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Is John Tavares a Hall of Fame Center?

I dont think he’s particularly close, honestly.

I cant think of a time he was in consideration as one of the best centers in the game.
 
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Golden_Jet said:
Ya so he likely has to wait as well if he gets in.
He’s one of those borderline guys.
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I don't think that's unreasonable. I didn't say he was a shoe-in first ballot guy, if he does win a Stanley Cup at some point that could change that, but yeah he may have to wait a bit. Ultimately though he will get in - whereas that poster said it's an 'easy no', which has no basis given the players who are in the HHoF.
 
BTP said:
Consistency.
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Sometimes I wonder if people on this forum actually watch hockey or read up on its history, or they're just here to be a hater. It's not hard guys, especially in the information age that we are in, it is very easy to see who is in the Hall.
 
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BTP said:
Consistency.
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I understand the argument.

That said, for HHOF polls like this, I always ask myself a relatively simple question: Can you tell 'the story' of the NHL or international competition without this player?

And I just can't think of a single year or even a stretch of years where you couldn't describe everything important that happened on-ice without mentioning Tavares.

Particular team? Sure. I see Tavares falling squarely into that 'gets honored by the team, but not the HHOF' category of players.
 
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As with a lot of the guys being discussed recently I think he will pretty easily get in with how the Hall is currently run.

It really bothers me though seeing guys like him and Marchand with zero individual trophies of any kind be considered anything close to locks
 
I was pretty firmly NO on JT as an HHOFer but honestly he's going to be putting up enough points and goals that you can't keep him out. He has a legit shot at 600 goals if he plays another 3-4 seasons and 1300+ points.

Top 40 in points and top 20 in goals roughly. How do you not have that guy in the HOF?
 
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JaegerDice said:
I understand the argument.

That said, for HHOF polls like this, I always ask myself a relatively simple question: Can you tell 'the story' of the NHL or international competition without this player?

And I just can't think of a single year or even a stretch of years where you couldn't describe everything important that happened on-ice without mentioning Tavares.

Particular team? Sure. I see Tavares falling squarely into that 'gets honored by the team, but not the HHOF' category of players.
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That's not the HHOF criteria.

3 or 4 guys get in every year. On average, it works out to about 3 guys per draft year.

Look at the 2009 draft class. Hedman is ahead of him, but that's about it.

The HHOF standards are way lower than you think.
 
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JaegerDice said:
I understand the argument.

That said, for HHOF polls like this, I always ask myself a relatively simple question: Can you tell 'the story' of the NHL or international competition without this player?

And I just can't think of a single year or even a stretch of years where you couldn't describe everything important that happened on-ice without mentioning Tavares.

Particular team? Sure. I see Tavares falling squarely into that 'gets honored by the team, but not the HHOF' category of players.
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Interesting way to think about it. With that criterion I reckon players like Esa Tikkanen, Theo Fleury and Alex Mogilny should get in.

As for Tavares, I'm not a fan. He's been good, a franchise center, but a clear step below the best of his generation. Will have a very nice career but will have fallen short of his exceptional junior status but I feel like it's precisely that status, ie. being very good from super early on and sort of "good enough" in the NHL will get him in. The cumulative numbers will be very respectable. But he's quite forgettable, not a legend of the game.
 
Calderon said:
Interesting way to think about it. With that criterion I reckon players like Esa Tikkanen, Theo Fleury and Alex Mogilny should get in.

As for Tavares, I'm not a fan. He's been good, a franchise center, but a clear step below the best of his generation. Will have a very nice career but will have fallen short of his exceptional junior status but I feel like it's precisely that status, ie. being very good from super early on and sort of "good enough" in the NHL will get him in. The cumulative numbers will be very respectable. But he's quite forgettable, not a legend of the game.
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At his best he was legitimately a top ten player. But what really hurts him is the lack of playoff performance. If he went on a run with the Leafs and won the Smythe.... it's a totally different conversation.

But he underperforms there and just isn't quite dominant enough to be considered a really great player. I think he gets in by virtue of being good for a long time but he'll have to wait like Turgeon did.
 
He'll prolly get in, but unless he wins a cup he shouldn't.

Zero personal awards
Zero playoff success
Zero heroic moments/runs in the playoffs

If he wins a cup then he can get in, but honestly he's just a higher end Patrick Marleau, except Marleau at least had 2 conference finals and a cup final appearance, Tavares has 2 2nd round stompings in his 15 year career.
 
