Is John Tavares a Hall of Fame Center?

[eviohh26]

I'm a Canucks fan and was extremely pleased the Sedins got in. But they pretty much only got in because they cleared 1000 points, and had only one major trophy each.

To be logically consistent with your position, you would have to be in favour of retroactively removing everyone in the Hall who just barely cleared 500 goals or 1000 points, including the Sedins, in order to raise the standard.

Winning the Art and Hart in the same season is basically a 1 way ticket to the Hall. So my logic would lead you to believe that hardware is what is needed to get in.

 

[TheDoldrums]

All those players shouldn't have made it either. My point stands and it applies to all players before and after him. You should need some hardware to make the hall.

Tavares lost the Art Ross by 1 point. That's a pretty arbitrary distinction to judge someone's entire career.

I'm a small Hall guy too but the toothpaste is out of the tube at this point. If guys like Andreychuk are in, the floodgates are open. Assuming Tavares stays healthy and plays another 4-5 years there really won't be any argument to keep him out considering how low the floor is for others.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

NO

 

[Giant Panda]

Now do Dino Ciccarelli.

Not the best HHOF inductee but was a star in his day. Better choice than Tavares, not by much.

 

[Giant Panda]

All those players shouldn't have made it either. My point stands and it applies to all players before and after him. You should need some hardware to make the hall.

For me as a Canuck fan I can see why the Sedins made it. Art ross's and Hart. But was always shocked that Luongo made it. He never won any awards. But that's the NHL Hall of Fame for ya .

I'm not surprised. Luongo has always been a star. The fact he was a captain as a goalie, multi time Pearson and Hart finalist, second all time games played as a goalie...

A history book of NHL goaltending without Luongo would be missing a big piece of NHL history.

 

[Jericho111091]

I probably wouldn't put him in, but he's better than some of the people in the hall

 

[yeaher]

nope

 

[authentic]

People around here can't seem to decide on whether Hart voters are geniuses or idiots, based on previous results.

Tavares was a fairly dominant player with below average linemates. He even had a one man show of a playoff series against Florida before leaving the Island. Even now he’s aged much better than people expected.

 

[TMLegend]

He's a lock. /Thread

 

[eviohh26]

Tavares lost the Art Ross by 1 point. That's a pretty arbitrary distinction to judge someone's entire career.

I'm a small Hall guy too but the toothpaste is out of the tube at this point. If guys like Andreychuk are in, the floodgates are open. Assuming Tavares stays healthy and plays another 4-5 years there really won't be any argument to keep him out considering how low the floor is for others.

I agree but I'm just saying the Hall should be harder to get into. Can't change it now when you got a bunch of Tavares like players in it already .

 

[CanadienShark]

He's one of those "he shouldn't be in, but he's better than others already in."

 

[Bear of Bad News]

He's a lock. /Thread

Please don’t end threads.

 

[Ford Prefect]

If Mats Sundin can get in, having no real harware or playoff success, then Tavares can get in. They'll both be right near a point a game when all is said and done. He was a top center for the majority of his career. I agree, he really should be in the Hall of Pretty Good, but until they construct that, he'll be in the HOF. They should have an honourary category for players like him.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

I dont think he’s particularly close, honestly.

I cant think of a time he was in consideration as one of the best centers in the game.

You were probably too focused on Toews at the time

 

[bambamcam4ever]

He'll prolly get in, but unless he wins a cup he shouldn't.

Zero personal awards
Zero playoff success
Zero heroic moments/runs in the playoffs

If he wins a cup then he can get in, but honestly he's just a higher end Patrick Marleau, except Marleau at least had 2 conference finals and a cup final appearance, Tavares has 2 2nd round stompings in his 15 year career.

Zero heroic moments in the playoffs? Like this just isn't true dude.

 

[RussianBum86]

Nope. No cups. Not a ppg player. Not a winner. No hardware. Never hit 50 plus goals when other players were hitting 50 to 60. Just an allstar and good player but does not belong with the greatest players of all time or even his era. Hall of fame should be only reserved for the best of the best of their eras. He isnt that.

 

[Legion34]

Probably 550 goals and 1250 pts.
2 time hart finalist. Missed Ross by a point.

Tons of junior and international accolades.

Of course he’s in.

The sedins are in. Right?

 

[shello]

100%, he put up incredible numbers back in the day. Wait oh NHL HHOF? No way. OHL sure

 

[Zybalto]

Tavares isn't in that group.

