tavares would be fourth that year. How do you stand up an argument that "He was never a top 10 player in the league in any season he has played in"?
 
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He's had a bit of a strange career, at one point in his mid 20s he was a top 10,maybe even top 5 player in the game at one point. His standing in the game started to drop really quickly though even when he was still only in his late 20's. Maybe he lost a step early or maybe the league got faster.
 
I think I have said it before in this thread...he will likely be a hall of famer. People here probably forget he was a top 3-5 forward in the league for a 4-5 year period early in his career. Around those years he was a top-10 centre in the league for a number of years.

Look at the quality of linemates he had with the Islanders. There were several seasons in which he finished far ahead in points of the next highest Islander. The lack of talent on those teams is very noticeable. He likely has another 100 + points during those 9 seasons with the Islanders if he happened to have an actual 1rst line winger to play with during most of that period.

Tavares will likely finish with over 1300 points in his NHL career. Every retired player with over 1300 points has been inducted....and looking at the players in the hall of fame, he is better than probably 25% of them, maybe more.

He might wait a few years, but he will likely get in.
 
He should get on the fact he currently plays for the Leafs (that's a thing....right?)

AKA, it's close. By pure numbers yes, by all other standards, not so much. You do wonder if Toronto helps or hurts his cause. On one hand he played a bunch of season on a underwhelming Islanders team. On the other hand, the year he leaves the Islanders are predicted to be dead last and make the playoffs and the ECF 2xs while in Toronto, with a much better team, he's only been out of round one once.

I would compare him to Phillip Rivers.



I like neither of these guys, but Skip nails it when he said he should be in the hall of really good.
 
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Plastic Joseph said:
What I mean is that if you are a Hart finalist that should absolutely go on your resume as an accomplishment.

Finishing top 3 is not the same as being a 4th liner. Neither gets the trophy, but top 3 is a huge accomplishment too


For the first 6 or 7 years of his career finishing ppg was a top 5 finish most years. If scoring was up like today tavares would probably have a few 100 pt seasons. Again, 2 hart finalists > # of raw ppg total seasons
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I agree that it’s a huge accomplishment and I’m not taking anything away, but I have trouble putting it on a resume when there’s been a number of guys who have been finalists before. It’s a good footnote, but it can’t really be given much weight, and definitely not as a replacement for actual awards.

Yes, he did play in a lower scoring era in his first few years, but you have to apply that same logic with everyone and also raise their numbers. The fact remains that, outside of a couple seasons, Tavares was on the outside looking in in relation to the true elite top end players.
 
I feel like he's in that weird spot of objectively having the resume but never feeling like a Hall of Famer.

Marc-Andre Fleury is in the same zip code.
 
MattMartin said:
And heck, he got a couple of SC wins also.
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And I'm in the camp of voting yes for MAF, so I guess yes to Tavares too.

Although Fleury is 2nd in wins and 12th in shutouts, so his stats, compiled as they might be, are a bit more undeniable.

Then again, Fleury is 40. If Tavares plays six more years, he probably has 1,500 points. I think that's undeniable.
 
Machinehead said:
And I'm in the camp of voting yes for MAF, so I guess yes to Tavares too.

Although Fleury is 2nd in wins and 12th in shutouts, so his stats, compiled as they might be, are a bit more undeniable.

Then again, Fleury is 40. If Tavares plays six more years, he probably has 1,500 points. I think that's undeniable.
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Check out the Phillip Rivers comparison, pretty spot on in terms of the numbers game and the not so much winning game also.
 
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MattMartin said:
Check out the Phillip Rivers comparison, pretty spot on in terms of the numbers game and the not so much winning game also.
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Yeah, and that's another weird one.

Like, I would put Eli in. But I'm very much a narrative guy when it comes to the HOF. If you did something cool and had decent enough numbers, I care that you did something cool.

But then you arrive at: Phillip Rivers was probably a better quarterback.
 
Machinehead said:
Yeah, and that's another weird one.

Like, I would put Eli in. But I'm very much a narrative guy when it comes to the HOF. If you did something cool and had decent enough numbers, I care that you did something cool.

But then you arrive at: Phillip Rivers was probably a better quarterback.
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It's funny because they were traded for each other and are complete opposites in terms of "winning" Phillip Rivers numbers blows Eli's away but Eli has those 2 SB wins. If we combined them, we could make a Peyton Manning.
 
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It's a tough call. It's crazy to say about a guy who has 1100 points, but I feel like he never lived up to his draft hype. I think people were expecting a McDavid/Crosby type NHL career for him, but he never reached those levels. He still was/is a great player though.
 
Bear of Bad News said:
Even if we grant this flimsy premise, Tavares would be fourth that year. How do you stand up an argument that "He was never a top 10 player in the league in any season he has played in"?
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Because Crosby, Malkin, Ovi, Kane, Toews Stamkos , Doughty, Weber, Keith, Quick, Price, Getzlaf, Perry, the Sedins, and Lundqvist exist and played during his hart finalist years

Edit: forgot EK65 so add him as well
 
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