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Tairy Greene said:
I grew up watching them. I agree that Alfie and Mats were superior players to Tavares, but their career stats and lack of hardware (the argument against Tavares)are comparable and I think JT gets in eventually.
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DIfferent eras are affecting the stats though.
 
JaegerDice said:
I dont think he’s particularly close, honestly.

I cant think of a time he was in consideration as one of the best centers in the game.
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He’s been a Hart finalist twice. Finished second in points while on a bad team without any other offensive stars. He was definitely one of the best centres at one point.
 
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NVious said:
He'll prolly get in, but unless he wins a cup he shouldn't.

Zero personal awards
Zero playoff success
Zero heroic moments/runs in the playoffs

If he wins a cup then he can get in, but honestly he's just a higher end Patrick Marleau, except Marleau at least had 2 conference finals and a cup final appearance, Tavares has 2 2nd round stompings in his 15 year career.
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Dale Hawerchuk is in this same boat and had no issues getting in (granted, he played the same time as Gretzky and Lemieux but still).

He only had one deep playoff run and that was in his very last season in Philly; he was a bottom six player at that point.

Glenn Anderson did win six cups but he played on a dynasty team for five of them, and score 6 points on the last one. Was he a better player than Tavares? Nope, he just had the good fortune of ending up on the best team of his era.
 
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Voight said:
Dale Hawerchuk is in this same boat and had no issues getting in (granted, he played the same time as Gretzky and Lemieux but still).

He only had one deep playoff run and that was in his very last season in Philly; he was a bottom six player at that point.

Glenn Anderson did win six cups but he played on a dynasty team for five of them, and score 6 points on the last one. Was he a better player than Tavares? Nope, he just had the good fortune of ending up on the best team of his era.
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Personally I don't think other bad selections should mean he should get in, but I get it and think he'll get in, I just don't see him as a HOF player personally.
 
Calderon said:
Interesting way to think about it. With that criterion I reckon players like Esa Tikkanen, Theo Fleury and Alex Mogilny should get in.

As for Tavares, I'm not a fan. He's been good, a franchise center, but a clear step below the best of his generation. Will have a very nice career but will have fallen short of his exceptional junior status but I feel like it's precisely that status, ie. being very good from super early on and sort of "good enough" in the NHL will get him in. The cumulative numbers will be very respectable. But he's quite forgettable, not a legend of the game.
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I agree.

TheDoldrums said:
He’s been a Hart finalist twice. Finished second in points while on a bad team without any other offensive stars. He was definitely one of the best centres at one point.
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Come on, man.

Envision a documentary of the 2013 season and playoffs in your head.

Now do the same for the 2015 season and playoffs.

If you think Tavares is featured heavily, you're lying to yourself.
 
NVious said:
Personally I don't think other bad selections should mean he should get in, but I get it and think he'll get in, I just don't see him as a HOF player personally.
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Hawerchuk wasn't a bad selection. Similar to Tavares, he was an elite point producer during his prime but was overshadowed by some all time talents.
 
Voight said:
Hawerchuk wasn't a bad selection. Similar to Tavares, he was an elite point producer during his prime but was overshadowed by some all time talents.
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I was talking more about Anderson than Hawerchuk, but the difference even between him and Tavares is not only the raw numbers/peak, but also the fact that Tavares has so far failed spectacularly in Toronto which has a star studded lineup and they've not just failed at winning the cup, they've failed at making an even semi decent run with some horrendous collapses where Tavares was the captain. Hawerchuk not so much.

Hawerchuk also finished as playoff ppg scorer, Tavares is at .74 and will likely only go down. Hawerchuk was also ppg 12/15 playoffs and Tavares is ppg 1/9, his best run being a literal ppg run whereas Hawerchuk has 8 points in 4 games, 13 points in 10 games, 14 points 8 games
 
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JaegerDice said:
I dont think he’s particularly close, honestly.

I cant think of a time he was in consideration as one of the best centers in the game.
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He does have two Hart nominations. I think people are underselling how good he was at his peak.
 
2 seasons in top 10 scoring and incredibly consistent. League scoring took a shit during his prime, so I can't hold that against him. He'll get in with a weak class.
 
authentic said:
He does have two Hart nominations. I think people are underselling how good he was at his peak.
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People around here can't seem to decide on whether Hart voters are geniuses or idiots, based on previous results.
 
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