Sittler 5 x Top 10 Hart voting, 5 x top ten points, 3 x top ten goals - Point per game in playoffs
Savard 3 x Top 10 Hart voting, 5 x top ten points, 3 x top ten goals - Over point per game in playoffs
Hawerchuk 3 x Top 10 Hart voting (finished 2nd to Gretz once), 4 x top 10 points, 3 x top 10 goals, point per game in playoffs

Savard and Hawerchuk had some truly elite seasons and Sittler was a consistent top ten Hart candidate. All did better in points relative to peers. And all were at least close to regular season performance in the postseason.

Pierre Turgeon is considered a weaker inductee. Let's see how he compares.

Turgeon 1 x Top 5 in Hart, 2 x top 10 in points, 1 x top 10 in goals, 72/82 in playoffs
Tavares 2 x Top 5 in Hart, 2 x top 10 in points, 5 x top 10 in goals, 61/82 in playoffs

Tavares is a lot closer to Turgeon than the others. His regular seasons are comparable but he has better goals relative to competition. His playoffs are a fair bit worse than his regular seasons as there's quite a dropoff there.

Tavares is a marginal candidate at this point. With 5 x top ten in goals, I'd probably put him in but I don't think he's a lock.

Bravo I guess but allow me to retort. stretching things out to top 10s helps the other guys a bit I guess but lets get down to the peak.

Tavares has 2 top 3 finishes for the Hart. His comparables from that excellent article (Sittler/Savard/Hawerchuk/Perrault/Stastny) have a total of 3 top 3 combined. No player who has 2 top 3 finishes have failed to make the HHOF.

He finished 1st team all-star in 2015 over prime Crosby/Stamkos/Getzlaf. Combined 1st team for the rest on the list: 0 No 1st team AS center in modern history (since 1954) has failed to make the HHOF.

Tavares 3 year peak is the highest of anyone on that list.

While Tavares only has 1 top 5 finish for points (missing out on an Art Ross with a Benn secondary assist on an empty net with 9 seconds left in the season) but has 3 top 5 finishes for goal scoring. Combined top 5 seasons for goal scoring from the rest of those guys: 0

Tavares is easily the best goal scorer on that list.

Era-adjusted scoring numbers for career:

Goals:
1. Tavares: 560
2. Hawerchuk: 435
3. Perrault: 434
4. Sittler: 409
5. Savard: 398
6. Stastny: 364

Savard was more of a playmaker and Stastny got a late start but Tavares was in another world when it comes to goal scoring.

Points:
1. Tavares: 1240
2. Hawerchuk: 1189
3. Perrault: 1134
4. Savard: 1123
5. Stastny: 1001
6. Sittler: 959

Tavares at 34 is still going strong (tied for 10th in goals and top 30 for points in the league) and is going to end up with numbers that blow the others away.

Since he stepped into the league as a 19 year old (16 seasons including this one), here are the top 5 for goals and points in the league:

Goals:
1. Ovi
2. Stamkos
3. Tavares
4. Crosby
5. Kane

Points:
1. Crosby
2. Ovi
3. Kane
4. Stamkos
5. Tavares

Over a decade and a half of being top 3 for goals and top 5 for points, going to finish with era adjusted numbers that are ludicrously higher, is easily the best goal scorer of anyone on the list, has the highest peak of all those guys, is as decorated internationally as anyone and he's not in the other guys league? Are you sure?

Considering all those other 1st or 2nd ballot HoFers have a combined 1 cup between them (Savard in 93), even the playoff issues are somewhat overblown (they had a no cap smaller league to play in too). Don't let the live puck naked goalie era numbers sway you. Enough dead puck players dont get the accolades they deserve and Tavares had to deal with that through the prime of his career too.

A final note, Turgeon was absolutely an underrated player that didnt get his props but he suffers from the same problem as the rest when comparing to Tavares. He wasnt close to the goal scorer Tavares is, was never close to making an all star team, wasnt close to Tavares peak and is still going to end up with numbers far behind Tavares.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

Those Sedin sisters in the HHOF is a total farce.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Probably. Just needs to pad the stats a while.

 

[Zybalto]

Probably 550 goals and 1250 pts.
2 time hart finalist. Missed Ross by a point.

Tons of junior and international accolades.

Of course he’s in.

The sedins are in. Right?

Considering hes currently at 492 goals and 1110 points (in a not yet finished 36 goal, 70 point season) thats a pretty conservative estimate on his end totals IMO. Barring injury, hes getting 600/1300.

 

[Staniowski]

Tavares is an easy, obvious hall-of-famer.

He has a great chance to get to 1300 points, maybe more.

Very well-known, good reputation. Nothing holding him back.

 

[Ezpz]

Hall of very good but when you've got Recchi in there compiling has merit.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Bravo I guess but allow me to retort. stretching things out to top 10s helps the other guys a bit I guess but lets get down to the peak.

I always look at top ten. If a player is exclusively top five (as Tavares is) then I point it out as I did for him. Two top fives is good.

Tavares has 2 top 3 finishes for the Hart. His comparables from that excellent article (Sittler/Savard/Hawerchuk/Perrault/Stastny) have a total of 3 top 3 combined. No player who has 2 top 3 finishes have failed to make the HHOF.

Okay. But how many have only two top 3 finishes and no other top tens?

He finished 1st team all-star in 2015 over prime Crosby/Stamkos/Getzlaf. Combined 1st team for the rest on the list: 0 No 1st team AS center in modern history (since 1954) has failed to make the HHOF.

I'm sorry, but that's more trivia that an argument for the HOF.

Tavares 3 year peak is the highest of anyone on that list.

Hawerchuk finishes 2nd to Gretzky. Savard loses out an Art Ross to Lemieux and Gretz. At no point in time was Tavares as good as Savard was. Also, I'm not sure if I credited Hawerchuk properly. He actually has four top ten Hart noms. Two are top five with him coming second in one of those to Grez.

While Tavares only has 1 top 5 finish for points (missing out on an Art Ross with a Benn secondary assist on an empty net with 9 seconds left in the season) but has 3 top 5 finishes for goal scoring. Combined top 5 seasons for goal scoring from the rest of those guys: 0

Tavares is easily the best goal scorer on that list.

Era-adjusted scoring numbers for career:

Goals:
1. Tavares: 560
2. Hawerchuk: 435
3. Perrault: 434
4. Sittler: 409
5. Savard: 398
6. Stastny: 364

Savard was more of a playmaker and Stastny got a late start but Tavares was in another world when it comes to goal scoring.

I'm not a big fan of era adjusted numbers. Monsters like Lemieux and Gretz along with their teammates kind of skew things. I am a big fan of looking at finishes. And as I pointed out, Tavares has five top tens. That's probably his best argument.

Points:
1. Tavares: 1240
2. Hawerchuk: 1189
3. Perrault: 1134
4. Savard: 1123
5. Stastny: 1001
6. Sittler: 959

Okay, but again... look at them vs contemporaries. The others do better. They do better in Hart voting and point placements. Tavares has good goal finishes.

Tavares at 34 is still going strong (tied for 10th in goals and top 30 for points in the league) and is going to end up with numbers that blow the others away.

Since he stepped into the league as a 19 year old (16 seasons including this one), here are the top 5 for goals and points in the league:

Goals:
1. Ovi
2. Stamkos
3. Tavares
4. Crosby
5. Kane

Points:
1. Crosby
2. Ovi
3. Kane
4. Stamkos
5. Tavares

Over a decade and a half of being top 3 for goals and top 5 for points, going to finish with era adjusted numbers that are ludicrously higher, is easily the best goal scorer of anyone on the list, has the highest peak of all those guys, is as decorated internationally as anyone and he's not in the other guys league? Are you sure?

Considering all those other 1st or 2nd ballot HoFers have a combined 1 cup between them (Savard in 93), even the playoff issues are somewhat overblown (they had a no cap smaller league to play in too). Don't let the live puck naked goalie era numbers sway you. Enough dead puck players dont get the accolades they deserve and Tavares had to deal with that through the prime of his career too.

A final note, Turgeon was absolutely an underrated player that didnt get his props but he suffers from the same problem as the rest when comparing to Tavares. He wasnt close to the goal scorer Tavares is, was never close to making an all star team, wasnt close to Tavares peak and is still going to end up with numbers far behind Tavares.

As I said, I think Tavares gets in. But he's more Turgeon than Savard/Hawerchuk/Sittler. And what really hurts him is that he's by far the worst of all those players in the postseason. Not only have his teams not advanced, he's really underperformed.

So sure, I think he gets in. But he has to wait a while.